Burned by Religious Communities

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I did not say I didn’t believe you only that there are also 2 sides to every story. Only by hearing both sides can one make any kind of assessment. Let there be peace in your heart.
 
would that be the group that refused to accept the Bishop as the authority over them and instead had a lay group over them? I know of another group that had the same problem. In that particular association the Bishop was very generous in helping members adjust and get back on their feet.
 
Let’s take this out of the religious realm. Let’s say you were all patriotic and joined the army hoping to fight bad guys and save people in disasters. And your commander turned out to be a real jerk, and your assignment was to paint garbage cans. Bad, right? But didn’t you read that fine print in the recruitment letter where it said they could assign you to whatever task they wanted? Did they guarantee that your commander would be a noble hero?

Or business. You are recruited by a company you admire, you think the interviewers were wonderful people, and once again when you get there your boss is a jerk and you are assigned to do questionable activities (for example write deceptive ad copy).

Why should the religious life be any different?
 
CTuck said:
Also, there were promises made that were not kept.
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First of all, no communities should be making any promises to applicants. That, in itself, should be an immediate red flag.

Secondly, it sounds to me that you were not at a point in your discernment that you were ready to enter anywhere. A man doesn’t date a woman and constantly think about all the things that are not right about her. Rather, he quietly studies her and sees if she has the marks of a good wife. He’s not constantly bombarding her with questions or doubting her good nature.

It sounds to me like you did not enter with the mindset of “I’m going to try this and make it work if possible.” I believe this is the usual thought process, (or, “I’m going to stay forever!”). Rather, you questioned many things and never gave yourself time to settle into the life before asking questions. A priest friend of mine recommends that once you enter, “You stay until they kick you out.” Meaning, until it becomes obvious that is not where you are called. The communities may have wanted you to simply settle down to the life and become a part of it before you began questioning whether you should be somewhere else.

I just don’t think you were ready to enter.
 
They had already done that once, hence their move to Florida.

They were not associated with another religious order and because of their situation, no Bishop in another dioceses would accept them.

The Bishop ordered that all their assets, the monastery, be sold and the proceeds used to pay off the mortgage. Fact is, there was nothing left after paying off the mortgage and they are now history.

Jim
 
No, they accepted the Bishop and were perfectly fine being under obedience to him.

Fact is, they order, just three men, never grew. The two aspirants they got, left.

Jim
 
This reminds me of the story of John the Dwarf. When John the Dwarf entered the monastery his teacher planted a stick in the ground and he was told to water it every day. Every day John the Dwarf walked 12 miles to get enough water to water the stick. After three years the stick grew leaves. Flowers came forth and then there was fruit. John the Dwarf’s teacher brought the fruit to the church and said, “Behold the fruit of obedience.”
 
TechieGuy said:
Maybe you could try not pursuing a vocation for a while and see how you feel about things then
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I think that is a good idea. St. Paul, after all, spent three years in Arabia after his conversion. I’m guessing he was trying to figure it out.
 
MaryEstelle2 said:
I did not say I didn’t believe you only that there are also 2 sides to every story. Only by hearing both sides can one make any kind of assessment. Let there be peace in your heart.
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Thank you, but I’m not asking for an assessment. I’m asking if others have had similar experiences.
 
They can still exist. I think I know who you’re talking about. They can change their name, and begin as their own third order, and see if things progress from there.
 
Just curious…why would anybody choose to join a new order rather than an ancient well established order? Seems like you add risk by choosing a new order.
 
Erikaspirit16 said:
Let’s take this out of the religious realm.
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Hi. Thing is, while I don’t think all analogies fail, they do with regards to the ones you used. Joining a community to discern a vocation is not like signing a contract with the military or being hired by a company for employment. There is a lot of time that passes before final vows wherein both the community and the individual discern if the call is authentic.

Perhaps I can give a more accurate analogy: Let’s say you were looking to send your kids to a good school and found one that interested you. You spoke with the principal and staff who made many promises about the excellence of their school. You expressed your interest and enrolled your kids . But after the school year began you noticed things that concerned you. Wouldn’t you want those concerns addressed? More so, if the faculty persistently ignored you, blamed you, and threatened that if you took your kids elsewhere they (your children) would probably go to Hell, my goodness, how long would you wait to take them out?
Erikaspirit16 said:
Why should the religious life be any different?
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Because just as lack of freedom can invalidate marriage vows, so also can it invalidate religious vows. Vows are not contracts, and your analogies would be more appropriate if we were discussing religious life after vows. But thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut.
 
Religious life is a calling to service. There are many established orders out there, but not all cater to all ages. Most want those under age 35.

All of my aspirants are either older than that, or have a disability that precludes them from active service. Going into a new community does require extra grace, particularly a communion with the Holy Spirit that enables one to visualize where the group should go, and work together to develop policy without causing division.

In short, the founder has received an inspiration, and God sends others into service with them. They need a good business model, though, so that they don’t accumulate debt. They also need to begin as their own laity, so that they can relate to the laity who are attracted to them.
 
Cloisters said:
Most want those under age 35.
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…which doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. When you are a young man, it is hard to understand anything about anything including yourself.

Also, I think of the Jesuits…I mean Ignatius formed the Jesuits when he was almost 50. Many Jesuits join when they are older than 35…now and historically.
 
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JHFamily said:
A man doesn’t date a woman and constantly think about all the things that are not right about her. Rather, he quietly studies her and sees if she has the marks of a good wife. He’s not constantly bombarding her with questions or doubting her good nature.
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Friend, I’m sorry if I gave you that impression. But even in that scenario, what happens when you find things that concern you about this woman you’ve been seeing? Do you bring it up? After all, isn’t dating discernment for marriage? And what if she ignores you, blames you for being fault finding, and threatens that you will probably not be happy if you leave her? Furthermore, what if you seriously get the impression through all this that she really wants to marry you for your assets? Is the onus of guilt really on you for not being ready? That seems a bit unreasonable.
JHFamily said:
It sounds to me like you did not enter with the mindset of “I’m going to try this and make it work if possible.” I believe this is the usual thought process, (or, “I’m going to stay forever!”). Rather, you questioned many things and never gave yourself time to settle into the life before asking questions.
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I don’t think anyone enters a process of discernment having already made up their mind. That wouldn’t make sense. I saw those people come and go. Also, that’s a broad assumption you’ve made about my disposition and theirs.
JHFamily said:
A priest friend of mine recommends that once you enter, “You stay until they kick you out.” Meaning, until it becomes obvious that is not where you are called.
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The latter part here is correct, though not everyone is given the same kind or degree of clarity. The statement from your friend is mistaken and has been used to pressure people, though I don’t discount it as a way God uses, even often, to direct people. That being said, it is not a stand-alone principle of discernment. I mean, when was the last time you heard someone say they were forced out of the single state?
JHFamily said:
The communities may have wanted you to simply settle down to the life and become a part of it before you began questioning whether you should be somewhere else.
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In this you have only my word to go off of, and I’m sure some them would give you a different story, except the ones who have later apologized to me for these things. With my second community, the people who were telling me to settle down were made to leave by the local ordinary for precisely what I’ve said from the beginning. With my first community, I was with them three years trying to settle in. When is it enough?
 
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JHFamily said:
A priest friend of mine recommends that once you enter, “You stay until they kick you out.”
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This is concerning. They’ll never kick out a sane competent man. There has to be some time initially in these orders for genuine discernment.
 
I’ll add another thought. I’ve personally known two ex-nuns. One is a good friend, one was my boss–and she’s written a book. I’ve also read a few books by ex-nuns.

What strikes me is all these people (I’m not suggesting ctuck is among them–I have no idea) are SHOCKED when they are faced with certain elements of religious life. For example, obedience.

To use another analogy, it’s like someone applying to West Point, getting accepted, and then being SHOCKED that they have to wear a uniform, turn out the lights at specified hours, and be subject to military discipline. Come on–you knew what you were signing up for. Or you certainly should have!
 
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