Burned by Religious Communities

[CTuck]

Charity demands that you blame yourself first.

I’m sorry, and I really don’t mean to be contentious, but I think this is mistaken. Charity demands that I will someone else’s good and, in this case, refrain from making rash judgments about someone else’s intentions. Jesus didn’t say, “If your brother sins against you, assume it’s your fault.” He said, “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone.”

Please don’t take this the wrong way, I greatly appreciate your encouragement and (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[Cloisters]

They have a right to associate. Going to another diocese isn’t that difficult. They should have put in a request for publicity with the Institute on Religious Life, and see if another diocese would take them. They could have grieved this to Rome, too. They absolutely, positively have a right to associate.

 

[guanophore]

To frame it another way, has anyone else ever had the experience of a superior, formator, or vocations director try to manipulate them to join the priesthood or religious life?

This is not uncommon throughout Christendom. There have been many superiors who are self centered and even cruel.

God writes straight with crooked lines, and He is able to work through even those who are unholy. The way to discern is by the fruit, both yours, and theirs. If this experience was formative for you and moved you forward in your walk with God, then God’s intention was fulfilled. If their methods were self centered, God still used it for your benefit. You can trust God to work through whoever you are submitted to at any given time.

Romans 8:28 “We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him,who are called according to his purpose.”

Do not ever shrink back from trusting God because certain persons have lost your trust. He will work it for your good, regardless.

 

[guanophore]

What I meant with regard to your question was that they didn’t want just anybody, but the ones they wanted they tried to convince to join irrespective of that person’s concerns, ability, or overall real vocation. It was much more of a “join and stay” than a “come and see.”

Does that make sense?

Not really. If you feel called, why would you say that your concerns, ability and real vocation were not relevant?

The thing that hangs me up is that I would prefer not to go through all that again. It was awful.

God allows us to experience things that are “awful” to help us grow in holiness. He gives us the grace to transcend all that is “awful”.

I find it hard to know when you can trust people in the Church to communicate God’s will in these matters.

You can always trust God. If a person has made a mistake, He will write straight with crooked lines.

 

[CTuck]

Guanophore,

Thank you for sharing with me. I agree that trusting God’s providence is the only sure thing in this.

f you feel called, why would you say that your concerns, ability and real vocation were not relevant?

Without getting into specifics, I did feel like I may be called, but I had developed some concerns about the communities, about my ability to live the life, and I plainly wanted help discerning with no strings attached. My experience was that no one was listening to me, that they had their own agenda to convince me not to leave. I may be mistaken, but some of my concerns seemed pretty important. It felt like such a taboo thing to mention that you might be called elsewhere. Should I feel guilty for not being okay with this?

 

[guanophore]

I did feel like I may be called, but I had developed some concerns about the communities, about my ability to live the life, and I plainly wanted help discerning with no strings attached.

When one joins a religious community, here are always “strings attached”. One is first a monk, and maybe then, a priest.

My experience was that no one was listening to me, that they had their own agenda to convince me not to leave.

God allowed you to experience this as part of your vocational journey.

I may be mistaken, but some of my concerns seemed pretty important. It felt like such a taboo thing to mention that you might be called elsewhere. Should I feel guilty for not being okay with this?

Above all, one must follow his own conscience. God will guide you where you need to be. For all you know, you are called to be a priest for a diocese, rather than part of a religious community. Where He guides, He will provide.

 

[po18guy]

If you have not, please consider reading The Imitation of Christ by Thomas á Kempis.

You sound bitter, and that can certainly impede your spiritual progress. Do you have an excellent spiritual advisor?

 

[phil19034]

Have you considered the diocesan priesthood?

 

[Gorgias]

What I meant with regard to your question was that they didn’t want just anybody, but the ones they wanted they tried to convince to join irrespective of that person’s concerns, ability, or overall real vocation. It was much more of a “join and stay” than a “come and see.”

Does that make sense?

Yep.

But… if they were persuaded that a person really did have a vocation to their community, then even if the person himself was still discerning, shouldn’t their role be precisely to help the person come to the same conclusion they had?

 

[MaryEstelle2]

Every story has two sides. Thus far I have only read one side. You didn’t say if you left on your own or were dismissed. Unless a promise is carved into stone the community was not really obligated to keep the promise. If a community was so bad the superior and formation director and other sisters were themselves asked to leave I am sure that it would have been news in the Catholic Community. I believe the accused has a right to answer any complaints or wrongdoings, if possable. I would actually like to hear the ‘other side.’

 

[CTuck]

You sound bitter,

You’re right, I do sound bitter. I mean that sincerely. But please accept that I am only trying to relay an experience of being hurt and trying to find a way to connect with others who may have experienced the same so as to work through it. I’m not trying to badmouth anyone.

Thank you for suggesting A Kempis, and yes, I do have a director who knows my situation well.

 

[CTuck]

When one joins a religious community, here are always “strings attached”.

I don’t think we mean the same thing, but I may be wrong. I meant that when someone comes to discern a vocation, the people helping them aren’t supposed to be looking for their own personal gain from any given conclusion. If your spiritual director started concentrating on what he or she could get from you…do you see how that is problematic? It’s not love, it’s using someone.

 

[CTuck]

But… if they were persuaded that a person really did have a vocation to their community, then even if the person himself was still discerning, shouldn’t their role be precisely to help the person come to the same conclusion they had?

Absolutely. Vocations are gifts from God. But the keyword here is “help,” not coerce or manipulate. How could those methods ever communicate God’s loving counsel to embrace something so awesome?

 

[jack63]

Interesting thread…

Another person asked this…why not just a diocesan priest?

I’m not saying you’re wrong by the way, but where is the balance…this is not rhetorical…an answer would be helpful…I’ve thought about approaching an order…but I’m concerned once I enter the novitiate you’d be under lots of pressure not to leave.

From the order’s point of view, they are putting their time, money, and energy into you. I see that though. If you’ve been there for three years, who can blame them for wanting a result (i.e. you become a priest). Where is the balance?

 

[po18guy]

God’s plans are not our plans. Even Steinbeck wrote of the “best laid plans of mice and men.”

Your solution is to take the most difficult road: Love those whom you believe have wronged you and fervently pray for them. This works each and every time it is tried. The only problem: it is not tried often enough.

EDIT: And not to pray that they “come around” and grant you your desire. That would be your will and not necessarily thwir or God’s. God may have a completely different desire. That can mean a lifetime of self-denial and trials. ExCRUCiating (from 'cross") and agonizing discernment.

 

[CTuck]

Every story has two sides. Thus far I have only read one side.

I don’t want to quarrel, but I believe you could at least do me the courtesy of considering that I may be telling the truth.

I left of my own choice, but after and under a lot of pressure to get me to stay.

As far as sharing specifics, I don’t think that would be appropriate. I actually do care for them. All you have is my word. I’m not asking for a condemnation, only some help through sharing with others.

I am very grateful for all of your (name removed by moderator)ut and encouragement. It has helped me really think this through.

 

[SonofJoseph]

I completely understand your difficulty with trust. I have had a similar experience, having entered with a community for what would have been six months. I was also very subtly manipulated (intentional or not, it still happened) and I ended up leaving a month into it. I truly felt like they lied to me. Before entering it was all about discerning Gods will, wether that was with them or not but that alllllchanged real quick once I “committed.” There was no talk at all about what if God hadn’t called me there. I couldn’t bring it up and have a serious conversation with my superiors. Anyway, after I left I told God I needed a year to deal with this, to heal, before I could continue discerning my vocation.

It just so happened that almost exactly a year later I began seriouslyfiscerning the priesthood and now I’m heading to seminary in August, thanks be to God.

I’m going into it a little afraid of the obedience thing I guess on a subconscious level. I am not so naive anymore and heck, the formators here know what they are doing considering I actually had a very thorough application process and they know every detail about my life now. My former religious community didn’t require an application or anything (they were a very new community).

Anyway, I don’t know if that’s helped at all. I guess what I mean to show you by it all is that it’s okay for those trust issues to be there. I especially for the first month or so had a Spiritual PTAD, I didn’t want to even look at a Tabernacle because I felt soooo betrayed by God. He understands, and He desires to heal you. He is so good. Perhaps our experience will help others in the future. All things work together for the good of those who love God Peace.

 

[CTuck]

Where is the balance?

Thank you for your sincerity. I can’t pretend to know what it’s like to be a superior, and so my opinion is just that—my opinion. I can understand that trying to weigh out what’s best for the individual against a prospective asset, or loss, to the community must be difficult. After all, as superior you’re responsible for the wellbeing of both. But even though there may be these kinds of losses, if it comes from a genuine trust in the same God who provided those means, it is well founded. I spoke about this with a founder and former superior of a, now, well known community. He said, “While it’s always sad to see them go, we try to look at it as a way God used us to serve the Church by giving the men who leave a good formation and the like.” That seems balanced to me.

I am certainly not advocating an all-inclusive approach to give people free education, room and board. That would be ridiculous.

 

[CTuck]

Perhaps our experience will help others in the future.

Reading your post was reassuring beyond words. Thank you so much. It was much of my experience verbatim.
Finally! I’m not alone.

 

[TechieGuy]

Maybe you could try not pursuing a vocation for a while and see how you feel about things then