Byzantine Catholic Bishops at charismatic style Mass

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I honestly don’t see what was so bad about that. Not saying it’s the best liturgy I’ve ever seen, but I didn’t think it was blasphemous. The dancing came after the final blessing, so it didn’t occur during the liturgy. I don’t really have a problem with a celebratory mood at the end of a liturgy; I think that’s appropriate- much more so than a somber one. Now during the prayers and the epiclesis- that’s a different story. There is a time to be somber and reverent, and a time to celebrate.

Ever heard of David dancing before the Ark?
 
I don’t think it was blasphemous, their intention was not to blaspheme, but it was irreverent imo 😦

this is a Catholic Mass… youtube.com/watch?v=AOonGwqMorM

I think the biggest issue for me is how they consecrated the Eucharist in the glass vessels, and how the Eucharist was given out so casually… I’m sure they know it’s the Body and Blood of Christ, so why not treat it with the utmost reverence and respect? At my parish, the architecture is kind of modern but the priest is really orthodox and all the vessels used in the liturgy are golden. That emphasizes the spiritual reality…

I don’t think this video is how the Mass was meant to be 😦
 
Monica4316 said:
I can’t believe they used those glass pitchers and baskets for the Eucharist. Doesn’t it say in the rubrics it should be gold or silver or another precious metal (NOT glass)? So disrespectful of Our Lord!! 😦 and the ‘dancing’ around the altar… :rolleyes:
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Certain other “precious” materials are permitted. Ebony is specifically mentioned as permitted in dioceses of the US, at least when properly sealed. Jade is also permitted, despite its fragility. Gold, Gold-lined silver, and Gold-lined sculpted pewter are all acceptable; gold-plated brass is not uncommonly used.

US GIRM:III. Sacred Vessels
  1. Among the requisites for the celebration of Mass, the sacred vessels are held in special honor, especially the chalice and paten, in which the bread and wine are offered and consecrated, and from which they are consumed.
  2. Sacred vessels are to be made from precious metal. If they are made from metal that rusts or from a metal less precious than gold, then ordinarily they should be gilded on the inside.
  3. In the Dioceses of the United States of America, sacred vessels may also be made from other solid materials that, according to the common estimation in each region, are precious, for example, ebony or other hard woods, provided that such materials are suited to sacred use and do not easily break or deteriorate. This applies to all vessels which hold the hosts, such as the paten, the ciborium, the pyx, the monstrance, and other things of this kind.
    (Color Mine)
 
Aramis said:
Certain other “precious” materials are permitted. Ebony is specifically mentioned as permitted in dioceses of the US, at least when properly sealed. Jade is also permitted, despite its fragility. Gold, Gold-lined silver, and Gold-lined sculpted pewter are all acceptable; gold-plated brass is not uncommonly used.

US GIRM:III. Sacred Vessels

…
329. In the Dioceses of the United States of America, sacred vessels may also be made from other solid materials that, according to the common estimation in each region, are precious, for example, ebony or other hard woods, provided that such materials are suited to sacred use and do not easily break or deteriorate. This applies to all vessels which hold the hosts, such as the paten, the ciborium, the pyx, the monstrance, and other things of this kind.(Color Mine)
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Glass does tend to break easily. 🙂
 
Ouch. Has anyone attempted to write the Eastern Catholic bishops for a response as to why they participated?
 
sidbrown said:
What term would you use to describe the Mass?
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Abusive! Not charismatic. My wife grew up in (and we were married from) a charismatic parish and I attended a charismatic college. Never, in either of those places - both of which are considered foundational to and centers of the charismatic renewal - did I experience anything like what is shown in that video. Most of the people that I know who consider themselves charismatic would’ve walked out. So the only term that I can think of to describe this Mass is “abusive.”

P.S. I also like the term “California style.” 😃
 
Phillip_Rolfes said:
P.S. I also like the term “California style.” 😃
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As a native Californian (and current California resident), I must stand up for my state and say I have never attended such a Mass, even through 12 years of Catholic school in the 70s and 80s.

Elizabeth
 
To the above post: my apologies! I retract my statement. :blushing:
 
Does anyone know the name of the Congregation in Rome that is responsible for the Liturgy? I think I’m going to e-mail them a few links.
 
momor said:
Does anyone know the name of the Congregation in Rome that is responsible for the Liturgy? I think I’m going to e-mail them a few links.
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They’re probably already aware of the situation.
 
5Loaves said:
As I mentioned in my previous post, I am grateful for the EC clergy who attended the conference. They provided an important evangelization to many who had not previous exposure to the Divine Liturgy and to EC clergy. I’m sure my DRE wasn’t the only one deeply affected by this exposure to the East.

I hope this post quoted here helps. It was posted on another forum and as you can see the poster gives permission to share it. (I specifically named this forum in asking him to post it here.) The bold emphasis is mine not his.
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Thanks for posting the quote 5Loaves 🙂 It was very enlightening!
 
My Byzantine Eparchy(Phoenix) and my parish, St. Melany’s was an active participant in the LA Congress. The Eparchy had a booth at the Congress and one of our parishoners reported the following account.

*Last year, Bishop decided the eparchy would have a vendor booth at the conference, to disseminate information on the Eastern Catholic Churches to the conference attendees. Bishop Gerald, one of our Basilian sisters, the pastor of my local parish, and myself went. We had a booth with many books on Eastern Christianity, plus icons, prayer ropes, etc. We also had lots of free literature about the history and spirituality of the Eastern Catholic Churches. Over the course of the 3 days, we had the opportunity to talk to hundreds of people who stopped by our booth. Some of these conversations were of real depth. Also, Fr Pipta from our church in San Diego gave a talk on Eastern Catholicism at one of the sessions on the conference schedule.

At the end of the conference, I did (hesitantly) attend the concluding Mass. It was pretty much the same as what they seem to have done this year. I have very little post VII RC experience, and so I was stunned and even horrified by what I saw. I cried for a bit as I sat there. And, yes, in some ways, it seemed very much like a Protestant mega-church service. To some of us, it felt more like a performance than a worship service. However, at the moment of the consecration, I understood that Our Lord was present, just as He is in the Byzantine liturgy I so love. For me, the form of that Mass was tragic and caused me great sorrow, but I believe that it is still a Mass.

For this year’s conference, Bishop decided we would again have a booth, and the eparchy was also able to arrange to have a Byzantine liturgy on the conference schedule. Bishop Gerald concelebrated the liturgy with several priests of the eparchy. We had deacons, servers, choir, etc. We didn’t know how many people would show up, but 1200 conference attendees came to our liturgy in a transformed hotel ballroom! Fr Rankin, the pastor of St Melany’s here in Tucson, gave a talk to the attendees just prior to the start of the liturgy, explaining what they were about to see, and giving them some background and context for it.

I wasn’t able to go this year, but when I inventoried the books that came back (our entire little bookstore had gone on the road to the conference), I discovered that we had sold almost every copy of every title we had that related to the Byzantine liturgy. I’m sure this was a direct result of people having attended our liturgy, as last year, not a single title on Byzantine liturgy sold.

I know that last year many of the people who came by our booth expressed how glad they were that there was an Eastern Catholic presence at the conference. And many catechists who came by took materials to share with their students. *

Seems like it was a great opportunity for my Bishop to show the beauty of the Eastern Church.
 
ByzCath08 said:
My Byzantine Eparchy(Phoenix) and my parish, St. Melany’s was an active participant in the LA Congress. The Eparchy had a booth at the Congress and one of our parishoners reported the following account.

Seems like it was a great opportunity for my Bishop to show the beauty of the Eastern Church.
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That is the account I posted in #38. Worth repeating 🙂
 
Formosus said:
This Mass looks to be more akin to the ceremonies of Pagan Greece and Rome then to Christian worship (and I imagine the pagan Romans did it a lot more stylishly at that…).
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I’m sorry to interrupt but I have a PhD with a specialization in Greek and Roman religion and no, it really doesn’t. The space is completely wrong, the gestures are not similar, the clothing is not similar, and for crying out loud no one is sacrificing an animal.

Maybe it’s because I’m Episcopalian and I know how bad it can get, but this doesn’t seem that awful to me.
 
Did anyone else notice that the non-clerical participants (dancers et al) were barefoot? To me anyway, that calls to mind pagan ceremonies.
 
momor said:
Did anyone else notice that the non-clerical participants (dancers et al) were barefoot? To me anyway, that calls to mind pagan ceremonies.
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Yeah, I did. 😉 When one thinks about it, though, and considers the whole performance, the I guess it was lucky that it was only their feet! 😛
 
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