Cafeteria Catholic?

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Teresa9:
I am amazed, what a spiteful thread! Of course there will be peopel who don’t accept all of the churches teachings, this usually doesn’t come out of a hatred for catholic law or a profound urge just to flout it, it comes because the person is struggling with a certain law, it is especially hard for them. We are called to see the good always, we are called to be compassionate and encourage, not sit upon high and judge when YOU yourself are a sinner. God Bless you all and much love and peace to you all xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Teresa, with respect I disagree with you.

First, this is not at all a spiteful thread. There are a few contributors to it who may have written some things they shouldn’t, but the thread is not in the least spiteful.

Second, while we are called to see the good (when there is good - it’s no use trying to see good where there is none) and be compassionate, BUT, we are also called to inform people when their actions or their beliefs are wrong. The fact that we are sinners too does not release us from that obligation. In fact, it is false compassion to tolerate wrong, and leave people to blindly walk over the precipice.

Thirdly (and lastly) while some may, indeed, be “struggling with a certain law” this is not at all the case for many. I, too, was once a “Cafeteria Catholic” and I was not at all struggling. I had, rather, made up my mind - about birth control and women priests, mainly. And, I fully believed that I was a god Catholic. I had, in other words, elected myself Pope!! And there are many others like that.

Thanks be to God, He shook me and awakened me to the truth. Since that happened I find no difficulty whatever in totally accepting whatever the Church tells us has been revealed by God, and in accepting whatever disciplines the Church holds to be right. I also have found that I have grown in my understanding of these truths. Truly, we must believe and then understand!

There are, indeed, Cafeteria Catholics who have taken on the role of Pope for themselves, deciding for themselves what they will and will not believe, yet still call themselves Catholic.
 
Joan M:
Teresa, with respect I disagree with you.

First, this is not at all a spiteful thread. There are a few contributors to it who may have written some things they shouldn’t, but the thread is not in the least spiteful.

Second, while we are called to see the good (when there is good - it’s no use trying to see good where there is none) and be compassionate, BUT, we are also called to inform people when their actions or their beliefs are wrong. The fact that we are sinners too does not release us from that obligation. In fact, it is false compassion to tolerate wrong, and leave people to blindly walk over the precipice.

Thirdly (and lastly) while some may, indeed, be “struggling with a certain law” this is not at all the case for many. I, too, was once a “Cafeteria Catholic” and I was not at all struggling. I had, rather, made up my mind - about birth control and women priests, mainly. And, I fully believed that I was a god Catholic. I had, in other words, elected myself Pope!! And there are many others like that.

Thanks be to God, He shook me and awakened me to the truth. Since that happened I find no difficulty whatever in totally accepting whatever the Church tells us has been revealed by God, and in accepting whatever disciplines the Church holds to be right. I also have found that I have grown in my understanding of these truths. Truly, we must believe and then understand!

There are, indeed, Cafeteria Catholics who have taken on the role of Pope for themselves, deciding for themselves what they will and will not believe, yet still call themselves Catholic.
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Dear friend

They still call themselves Catholic because they are, they attend Mass, they seek Jesus and they try as best as they can at the particular point of conversion in their faith.

Whoever exalts themselves shall be last and whoever humbles themself shall be first.

Whoever sees themselves as a sinner and worse than all of those around them , is closer to God than the one who looks at all the others and thinks of themself as less of a sinner than the others

This ‘shaking’ you had was a conversion in faith, therefore you are probably further along the conversion road than others and some are further along than you, this doesn’t give room on any to amount to snobbery within faith. Faith in Jesus is a lifetime conversion and a lifetime journey and people differ at the parts of the road they have reached.

I left posting on this thread and again, I’m leaving posting on this particular thread

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa.
 
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seeker63:
I should add, so you don’t think me a complete monster, that the views I hold on abortion hinge on my belief that life begins at birth. I don’t know of anyone, for instance, who gives a name to or a funeral for a stillbirth.

The best I can do is ask that you pray for me that I see things otherwise.
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I’m not a scientist, though I understand that they have proven that life begins at conception. If a person believes that it is wrong to take any life (human or otherwise), then, in order to be morally consistent, that person must be against abortion.

The scientific question is whether HUMAN life begins at conception. Personally, I can’t see how you can argue that the human embryo is anything other than human. There isn’t the slightest chance that this embryo will develop into an antelope, a toadstool, or a rhinoceros. The only potential for this embryo is to that of humanity. Thus the reference to it as human.

Let me toss out this argument, and see what you think. Let’s presume, for the sake of argument, that science can prove conclusively that an embryo is human. Consider the ramifications of that proof. Looking back at over thirty years of legalized abortion, we have cooperated (either actively or passively) in the grandest incident of genocide in the history of humanity. The atrocities of Stalin, Hitler, and Herod the Great would look miniscule in comparison.

Can you justify supporting and materially cooperating in such an atrocity? If we use ignorance of the facts to excuse our actions or inactions, we are philosophically, morally, and ethically wrong. We have an obligation to oppose abortion if we know that human life begins at conception because then, by definition, abortion is murder. We also have an obligation to oppose abortion if we don’t know for sure whether human life begins at conception, because we don’t know for sure whether a murder is being committed.

Which is the bigger crime: a) forcing mothers to have children they don’t want; or b) killing children?
 
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Teresa9:
Dear friend

They still call themselves Catholic because they are, they attend Mass, they seek Jesus and they try as best as they can at the particular point of conversion in their faith.

…

Teresa.
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This is where Teresa and I disagree. It is one thing to struggle, it entirely different to reject. Rejecting a single article of faith is heresy, no matter that we may still attend Mass, etc. I was a heretic, even though I thought myself a “good Catholic”.
 
Joan M:
This is where Teresa and I disagree. It is one thing to struggle, it entirely different to reject. Rejecting a single article of faith is heresy, no matter that we may still attend Mass, etc. I was a heretic, even though I thought myself a “good Catholic”.
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Dear friend

Concern yourself with your own salvation before you care to pick and poke at another’s heart and soul

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
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Teresa9:
Dear friend

Concern yourself with your own salvation before you care to pick and poke at another’s heart and soul

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
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Teresa:
Remember that one of the spiritual works of mercy is to admonish the sinner. We’re called to concern ourselves with our own salvation first, true, but that doesn’t mean we must keep silent when we see someone doing something that could destroy his soul. What is a truly loving thing – letting someone speed unhindered along the road to hell or trying to turn them from that route?

You also forget that charity doesn’t necessarily entail being all “nicey-nice.” Sometimes the most charitable thing to do for someone is to slap 'em upside the head (of course, I hope you understand I don’t mean that literally ;)). Do you have children? Don’t you have to yell at them and even punish them at times? Surely you don’t say, “Well, I won’t say anything because I need to concern myself with being the person I’m called to be first,” do you?

I’m sorry, Teresa, but the type of charity you’re saying that everyone here should show is false charity.
 
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DavidJoseph:
Teresa:
Remember that one of the spiritual works of mercy is to admonish the sinner. We’re called to concern ourselves with our own salvation first, true, but that doesn’t mean we must keep silent when we see someone doing something that could destroy his soul. What is a truly loving thing – letting someone speed unhindered along the road to hell or trying to turn them from that route?

You also forget that charity doesn’t necessarily entail being all “nicey-nice.” Sometimes the most charitable thing to do for someone is to slap 'em upside the head (of course, I hope you understand I don’t mean that literally ;)). Do you have children? Don’t you have to yell at them and even punish them at times? Surely you don’t say, “Well, I won’t say anything because I need to concern myself with being the person I’m called to be first,” do you?

I’m sorry, Teresa, but the type of charity you’re saying that everyone here should show is false charity.
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David ,Just remember everything we do has to be in Love. We are to be kind, gentle ,not rude,it is not prone to anger. These are the qualities of Gods Spirit.That is how God wants us to address others. 👍
 
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meglin:
Our Catholic faith is more than words. When we profess to being Catholic, we must submit ourselves – body and soul to Jesus Christ and understand that Pope John Paul II is the Vicar of Christ.
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I do not believe that I am a cafeteria Catholic.
However, I do knowingly do things that are contrary to the teaching.
The reason is because at one time I guess I was one. Now however, I am much more knowledgable and have made a commitment to follow the will of God and consequently his churches teachings. The problem is my wife is not there yet. In those situations where my actions were to be strictly per the faith AND would affect her AND I believe that the impact on her or my family would be very harmfull: I will do what I believe is best for my family. Even if it violates the letter of church law. I am confident that in time, with prayer, example, and discusssion, my wife and I will be in full aknowledgement and compliance.

However, I suspect that I am really not rejecting teaching in acceptance or action. I think its rather like the idea that it is not a sin to steal food from somone with plenty to keep my family from starving to death.
 
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DavidJoseph:
Teresa:
Remember that one of the spiritual works of mercy is to admonish the sinner. We’re called to concern ourselves with our own salvation first, true, but that doesn’t mean we must keep silent when we see someone doing something that could destroy his soul. What is a truly loving thing – letting someone speed unhindered along the road to hell or trying to turn them from that route?

You also forget that charity doesn’t necessarily entail being all “nicey-nice.” Sometimes the most charitable thing to do for someone is to slap 'em upside the head (of course, I hope you understand I don’t mean that literally ;)). Do you have children? Don’t you have to yell at them and even punish them at times? Surely you don’t say, “Well, I won’t say anything because I need to concern myself with being the person I’m called to be first,” do you?

I’m sorry, Teresa, but the type of charity you’re saying that everyone here should show is false charity.
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Dearest Dave

Thank you for your post. I certainly do show my child the right things to do, but I don’t yell at her or hit her. I withdraw her benefits in life like videos and treats. I don’t give her an unreasonable hard time nor do I make her feel like an unsuccessful human being.

I love her and tell her why she needs to act a certain way and think a certain way. I teach her the faith, yes, but for all my good attempts and hard work in trying to show her the faith and Jesus, I cannot control her and I also respect she is on her own journey in faith with Jesus and God, that her faith will deepen and blossom over-time. That although I am giving her the full benefit of the Truth, she may not come to a deeper understanding of this until the time God’s graces open them up inside her and they grow and blossom into the next stage of her faith. This is called conversion within faith and as we grow and our personalities develop, as events happen in life (good and bad) and as we mature, so can our faith, just like our personalities do. If you have kids yourself, you will know that you are not the same man you were before you had them, that you have changed as a result.

If you could examine the hearts and minds of all the people within your church, you would see people at all different stages and understanding in their faiths, some people more developed in some areas than some in others. Faith is a continual growth in Jesus. True there are some people who have no interest in growing, well not at this moment, but who knows what will happen in their life to make them have an interest!

Therefore it is right and good to show someone the Truth and the Lord Jesus and pass on your knowledge, but you can pass it on all you like, you cannot engrain it into someone’s heart until they are ready and their faith deepens enough to do this. Therefore love them without reserve or judgement and help them all you can, show them the love, kindness and mercy of Christ, do this also for yourself. But please don’t admonish them because God has no favourites and loves all people equally, therefore so should you. If someone cannot undertsnad something, maybe it is beyond their capability to do so, to whom much is given, much is expected…this doesn’t pertain just to material wealth, but spiritual wealth also.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
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SPOKENWORD:
David ,Just remember everything we do has to be in Love. We are to be kind, gentle ,not rude,it is not prone to anger. These are the qualities of Gods Spirit.That is how God wants us to address others. 👍
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I never said that everything we do didn’t have to be in love. But there IS such a thing as righteous anger. The problem, however, is that you seem to think I said it’s ok to holler at someone and tell them how evil they are. I said no such thing. But that doesn’t mean we can’t tell the truth even if the truth is hard for another person to hear. It doesn’t mean we can’t be stern either.
 
I try to accept all of the Church’s teaching, including her oft ignored social teachings.
 
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meglin:
Our Catholic faith is more than words. When we profess to being Catholic, we must submit ourselves – body and soul to Jesus Christ and understand that Pope John Paul II is the Vicar of Christ.
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well, I guess that’s why they are liberals and called CAFETERIA CATHOLICS: THEY PICK AND CHOOSE AS IF IN A RESTUARANT: smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/3/3_2_110v.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/7/7_12_2.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/7/7_12_1.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/7/7_12_6.gif
 
St. Louis:
Fortunately now I am trying to adhere to all tenents of the faith. Unfortunately it took me about 35 years to wake and understand that there is more to life than making money and acquiring STUFF. I had every opportunity growing up to know my faith but for whatever reason it never took hold. I see the same type attitude in many of my catholic friends. Cafeteria catholicism is a major problem.
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A delayed response, but nonetheless a response.

It took me MORE than 35 years to be transformed into being a truly devoted Catholic and ALL her teachings. I believe God is a forgiving God and has accepted my repentence for being disobedient in many areas. I am now a very happy person and I love my Catholic faith with my whole heart. I don’t know why it took me so long. I, too, see the same type attitude in my many Catholic friends and I can only pray for their conversion. God gave me the time here on earth to “get it together” and I thank Him every day for His blessings and grace.
 
I love our Church, I love myself - often I love myself more than the church. Pray for me, a sinner.
 
I like to think of myself as a cafeteria Catholic. However, I like everything on the menu and I don’t mind over-eating.
 
 
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bernie:
Are you confusing the Catholic church with God? Only God is perfect. I guess if you think the Catholic Church is perfect, then it is your God…?

…Bernie :bowdown:
www.FreeGoodNews.com
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You obviously have not learned what Catholics believe and teach. Perhaps you are just missunderstanding Catholic Faith. Hopefully you will keep an open mind and learn from others here what the Church is and teaches.

God Bless,
 
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DavidJoseph:
Teresa:
Remember that one of the spiritual works of mercy is to admonish the sinner. We’re called to concern ourselves with our own salvation first, true, but that doesn’t mean we must keep silent when we see someone doing something that could destroy his soul. What is a truly loving thing – letting someone speed unhindered along the road to hell or trying to turn them from that route?

You also forget that charity doesn’t necessarily entail being all “nicey-nice.” Sometimes the most charitable thing to do for someone is to slap 'em upside the head (of course, I hope you understand I don’t mean that literally ;)). Do you have children? Don’t you have to yell at them and even punish them at times? Surely you don’t say, “Well, I won’t say anything because I need to concern myself with being the person I’m called to be first,” do you?

I’m sorry, Teresa, but the type of charity you’re saying that everyone here should show is false charity.
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What you say here makes me think of a quote by Pope John XXIII-

“See everything, overlook a great deal, correct a little.”
 
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seeker63:
I should add, so you don’t think me a complete monster, that the views I hold on abortion hinge on my belief that life begins at birth. I don’t know of anyone, for instance, who gives a name to or a funeral for a stillbirth.

The best I can do is ask that you pray for me that I see things otherwise.
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I do. His name is Michael and he is my brother who was still born. He was given a Catholic funeral with a priest officiating…

I think what you need to consider is the biology and science concerning a pre-born human child. I have carried 4 of them and believe me they are very much alive. Human life starts at conception. That is not just a religious belief but a scientific fact.

I will pray for you. I think you just need to do a little more soul searching in this area.
 
This thread has wandered into a Theology of the Body discussion and is now closed.

God Bless,
 
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