Cafeteria Catholic?

  • Thread starter Thread starter meglin
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
It’s never been my intention to make this into an abortion thread or to rile anyone, so if you’d like to discuss that topic with me specifically and explain your side of it, please e-mail me. Again, I’m looking for enlightenment, not attacks. I’ve got enough self-loathing as it is. Otherwise, from here on I’ll just keep strictly on the “Cafeteria Catholic” topic.

Thanks.
 
40.png
bernie:
Can anyone really believe that if you skip Mass to attend church with a Protestant friend-- that it is a grave & mortal sin, enough to lose your slavation over (unless you repent?)?
…Bernie
NO
 
The term “Cafeteria Catholic” is frequently used as an epithet by some to include those who have the temerity to question any point of doctrine or moral teaching of the Church. It is at best an uncharitable label.

One of the distinguishing marks of many a user of this label or of many Catholics is a very unattractive arrogance in their attitudes toward those who disagree with them.

I have no problem with the Church as the only repository of religious truth. If I did not think so I would not remain a Catholic. But I do not think this justifies contempt on my part for those (including, perhaps, some fellow Catholics) who have trouble with this.

For whatever reason, God has not chosen to give the gift of faith to all people. After almost 2,000 years only about a sixth of mankind has accepted the Catholic Church and I find it hard to believe that that is mainly due to the perverse refusal of the other five billion beople on earth.

I feel gifted and privileged to be in the Church. I do not feel as if I am a member of a triumphalist procession heading for heaven, but rather like an inquiring pilgrim seeking the truth. True, the Church has the truth, but it does not necessarily have its fullness. If that were true we would need no theologians to study and explain it.

The Holy Spirit guides the Church. I understand His charism in a negative rather than a positive sense, in that He has not necessarily told us about all the truth, but has promised to keep us from going down wrong paths.

My belief is not easy for me, as so many of my fellow Catholics who post on this forum seem to imply that theirs is.

I am comforted by John Henry Newman’s statement that “a thousand difficulties do not make a doubt.” The Church and faith carry a veritable carload of difficulties for me. But I have found nothing else that comes close to answering the mysteries of my existence on this planet and what my purpose is.

“Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.”
 
40.png
PilgrimJWT:
The term “Cafeteria Catholic” is frequently used as an epithet by some to include those who have the temerity to question any point of doctrine or moral teaching of the Church. It is at best an uncharitable label.
Perhaps “buffet Catholic”? 😉 Just kidding. I think though the quality of the label derives from the belief that the “temerity” is self-serving, i.e. just as one might genuinely prefer the hamburger to the salad, a cafeteria Catholic might prefer for personal reasons to suppose that contraception is okay after all: we should let the faith in-form us, and not seek a faith that suits our tastes.
40.png
PilgrimJWT:
My belief is not easy for me, as so many of my fellow Catholics who post on this forum seem to imply that theirs is.
I have read somewhere that Padre Pio prayed often that faith is difficult. I can’t find the quote at the moment.
 
Whenever I hear the word “dissent” and “Catholic” together, my blood pressure starts to rise. I didn’t convert to encounter these people, these dissenters. I fully expected imperfect people, but these dissenters are new Judases!

Now, I don’t mean to disparage the average “cafeteria Catholic” who probably doesn’t know any better and has suffered from poor education and formation. What gets my blood pressure rising are those groups like Call To Action, “Catholics” for a Free Choice, and their perfidious ilk.

Another annoyance is their skirting around the issue of infallibility. Since the Church is only infallible in ex cathedra and pronouncements of the extraordinary magisterium, then it follows, so the logic goes, that everything else is fallible and free for debate (although in the case of women priests, Ratzinger clearly stated that the teaching was infallible). This is questionable for two reasons: first, even the “fallible” pronouncements of the magisterium and Pope require religious assent. Second, we are not only dependent on the Pope and Magisterium, but also the testament of Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. And when Tradition says that women aren’t to be ordained, and no woman has been ordained in the history of the Chuch, nor in Israel, then we’d better pay attention.

All right, end of rant.

In Christ,

The Augustinian
 
I want to come back to the Church, but all I feel after reading these posts is condemned. 😦

It doesn’t seem to be allowed within the faith to question anything anymore. Some seminarian recently said to a friend of mine that we aren’t even to try to interpret Sacred Scripture for ourselves…that only priests are allowed to “tell us what we will believe”.

You mean to tell me that if I get an M.A. in Theology from a Catholic university, that I can’t read the Bible just as well as they can?

Unless it’s “ex cathedra”, isn’t it good to question and study and question some more, so we truly have an understanding of why we believe what we believe? I feel like the Church drops the ball when it comes to adult education. (It sure has dropped the ball when it comes to me, period.)

Therese
 
I am trying mightily not to be a cafeteria Catholic but find myself failing sometimes. I pray daily to gain understanding of the things that I have difficulty with.
 
40.png
vatoco6:
I want to come back to the Church, but all I feel after reading these posts is condemned. 😦

It doesn’t seem to be allowed within the faith to question anything anymore. Some seminarian recently said to a friend of mine that we aren’t even to try to interpret Sacred Scripture for ourselves…that only priests are allowed to “tell us what we will believe”.

You mean to tell me that if I get an M.A. in Theology from a Catholic university, that I can’t read the Bible just as well as they can?

Unless it’s “ex cathedra”, isn’t it good to question and study and question some more, so we truly have an understanding of why we believe what we believe? I feel like the Church drops the ball when it comes to adult education. (It sure has dropped the ball when it comes to me, period.)

Therese
It is encouraged to question. However, a sincere effort to discover the truth is required, not a quest of convenience.

If you mean by questioning (as in a democratic process) then you are right. The Church is not a democracy - never was and never will be.

If you mean questioning what Jesus taught - as in I will decide if I will believe it - the Church has no authority to change what he taught to suit the current culture. She can only repeat and teach what he did.

A degree in Theology does not necessarily qualify you to interpret every Bible verse correctly. (especially from Universities without the mandatum) What if you and a friend take exactly the same courses and graduate with a degree. You start talking about a particular verse and that friend disagrees with you as to what it means. Who is the authority in this case? If you go down the road that both of you can, then you believe in private interpretation. So do many Protestants.

It is encouraged to learn for yourself and he is wrong about Priests being the only authority today.

Purchase a Catechism (if you don’t have one) - it is a great resource.

It is true adult education has failed. But you can do it yourself.

I will be happy to help in any way.
 
The is no such thing as “Cafeteria Catholics”. There are saintly Catholics, sinful Catholics, heretical Catholics, apostate Catholics, and some others. “Cafeteria Catholics” is a politically correct word for heretical Catholics. Since the term, “Cafeteria Catholics”, came out, you rarely hear the word heresy. Heresy and heretics are in the Church and in large numbers. Some nicely call them “Cafeteria Catholics”.

For starters, to make it to heaven, you can’t create your own religion around your own lifestyles. God is Truth, and you must accept the Truth. After accepting the Truth of God, then comes the hard part - following in the footsteps of Christ in today’s world.
 
40.png
VociMike:
While I chose and try to live up to #1, I’ve spent a lot more of my life as “Other”, in particular as a completely fallen-away Catholic.

Guess I don’t do things by half-measures. Lucky for me, neither does God. 🙂
I am right there with you but in four more years I will have reached the half way mark. That is half in the cafeteria and half in Christ’s buffet line.🙂
 
George Weigel said in a recent column that I read that there really is no such thing as a cafeteria catholic or even a dissident catholic. There is only a catholic or noncatholic. The catholic follows the teachings of the faith and is obedient to the pope and magisterium and the noncatholic is not. It’s that simple. I wish people would stop calling themselves catholic when they are not.
 
40.png
Riley259:
George Weigel said in a recent column that I read that there really is no such thing as a cafeteria catholic or even a dissident catholic. There is only a catholic or noncatholic. The catholic follows the teachings of the faith and is obedient to the pope and magisterium and the noncatholic is not. It’s that simple. I wish people would stop calling themselves catholic when they are not.
Talk about hypocrisy! It appears to me that the Catholic Church itself is the inventor and originator of “cafeterianism”. Any reading of the book of Leviticus will clearly show that we are quite liberal at picking and choosing which of God’s direct commands we are going to follow. God is very clear that all of the restrictions are to be obeyed - just think of that the next time you cut into that rare t-bone or button up that cotton-polyester blend shirt.

I was going to ask that my label not be taken away but on second thought go ahead since it seems to apply to all Catholics.

Pat
 
40.png
patg:
Talk about hypocrisy! It appears to me that the Catholic Church itself is the inventor and originator of “cafeterianism”. Any reading of the book of Leviticus will clearly show that we are quite liberal at picking and choosing which of God’s direct commands we are going to follow. God is very clear that all of the restrictions are to be obeyed - just think of that the next time you cut into that rare t-bone or button up that cotton-polyester blend shirt.

I was going to ask that my label not be taken away but on second thought go ahead since it seems to apply to all Catholics.

Pat
You’re confusing disciplines from the Old Testament with doctrines, dogmas and issues relating to faith and morals from since Christ established his church (the Catholic church) in the new covenant. The Lord promised that the Spirit would guide the church into all truth - a reading of the Catechism of the Catholic church confirms that He has done this. A cafeteria catholic doesn’t trust (or doesn’t care) that this promise by our Lord was made - it is simply ignored out of convenience or ignorance.
 
40.png
Riley259:
You’re confusing disciplines from the Old Testament with doctrines, dogmas and issues relating to faith and morals from since Christ established his church (the Catholic church) in the new covenant. The Lord promised that the Spirit would guide the church into all truth - a reading of the Catechism of the Catholic church confirms that He has done this. A cafeteria catholic doesn’t trust (or doesn’t care) that this promise by our Lord was made - it is simply ignored out of convenience or ignorance.
So show me where the new covenant says its ok to wear clothes with blended fabrics or eat scallops or sow two different crops in the same field. We certainly like to use the prohibitions against male homosexuality (I notice female isn’t mentioned) from Leviticus but we conveniently ignore most all the others. We also like to emphasize belief in most other things from the OT - from creation to Adam and Eve to the Flood and so on but get real “cafeteria like” when it comes to God’s direct commandments.

The term cafeteria catholic is pretty useless as it is used to describe those who don’t care, those who choose the easy stuff, and those who work really hard at establishing beliefs they can live with.
 
40.png
patg:
So show me where the new covenant says its ok to wear clothes with blended fabrics or eat scallops or sow two different crops in the same field. We certainly like to use the prohibitions against male homosexuality (I notice female isn’t mentioned) from Leviticus but we conveniently ignore most all the others. We also like to emphasize belief in most other things from the OT - from creation to Adam and Eve to the Flood and so on but get real “cafeteria like” when it comes to God’s direct commandments.

The term cafeteria catholic is pretty useless as it is used to describe those who don’t care, those who choose the easy stuff, and those who work really hard at establishing beliefs they can live with.
Homosexual relations are condemned in the New Testament as well. When it comes to the Catholic Church, doctrines and dogmas haven’t changed (but at times were developed) since the inception of the church and these are what we are called to believe in. We’re also called to assent to all the church’s teachings on faith and morals. Those who don’t aren’t really catholic.
 
I don’t attend any church right now, I used to be Lutheran, that is till I was about 15. About a year and a Half ago I found interest in christianity, and because of confusion and solid Catholic Answers, now believe that Jesus really did establish the Catholic church.I accept all the doctrines and dogmas and all that jazz. I don’t follow them, I don’t really break that many. I want to become a Catholic, but I’m afraid for some reason. It’s like meeting a girl you think you might marry, and it’s like “I don’t want to do that yet”, but then again," It may be too late soon". Wow i’m lame.
 
I am amazed, what a spiteful thread! Of course there will be peopel who don’t accept all of the churches teachings, this usually doesn’t come out of a hatred for catholic law or a profound urge just to flout it, it comes because the person is struggling with a certain law, it is especially hard for them. We are called to see the good always, we are called to be compassionate and encourage, not sit upon high and judge when YOU yourself are a sinner. God Bless you all and much love and peace to you all xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 
40.png
Teresa9:
I am amazed, what a spiteful thread! Of course there will be peopel who don’t accept all of the churches teachings, this usually doesn’t come out of a hatred for catholic law or a profound urge just to flout it, it comes because the person is struggling with a certain law, it is especially hard for them. We are called to see the good always, we are called to be compassionate and encourage, not sit upon high and judge when YOU yourself are a sinner. God Bless you all and much love and peace to you all xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
In some cases I think you’re right about people just struggling with the doctrine or teaching. However, I think in most cases it is because the person realizes that following all the teachings of the church means changing their lives and alot people aren’t willing to do that. As a result, they accept the teachings they feel they can follow and ignore or dismiss the teachings that would be a problem to follow - a good example is contraception. In other cases, it is just simple ignorance of the true teachings due to poor catechesis. The bottom line is if the Church and the Magisterium cannot be trusted on putting forth correct and true teachings, then the promise from Christ that the Holy spirit would teach all truth is a lie. I don’t think alot of people think this last point through and what the implications of their cafeteria catholicism are. You need to take the whole package if you want to call yourself a Catholic.
 
What you have said is true, I agree we SHOULD follow all the laws of the faith and obey all the Magisterium of the Church, it is infallible, humanity on the other hand is fallible, we are what we are, human flesh striving to don divinity, Christ Jesus and God know our weaknesses, they know in the most inimate sense, probably better than we know ourselves. What the Majesterium of the church does is provide the absolute truth as the Bride to and to become the Body of Christ and now we as brothers and sisters must strive to meet this every minute of everyday, we do not meet it when we presume about others even when they speak, because not always what they speak is what their heart knows to be true. There are ways and means of saying things and doing things to encourage people, it is not a standpoint of charity, encouragement or love to sit in judgement, it is also not any of these things to allow someone you know to continue in sin if they do not realise they are infact sinning. The fine balance is to refute judgement and to become as sons and daughters of quiet encouragement in all humble intent for the love, goodness and service of God, for the same of our brothers and sisters and for ourselves. This thread could be about encouragement and hopexxx God Bless you and much peace and love to you all
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top