Cafeteria Catholic?

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Lilyofthevalley:
I think labeling someone as a “Cafeteria Catholic” is a form of self pride. It’s as if you are looking down on someone. 😦
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Just pointing out the facts. A murderer is a killer, a thief steals, a cafeteria catholic chooses.

Try joining your golf club and tell them you will only follow some of their rules - the ones you like.
 
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buffalo:
A recent article came out that some 80% or so believe in hell, but they also beleive no one goes there. We are all saved, because our God is a loving God.

Our God is also perfect and will be perfectly just when we are judged.
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Truth is not necessarily discovered in polls, although I agree with your last sentence.
 
For what it is worth, I think the Church has itself to blame for the entire cafeteria Catholics out there. Our parish does a very poor job on continuing education for adult members. We have two groups that meet on a regular basis for Bible study or to discuss their faith. Only about twenty attend and the people in those groups are the “in” crowd. Nearly every person in these groups is at Church more than they are at home and volunteer for nearly everything… But the other 4000 people that show up on Christmas or Easter or whenever, well they don’t all get it and they don’t know where to get it if they wanted it. Now I’m all for being self motivated, but when is the Church going to get off it’s hind quarters and start evangelizing these folks? What happened to “Peter, tend my sheep”??? I would guess that the average Joe Catholic in the pew doesn’t even know that this website exists. They are not actively seeking any information about their faith, most couldn’t care less. They haven’t been to reconciliation for three years (or longer), yet they bust their rump to get that Blessed Sacrament on Easter Sunday. It’s no wonder so many are led astray. :mad:
 
I didn’t participate in this poll, because I think it’s flawed. If it asked about who thought of themselves as a sinner, I’d be the first in line. I’m a sinner because I’ve done things, knowingly, that the Church says are wrong. A lot of my indiscretions occurred in my younger days, but I guess that’s nothing new. There are still issues that I wrestle with to this day. That’s why I thank the Good Shepherd for His Church and sacraments.

I, too, believe that “Cafeteria Catholicism” is a pejorative term, but it’s not supposed to be a likable thing. I also think that it’s something of a misnomer. In my mind, either you’re Catholic or you aren’t. Catholicism is, to me, one of those either-or choices. You can’t be part Catholic, any more than you can be only part human.

If we take the “Cafeteria Catholic” definition to its logical extremes, couldn’t we think of all Christians as “Cafeteria Catholics?” I mean, don’t all Christians share at least some of the Church’s teachings?

It’s like the old cliche: “You are either with us or agin’ us.”
 
Hello St Jomo,
A “cafeteria” variety Catholic is a person who frequently says “Oh, I don’t believe THAT!” about many things the Church teaches. As a rule they tend to insist that the Church “prove it’s point,” and only assent to “think” about it. The problem is in order to believe what we believe one must make an assent of the will to all the Church teaches. This is what we affirm when we say our Creed on Sundays and when we say “Amen.” before receiving the Eucharist.
As for your observation that this type of thinking, all Christians could be considered “cafeteria,” you aren’t far from the truth. The Church teaches that initiation into the Church begins with Baptism and all persons are incorporated into the Church by virtue of their Baptism. (See the CCC 1213, 1236, 1253, 1254, 1257, 1267, 1268, 1269, 1273, 1279) That means that the universal or Catholic Church, is made up of all validly Baptised persons, whether or not they warm a pew in your local parish. This being true, your Methodist neighbor if he/she has been properly Baptised, is part of the Catholic Church! For the fullness of the grace of Baptism to be realized, this person then must make an assent of the will to what is taught and believed in the Church. This is done through learning and practicing what the Church teaches.

Those who deny parts of this teaching are preventing their own full Communion with Christ and His Church. They are actually protesting against what has been revealed by God to us and needs to be believed for salvation and are jeopardising their own personal salvation. A cafeteria Catholic KNOWS what the Church teaches but refuses to believe it or live it i.e. John Kerry et al. To me, they seem to be more Protestant than many of the Protestants I’ve known. It really is a waste considering if they persist in this sin, what could happen to their souls? This very reason is why the Church has always ensured that the Catechumen was instructed before he/she was allowed full entry into the Church. We’ve always made sure they knew what they were assenting to. As a convert, I have a real problem accepting those who claim to love God and His Church yet don’t even try to learn about Him or what His Church teaches. An analogy I’d offer is how I felt the first time I fell in love - I wanted to know EVERYTHING about the object of my love and I wanted to spend as much time as I could with this same person. Loving God is and has been all the more intense. To me those who claim Catholicism for themselves are saying they “love” God but if only He would change this and that and would much prefer He wasn’t so demanding and would keep His ideas to Himself and keep His Church out of their lives. Hardly love wouldn’t you agree? 😦

Peace and all good,

Thomas2

P.S. See Matthew 22: 1-14.
 
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Thomas2:
Hello Bernie,

First off, yes if a person shuns his or her duty to attend Mass on a Sunday in favor of going to another place for worship, then this person is committing a grave sin.
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How unfortunate that “man’s law” (such as that) is being passed off as “God’s law”… and there are numerous other examples…

…Bernie (former catholic)
www.FreeGoodNews.com
 
disagree with the Magesterium of the Catholic Church on …
  1. Nothing
  2. Matters of practice (married priests)
  3. Matters of authoritative teaching (birth control)
  4. Matters of dogma (Church isn’t visible, communion of saints, Marian dogmas, in a nutshell … Protestantism)
  5. Everything pertaining to faith (not Christian)
Well, we Eastern Catholics don’t have #2, would that make you feel better?
 
Although I agree with one of the other posters that the Church should evangelize more or educate Catholics more so that they don’t become “Cafeteria Catholics”, but when do most people take the time to learn about their faith? Most Masses are 55 min. long and most Catholics think THAT is too long!! When do you fit in Bible classes or classes about your faith? I read a lot but many people are not readers or don’t know where to find the resources. Its a shame. But what is worse are the priests and religious who promote the ideas that one can pick and choose. You know the mantra (“Jesus didn’t really know he was God until He was on the Cross”, or the worse that many people believe that now the Church has done away with Friday abstinence- which it didn’t-- now EVERYTHING is subject to change.) You have to use your head. There is a difference between Church practise and Church discipline.
 
Hey Bernie!

Keeping Holy the Sabbath is God’s Law! I think you may be confused.

Peace and all good,

Thomas2
 
I accept the teaching and authority of the Church with great thanksgiving. I had been so lost and confused for so many years. Living it is the difficult part; it is the part which I need the help of the sacraments especially Confession. When witnessing for the truth, I need to be wary of arrogance and pride which in itself can lead to the slippery slide into sin. The minute my witness becomes personal; it commences turning righteousness into self-righteousness. Isn’t interesting how one sin leads into another and another until our grace is blocked by our own deeds. God Bless and Pray for me.
 
Former Roman Catholic here.

**Whenever someone mentions this term, “cafeteria Catholic”, I always tell them that I got as far as the salad bar and determined that I had to dine elsewhere. 😉 **

**Seriously, it raises a meritorious question: At what point do you stop “grinning and bearing” beliefs/ practices that you cannot in good conscience accept, and seek another church? At what point do the purported"historical arguments" and triumphalistic boasts ring hollow, and you decide that you simply do not want to be a Catholic anymore, “cafeteria” or otherwise? **

It almost seems that, with some proto-Catholic types, you’re “damned if you do, and damned if you don’t.” On the one hand, it you put on blinders to a particular doctrinal point that you simply cannot accept as true and try to work around it, you’re blasted as a “cafeteria Catholic who picks and chooses” as (s)he goes along." On the other hand, if you decide to do the honest thing, and leave, you’re blasted as well: whether you’re an “apostate”, a “heretic”, or a “schismatic” can depend upon (a) their educational level; (b) their mood; (c) their definition of the terms; or (d) how much they’ve had to drink. Of course, the admonition is always to read more, study more, etc.-- but what happens when you’ve done all the research, and one still cannot reconcile those beliefs/practices with one’s conscience?

For myself, it ultimately came down to the issue of how I could better serve, know, and obey God. It also involved fellowshipping with those in whom I saw a clearer vision of Christian discipleship as exemplified by both their beliefs and their conduct. One desires to affiliate with , and to worship with, those who will inspire the better elements inside oneself, and what one aspires to become. Resolving the conflicts is never easy, and following through after decision was even harder. But I have never, ever, regretted doing what I knew was right.
 
We must struggle to understand truth as God as revealed it. I believe that God has revealed His truth in His son, Jesus Christ. I believe that the Saviour established a church and left that church the Holy Spirit as a guide.

It is not easy for us humans to accept our own limitations and acknowledge that God chose not to make us all-knowing individuals. Yet, as Fr. Corapi is fond of say, truth is not a matter of indifference. So, when I have a conflict between my belief and church teaching, it is not a matter of blindness that I accept the teaching of the Church, but of perspective. I am very fallible and must cling to that pillar of truth which Christ established.
 
I put that I’m a cannon Catholic because I try to do my best

However, I don’t really believe all the cannon laws are “right” but I know its not up to me to change them so I listen to what the Chuch says.
 
Binky leaving Jesus Christ in the Eucharist is never a “right” choice.

Our conscience is to be formed within Church teaching, not outside of it. 🙂 WE conform to the Church, not pick a church to conform with our opinions.
 
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Meggie:
I put that I’m a cannon Catholic because I try to do my best

You seem like the type of individual who, while I might disagree with them, would say that they’re " of the highest caliber…"
**Sorry. Couldn’t resist. 👋 **
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cmom:
Binky leaving Jesus Christ in the Eucharist is never a “right” choice.

**Obviously, if I concurred with your opinion on this point, I’d still be a Roman Catholic, wouldn’t I? And no…I won’t discuss the purported scriptural and historical “arguments in support” of your opinion on this point within this thread. As an outsider within a Roman Catholic forum, I am reluctant to do so for fear of appearing ungracious. The topic here is “cafeteria Catholicism”, and I suggest we maintain our discussion within that perimeter. **

I would agree, however, with what you seem to imply: that this particular belief- the “actual presence of the body, blood, soul and divinity in the Eucharist” (along with its corollary belief of transubstantiation) is the sine qua non of being a Roman Catholic. If one rejects it, (s)he cannot honestly be called a Roman Catholic. Within the context of our discussion of “cafeteria Catholicism,” I think that we would both agree that this is a “fish or cut bait” issue, and that it is not one which a person can hold a position contrary to that of the Magisterium of your church and still, with any element of intellectual honesty, call himself or herself a Roman Catholic, “cafeteria” or otherwise.
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Binky just to believe it you don’t have to understand to really believe like you can believe that your fingers are hitting the keys to type your reply.

You believe that your nose lets you smell you believe that your eyes let you see you believe that your ears let you hear, yet you have no proof. You could do nothing to convince us that you are not a blind man who is having posts read to him, just you cannot really know that of me. You could do nothing to convince me you are really who you are and not a ten year old kid or a eighty year old woman.

I choose to believe that you are a “normal” person

I choose believe that Jesus is truly presant in the Transubstantionion.

I don’t have to have 100% physical evidence to know something and to trust that it is true. All I know is that I can trust the church with little things so I can trust them with large things like Transubstantiation. If I go to a Protestant church and disagree with a tiny portion of their simplest most straight foward teachings, why should I entrust my soul there?

I have been through alot of things in my life and because of that I am not exactly sure what I believe. But I trust the Catholic Church with all my heart, not every memeber of the Mystical body, but the the Catholic Church as a whole.

And really if that is not belief, what is? Knowlege and being ceritan is not belief but following through times of doubt and misunderstanding is.
 
So the consensus seems to be this: agree 100% with every single position the Church takes on every doctrine, political issue, cultural question, etc., or you’re not a Catholic, or you don’t belong in the Church at all?
 
you have to defend the church and align yourself with the rules…but if you don’t it dosn’t mean you are not Catholic…becasue a star soccor player refuses to use regulation shin guards does not make him any less of a soccor player…a foolish one perhaps, but a soccor player none the less.
 
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