California Latinos fearful after immigration raids

[BlyssfulDreamer]

From the link in post #20…

The defendant failed to yield to the emergency lights and sirens of Border Patrol agents following him. Border Patrol agents continued to follow the defendant at a safe distance for 16 miles. While driving on Interstate 8, the defendant made two U-turns across the median before again heading west on Interstate 8. Border Patrolagents deployed a tire deflation device to attempt to stop the vehicle. The defendant swerved to avoidthe tire deflation device, then over-corrected the vehicle. The vehicle rolled twice into the median.Flora Carrillo-Carmona was a passenger in the vehicle and was not wearing a seatbelt at the time of therollover. She was ejected from the vehicle and died from injuries sustained during the rollover.

The driver of this vehicle put at risk lives of the innocents who just happened to be on the road that day.

:heart:Blyss

 

[Michael_Francis]

This thread is closed pending moderator review.
I recommend that you all maintain exemplary charity in all your posts.

 

[Walt_Oliver]

Thread is reopened. I’m going to say this one last time: You folks are free to disagree with each other all you want if you do so politely. Stating or implying that someone is lying is not allowed, nor is name calling or ridicule.

I suggest that all participants in this forum take a few minutes to read the forum rules again, then act accordingly. I will issue no more warnings or infraction notices to those involved, only suspension notices. I have spend over three hours today cleaning up in here and am very short on patience, so be forewarned.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

… No, the patrol needs for immigration to come and take cusotdy of the illegals and many times they choose not to do so…hence they are let go…

The patrol can arrest and jail anyone breaking the law.

BTW…where did I ever say that I see pregnant women crossing the border? LOL!!

Post #37 Jan 26, '07, 9:42 am in Thread Re: What Does Illegal Immigration Cost Me?
BlyssfulDreamer wrote:
Jude, I am opposed to anyone getting welfare just because they can. I don’t like seeing women have kid after kid just to get more money. But, I also don’t like seeing women who are not citizens sneak across the border at 9 months gestation to plop out a kid and have them become automatic citizens and thereby helping the whole clan to remain here. My money is on the CITIZEN every time. I am constantly amazed that some of our citizens would like to see our own poor citizens suffer and yet have no problemm with the illegals

I also don’t take kindly to being called what amounts to a liar. You can choose to believe or not…but do NOT cast doubt on my character.

:heart:Blyss

 

[Ridgerunner]

Texasroofer:

Geezerbob does have a point about the difficulty in exporting some kinds of jobs; particularly in the meat processing industries, and particularly when it comes to fresh product.

I can’t speak too knowledgeably about beef or pork. But in the poultry industry, for example, most processors have contract farmers. The contract farmers must be resident on their farms, and are responsible to raise the poultry in a very exacting way. The processing facility is associated with a breeding facility and a feed mixing facility. The feed requirements are quite exacting and the breeding requirements are even more so. Both must be precisely coordinated with the farms and the processing facilities in order to prevent bottlenecks, non-uniformity and overpruduction or underproduction. Contract farms cannot be more than about 20miles away from the processing plant because the DOAs increase to an intolerable level at any greater.distance because the meat, even of the survivors, suffers. Meat intended to be sold fresh (e.g., Ky Fried) cannot be frozen or the seller won’t take it. It must be delivered within a very few hours of processing, or the quality will deteriorate seriously, so it can’t simply be refrigerated and put on a ship. The product must perfectly conform to order. The requirements for highly processed product (like restaurant-ready chicken cordon bleu) are even more exacting.

The largest poultry processor in the U.S. has tried production just about everywhere in the world. It doesn’t work very well anywhere other than the U.S. for a huge number of reasons, not the least of which is the very high public infrastucture requirements (electricity, communications, transport, water, sewage and secondary product disposal) and ready accessibility of high-quality tech support for top-notch poultry production. Those facilities are astoundingly automated, and require support of high-quality mechanical experts of all kinds as well as sophisticated computer support for absolutely every step in the production process. Most of its production supervisors (and there are a good number in every facility) have degrees in agricultural subspecialties for a host of reasons, which requires a drawable labor pool with ready access to such education. Then, of course, there is the USDA, whose inspectors must be at every step in the process. It is a major net exporter of poultry product, including to the third world, and imports none. It’s not a business in which you can just buy a bunch of chickens in Central America, feed them what’s at hand, pull off the feathers, cut them up the best you know how and throw them on a boat bound for L.A. Not by a very long way.

I have been in one pork production facility, and that whole process differs little from the way poultry facilities operate. Highly processed product (which is what most Americans demand, and what restaurants absolutely require) has to be uniform, fresh, never frozen and no more than a few hours away from the final consumer. Infrastructure requirements are just as high. Further-processed product is where the money is. Commodity pork, like commodity poultry, is a loser, no matter where it comes from. Again, I can’t speak about the beef industry, because I don’t know.

Anyway, some industries just do not lend themselves well to import.

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

The patrol can arrest and jail anyone breaking the law.
Post #37 Jan 26, '07, 9:42 am in Thread Re: What Does Illegal Immigration Cost Me?
BlyssfulDreamer wrote:
Jude, I am opposed to anyone getting welfare just because they can. I don’t like seeing women have kid after kid just to get more money. But, I also don’t like seeing women who are not citizens sneak across the border at 9 months gestation to plop out a kid and have them become automatic citizens and thereby helping the whole clan to remain here. My money is on the CITIZEN every time. I am constantly amazed that some of our citizens would like to see our own poor citizens suffer and yet have no problemm with the illegals

Definition of the word “SEE”…1)to perceive with the eyes 2)to perceive mentally 3) to form a mental image of…THAT was the context where I used the word “see” Tex…

As for the patrol arresting anyone breaking the law…yes and they may arrest the driver of the vehicle if they are observed breaking the rules of the road or driving without a license…however, they do not arrest illegal aliens…they inform immigration and then immigration may or may not respond…depending many times on manpower.IF immigration does not take custody of the illegals…then they are released.

:heart:Blyss

 

[pnewton]

As for the patrol arresting anyone breaking the law…yes and they may arrest the driver of the vehicle if they are observed breaking the rules of the road or driving without a license…however, they do not arrest illegal aliens…they inform immigration and then immigration may or may not respond…depending many times on manpower.IF immigration does not take custody of the illegals…then they are released.

You are correct here, with the one exception, at least in my neck ot the woods, that ICE will take custody of the arrestee after local charges are cleared. They never decline to arrest if the person is generally here illegally.

An interesting sidenote: Houston PD used to have a “don’t ask” policy on one’s illegal status. In 2007 an officer was killed making a traffic stop on a subject who had been released under that policy. They have changed their policy.

FYI - It has not been my experience that immigrants run from police more than any other person who is being stopped and doesn’t want to be arrested. It happens, but is not common. That’s why it makes the news when it does happen. But that is one person’s experience.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Geezerbobs & Ridgerunner
Well I would love for you to be right about this issue of importing meat. However I can tell you many of the jobs exported in the past were held by people who made these claims and even more extensive claims. Think about bananas a perishable product which is shipped in every day with a deliver price of $0.50 per pound. If you look at the fresh flower industry what happens is mind boggling, the flowers are cut flown to an auction site then sold, and flown to a delivery site all in less than 48 hrs. Similarly for years we have pressured Japan into opening the same markets ( meat & rice). It would be odd if we were pressuring Japan to allow in US meat sales if we could not actually supply the meat?

The point is we already compete in a global economy; the only question is whether we do that with thoughts and planning or just stumble around blindly.

some references: beef
meatnews.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=Article&artNum=12062
smh.com.au/articles/2004/01/05/1073267965827.html

chicken:
1996 poultry exports 2.2 billion dollars
www.fas.usda.gov/info/factsheets/wto/poultry.pdf

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

You are correct here, with the one exception, at least in my neck ot the woods, that ICE will take custody of the arrestee after local charges are cleared. They never decline to arrest if the person is generally here illegally.

FYI - It has not been my experience that immigrants run from police more than any other person who is being stopped and doesn’t want to be arrested. It happens, but is not common. That’s why it makes the news when it does happen. But that is one person’s experience.

Well…not all that long ago, the patrol stopped a van driving recklessly on the Interstate. Inside were about a dozen illegals. This was in a part of our state that is sparsely populated. They called for Immigration and were told that they had no one available to come and get them. So, they were released, except for the driver. It happened and I am sure happens more than we care to know.

As for them running from the cops, I think it is more common than uncommon. It makes the news because of the immigration problem and often because innocent people are killed…and I am sure there are times when it doesn’t make the news just because of the fact that no one was seriously injured or killed.

:heart:Blyss

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

An interesting sidenote: Houston PD used to have a “don’t ask” policy on one’s illegal status. In 2007 an officer was killed making a traffic stop on a subject who had been released under that policy. They have changed their policy. QUOTE]

Did Houston used to be a sanctuary city?

:heart:Blyss

 

[LCMS_No_More]

and a lot more action.

fayobserver.com/article?id=252975

today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyid=2007-01-25T201324Z_01_N25441006_RTRUKOC_0_US-USA-IMMIGRATION-RAIDS.xml&src=rss&rpc=22

Call me crazy (I’m sure someone will), but I think that a more important issue is being missed here:

Immigration officials showed up in unmarked cars and plain clothes, Pittman said. The workers were then sent into a room with ICE officials, questioned and arrested, spokesman Raimondi said.

Union and church officials repeatedly pointed fingers at the pork processing plant for the arrests. Some people said the workers who were most vocal about unionization were some of those arrested.

There’s been talk of unionization at the plant for a decade.

A statement from the union Thursday said arrests are likely to continue and that ICE violated its own guidelines, “which preclude the agency from facilitating the use of immigration laws of enforcement to intervene in the course of a labor dispute,” the statement said.

“The entire community has been terrorized,” said Gene Bruskin, head of the Smithfield Justice Campaign, a national coalition backed by the union. “Parents are being torn from their young children who don’t know where they are. Many of these workers have given their life blood to this company for (years) and now are being summarily handed over to be arrested and discarded. It is unconscionable and continues Smithfield’s pattern of callous disregard for the wellbeing of its workers.”

Seems like ICE is being used by this corporate interest to bust a union movement that has been brewing in the company for some time. The right of workers to unionize is something that I have come to understand that the Church supports…which I would believe that Catholics who are obedient to the Church’s teachings would also support.

 

[Hey_Jude]

fayobserver.com/article?id=253744

CA, NC. Fear anywhere else? jt

 

[Ituyu]

fayobserver.com/article?id=253744

CA, NC. Fear anywhere else? jt

I like these human interest stories because they serve to demonstrate the Family Values displayed by these people.

Santiago and others are telling undocumented workers they should be prepared in the event of more arrests. That includes having a plan that addresses who would have custody of the children if parents are deported, how to go about paying bills and what to do with their homes and property.

Imagine that they are worried about their responsibilities, yet, some people keep trying to brand them as “criminals”.

Reform is way past due.

 

[Ituyu]

Call me crazy (I’m sure someone will), but I think that a more important issue is being missed here:

Seems like ICE is being used by this corporate interest to bust a union movement that has been brewing in the company for some time. The right of workers to unionize is something that I have come to understand that the Church supports…which I would believe that Catholics who are obedient to the Church’s teachings would also support.

It is certainly plausible that this company did just that. It’s happened so many times before. Proving it has always been very difficult. But if it happens, they will probably have a union and the company may have to pay reparations along with lost wages and reinstatement of employees. How might that work with ICE?

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

Well, that kind of “responsibility” isn’t being shown everywhere. In this part of the country when the packing plants were raided many children were left unattended and it was through the kindness of the AMERICAN school system, the AMERICAN charities and even the packing plant themselves that these children were cared for.

Being responsible is NOT coming into another country against the law and then either having children or bringing them with you. Either way…the chance is always there that this country might once and for all start actually enforcing its immigration laws…which is the right of this country and the duty of this country to its citizens.

:heart:Blyss

 

[Ituyu]

Being responsible is NOT coming into another country against the law and then either having children or bringing them with you. Either way…the chance is always there that this country might once and for all start actually enforcing its immigration laws…which is the right of this country and the duty of this country to its citizens.

Your biggest argument has alway been the LAW but unfortunately the law needs reform because it doesn’t work for us. I’ll agree with the laws that aim to prohibit the entry of serious criminals and those that pose health risks to us because that serves everyone. However, the arbitrary policies that closed the doors of “legal” entry to those that could have otherwise qualified do not serve our interests much less the Common Good… To close the doors on the flow of people as a result of NAFTA also contradicted common sense. To ignore the consequences of our decision to have abortions in this country and reduce our birth rates is also wrong and to ignore the needs of our significantly increased elderly population is also wrong. All these factors require people to run our infrastructure, people that are not now being replaced. It is our right and duty to act responsibly and our policies clearly indicate that we need a different direction. We don’t need to try and make failed policies work. The fence and deportations will not solve the problem Crininalizing people will not solve the problem. Immigrant bashing will not solve the problem. Bashing Hispanics will not solve the problem. WE need reform to accomplish that goal and that will require a change in status for the vast majority of those already here. That doesn’t mean that they become citizens immediately but it does mean bringing them out of the shadows and having them participate “legally” in the system. That way they pay taxes, that way we know who they are, that way we remove dangerous criminals and that way we identify health risks. That way they become vested here and are no longer in limbo. It’s a win/win situation. We’ve already blown 5 billion dollars at this issue through fencing and border patrols and we have nothing to show for it. Even if in your wildest dreams what you propose were to succeed, it would be a lose/lose result. Sorry but reform is our only reasonable recourse and we need it sooner than later.

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

Your biggest argument has alway been the LAW but unfortunately the law needs reform because it doesn’t work for us. I’ll agree with the laws that aim to prohibit the entry of serious criminals and those that pose health risks to us because that serves everyone. However, the arbitrary policies that closed the doors of “legal” entry to those that could have otherwise qualified do not serve our interests much less the Common Good… To close the doors on the flow of people as a result of NAFTA also contradicted common sense. To ignore the consequences of our decision to have abortions in this country and reduce our birth rates is also wrong and to ignore the needs of our significantly increased elderly population is also wrong. All these factors require people to run our infrastructure, people that are not now being replaced. It is our right and duty to act responsibly and our policies clearly indicate that we need a different direction. We don’t need to try and make failed policies work. The fence and deportations will not solve the problem Crininalizing people will not solve the problem. Immigrant bashing will not solve the problem. Bashing Hispanics will not solve the problem. WE need reform to accomplish that goal and that will require a change in status for the vast majority of those already here. That doesn’t mean that they become citizens immediately but it does mean bringing them out of the shadows and having them participate “legally” in the system. That way they pay taxes, that way we know who they are, that way we remove dangerous criminals and that way we identify health risks. That way they become vested here and are no longer in limbo. It’s a win/win situation. We’ve already blown 5 billion dollars at this issue through fencing and border patrols and we have nothing to show for it. Even if in your wildest dreams what you propose were to succeed, it would be a lose/lose result. Sorry but reform is our only reasonable recourse and we need it sooner than later.

The LAW is the LAW Ituyu and if you don’t like a LAW…you go about changing it…you just don’t cave in and let the law continue to be broke. I don’t like the 40 MPH speed limits on my arterials closest to my home…I feel it is too slow…but that does not mean i can go speed…I will get a ticket for breaking the law. What I need to do is to go before the proper authorities and have the spped limit changed…

There are no doors being closed to the immigrants who come here illegally…they just choose to put themselves ahead of everyone else. They, in fact…close the doors to legal immigration for themselves when they sneak into this country.

Your comments about birth rates and abortion are off topic…IMO…as well as the needs of our elderly population. Start another thraed to discuss those topics which I do not necessarily disagree with.

We are not criminalizing anyone…they do that themselves. I cannot make someone a criminal…that is the choice they make.

The fence will not work, I agree…it is not even funded. Deportation will not work either because of its magnitude. Those here illegally need to step up and pay for what they have done. They need to pay heavily…through fines. They need to learn English…the history of this country and try to become good citizens. Many do not even want to become citizens…they are just here for what this country can offer them. they do not care about this country itself, what has made it great or what it stands for. IF they do not choose to put this country first…they need to leave…pronto!

I don’t believe anyone is bashing Hispanics…I am against ALL illegal aliens whatever their nationality, color…etc. It just so happens that the biggest share of ILLEGALS ARE Hispanic…as fact we cannot ignore.

I don’t think actually we are so very far apart in our views.

:heart:Blyss

 

[Texas_Roofer]

The LAW is the LAW Ituyu and if you don’t like a LAW…you go about changing it…you just don’t cave in and let the law continue to be broke. I don’t like the 40 MPH speed limits on my arterials closest to my home…I feel it is too slow…but that does not mean i can go speed…I will get a ticket for breaking the law. What I need to do is to go before the proper authorities and have the spped limit changed…

There are no doors being closed to the immigrants who come here illegally…they just choose to put themselves ahead of everyone else. They, in fact…close the doors to legal immigration for themselves when they sneak into this country.

Your comments about birth rates and abortion are off topic…IMO…as well as the needs of our elderly population. Start another thraed to discuss those topics which I do not necessarily disagree with.

We are not criminalizing anyone…they do that themselves. I cannot make someone a criminal…that is the choice they make.

The fence will not work, I agree…it is not even funded. Deportation will not work either because of its magnitude. Those here illegally need to step up and pay for what they have done. They need to pay heavily…through fines. They need to learn English…the history of this country and try to become good citizens. Many do not even want to become citizens…they are just here for what this country can offer them. they do not care about this country itself, what has made it great or what it stands for. IF they do not choose to put this country first…they need to leave…pronto!

I don’t believe anyone is bashing Hispanics…I am against ALL illegal aliens whatever their nationality, color…etc. It just so happens that the biggest share of ILLEGALS ARE Hispanic…as fact we cannot ignore.

I don’t think actually we are so very far apart in our views.

:heart:Blyss

Actually our Congress decides what is illegal on all issues except those installed by the Constitution. Similarly the Congress can defer some legal power to states. So we do label them as illegal. We could allow legal enter in any form we choose. So their “legal status” is based on our decision as much as it is based on their decision. And just for the record many of them are invited by family, friends, and humanitarians.

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

Actually our Congress decides what is illegal on all issues except those installed by the Constitution. Similarly the Congress can defer some legal power to states. So we do label them as illegal. We could allow legal enter in any form we choose. So their “legal status” is based on our decision as much as it is based on their decision. And just for the record many of them are invited by family, friends, and humanitarians.

If citizens do not like the immigration laws IN PLACE…then it would behoove them to petition their Congressman/woman and Senators to have them changed. I doubt many Americans are going to want to see the laws diluted…in fact, more would want to see them strengthened.

I really don’t give a hoot as to who “invites” them here. They are not welcome…as per our immigration laws…until such time as they come through the proper channels. I think there is also alot of anger on the part of immigrants who came here legally and had to go through the proper procedures. They wonder why they had to tow the line and jump through the hoops and those who come her illegally would get to stay. I see their point. Answer me this Tex…what would be the problem with those illegally waiting their turn? Why do they think they are ABOVE the law? Please don’t say…the laws are unjust…they ARE the laws on the books now.

:heart:Blyss

 

[Texas_Roofer]

If citizens do not like the immigration laws IN PLACE…then it would behoove them to petition their Congressman/woman and Senators to have them changed. I doubt many Americans are going to want to see the laws diluted…in fact, more would want to see them strengthened.

I really don’t give a hoot as to who “invites” them here. They are not welcome…as per our immigration laws…until such time as they come through the proper channels. I think there is also alot of anger on the part of immigrants who came here legally and had to go through the proper procedures. They wonder why they had to tow the line and jump through the hoops and those who come her illegally would get to stay. I see their point. Answer me this Tex…what would be the problem with those illegally waiting their turn? Why do they think they are ABOVE the law? Please don’t say…the laws are unjust…they ARE the laws on the books now.

:heart:Blyss

umh
In post 37 you said " We are not criminalizing anyone" now you need to change subjects. Isn’t that always the case.