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Ginger2
Guest
Do you ONLY accept the physical aspect of communion?
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Ginger2
Guest
Hmmm, maybe it was the same reason he spoke in parabales.
or maybe…
“They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.” (1Jo 2:19 )
I don’t believe this. Please back up your claim with proof. Name only 1% of these assumed 30,000 denominations.
No, no, no, I want to be charitable. Can you name even 1/4 of 1 %? That should be easy.
1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
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DLC
Guest
It is a major error to look to church history to find our answers. The Bible is sufficient to give us answers to all matters of faith and practice. This view has been held by the early church but was changed as the church changed more into a man centered religion.
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
It doesn’t do so very much - but it does explain some details of the method used in the book which is the source of these figures:
- In reality, Barrett indicates that what he means by “denomination” is any ecclesial body that retains a “jurisdiction” (i.e., semi-autonomy). As an example, Baptist denominations comprise approximately 321 of the total Protestant figure. Yet the lion’s share of Baptist denominations are independent, making them (in Barrett’s calculation) separate denominations. In other words, if there are ten Independent Baptist churches in a given city, even though all of them are identical in belief and practice, each one is counted as a separate denomination due to its autonomy in jurisdiction. This same principle applies to all independent or semi-independent denominations. And even beyond this, all Independent Baptist denominations are counted separately from all other Baptist denominations, even though there might not be a dime’s worth of difference among them. The same principle is operative in Barrett’s count of Roman Catholic denominations. He cites 194 Latin-rite denominations in 1970, by which Barrett means separate jurisdictions (or diocese). Again, a distinction is made on the basis of jurisdiction, rather than differing beliefs and practices.
However Barrett has defined “denomination,” it is clear that he does not think of these as major distinctions; for that is something he reserves for another category.
…
[My emphasis]
So, by Barrett’s method, the CC in the USA is a different jurisdiction (in his sense, for his book; not in the sense the word has in Roman Canon Law) from the CC in Scotland or Australia, and they would presumably count as three churches. Even though all are one in faith & communion.
So one should be extremely careful in using the figures which suggest there are tens of thousands of Protestant churches - because Barrett is not attempting to reflect any one ecclesiology; not even a Protestant one. His interests are sociological - not ecclesiological. So his figures cannot without further ado be quoted as reflecting ecclesiological stats; they don’t.
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alanjeddy
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Sola Scriptura is not scriptual and it shows that 30,000 Protestant faiths can’t come to full agreement in their interpretation of the bible. Disunity is rampant within your ranks.
Come home. Watch the “Journey Home” on EWTN monday nights at 8:00 PM Eastern Time. Marcus Grodi an ex Protestant
Has hundreds and hundreds of Protestants who are coming home to the Catholic Church.
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alanjeddy
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Watch EWTN THE JOURNEY HOME with Marcus Grodi an ex-protestant.
It is a known fact that Protestantism has splintered into 30,000 different denominations. Do your homework! It shouldn’t be surprising. Sola Scriptura doesn’t exist . there is no biblical reference. It is the very reason why your faith has splintered. No authority and when protestants can’t come to an agreement they simply start a new church.
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SearchForGod
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On the contrary. I’m studying history from a Catholic teacher, who I should mention has influenced me to actually find out what Catholicism is all about, and what I’ve learned is that the Church has had many Popes who made enormous mistakes that lead the entire masses of faithful believers into a dark chasm of error.
That is not to say that the Church is some messed up/debauched theological following, in fact to the contrary. Yes, the Church has many historical followings to support it. Islam denies the death of Christ while Josephus and Tacitus both record his death. Many claim that Catholics worship the saints and Mary, but that is less than 5% and they are not in full communion with the Church! Yes, Justin Martyr did record a procession of how the early Church proceeded to the best of their understanding and ability the Mass. It’s all historically backed…
But what else is historically backed is human error. Sin. It seems like ever few decades or so when a new Pope comes along he either threw the Church into a spiral downwards or he brought the Church into closer presence of God. John Paul II, Lord be thanked for his time on this earth, really was (in my opinion) was of the best the Pope’s since Peter. Dare I be so bold, not even a Catholic, but from what I understand Pope John Paul II inspired many priests to be holy where others had fallen short. Even now I am cautioned by my Catholic friends about talking to individual priests because of the few who have been corrupted and the scandals that surround them. “If you find a priest who was sort of… You know… Raised- so to speak under Pope John Paul II then you’ll have better luck… But going to Catholic Answers will have a more diverse array of answers but you’ll get the most faithful there who will speak the truth… They just don’t want to take away from the authority of the Church and that’s why they tell you to talk to a priest.”
I’m hurt, have you forgotten that you are talking about your brothers and sisters in the LORD?
Surely we can behave towards each other like civilized beings. We are not, as St. Thomas Aquinas called them, “Brute animals.” If we cannot treat each other like we actually Love each other, then certainly we cannot convince others that we know of Love.
I believe in communion being the actual body and blood of Christ.
I am partially convinced that what is said about salvation through baptism is true.
I am not sure what you mean by “Marian doctrine” but I’m assuming it has to do with Mary’s perpetual virginity as well as all that other stuff that most Protestants don’t talk about. I believe in that stuff too.
As for Apostolic Succession not being taught in the early Church? What about all the Pope’s? Did they suddenly disappear after Luther and the Moravians? No, I’m afraid that history is quite clear. There has always been a successor to the Apostle Peter.
If I offended anyone with appearing to deny the Pope’s authority or anything like that, I sincerely apologize and repent, for that is not my intention at all.
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alanjeddy
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You will love the Catholic Church for to us much has been given and much is expected. We do not worship Mary or the Saints we pray to them. We only worship God or the Holy Trinity.
Jesus’ one true Catholic and apostolic Church has been under attack from the beginning. Satan knows that if he strikes the shepherd he scatters the flock. No priests , no Eucharist, no Eucharist no Jesus. The Holy Eucharist is the source and summit of our faith. It is the greatest gift that a loving God could ever give to His creation.
I would suggest that you read/listen to Scott Hahn and Father Corapi’s conversion stories. They are powerful. Also EWTN has a wonderful program on Monday nights at 8:00 PM EST. Marcus Grodi, a former protestant minister welcomes former protestants and fallen away Catholics who have come home to the Catholic Church.
God Bless you and may the Holy Spirit guide and protect you always.
I wish you only the best during your spiritual journey
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justasking4
Guest
History is absolutely essential for a Christian since God Himself has worked in history. Secondly by history we can check to see if the church has been faithful to the Scriptures.
Are you saying that all these 30,000 faiths interpret the Scriptures 30,000 different ways?
Is it not also true that all protestant churches believe:
1- Jesus is God?
2- He died for our sins?
3- God in His nature is a Trinity?
4- The gospels are about the life and teachings of Christ?
If there is this rampant chaos they all must have different beliefs about these questions. Do you know if this is the case?
What am i to make of the many who leave the catholic church for protestant churches?
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alanjeddy
Guest
Are you saying that all these 30,000 faiths interpret the Scriptures 30,000 different ways?
Well then you tell me why are there 33,000 different Protestant denominations??? Do you think they are all unified in their interpretation of scripture??? Come on give me an answer?
Well then you tell me why are there 33,000 different Protestant denominations??? Do you think they are all unified in their interpretation of scripture??? Come on give me an answer?
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alanjeddy
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qui_est_ce
Guest
What do these 30,000 faiths teach about the necessity of Baptism? What do they teach about how Salvation is acheived? Do all believe in the Trinity, that is, Jesus is God? (JW’s and Mormans)? What do they teach about Sacraments and the Real Presence, (whether valid in the eyes of the Catholic Church or ote)? What do they teach about WHO and HOW MANY are saved? The Bible tells us so much more about what we need to know about Jesus than
1- Jesus is God?
2- He died for our sins?
3- God in His nature is a Trinity?
4- The gospels are about the life and teachings of Christ?
I suggest talking to them, asking them to witness, same as Catholics do to converts coming into the CC. Since I am involved in RCIA, I love to discuss this and listen to their stories. I have found that most Protestants coming into the CC are genuinly grateful for the Protestant backgrounds that helped them love God. I have never Personally met one that is bitter about his Protestant experience, although I met some who been shunned by their families for becoming Catholic.
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justasking4
Guest
A denomination is different than a church. I don’t think that there are that many denominations. There are many churches though for various reasons. Some churches split to start churches elsewhere. Some do split over theological reasons such as for homosexuality. There are a number of other reasons also.
On some things yes. They all beleive that Christ is God, rose again etc. They all believe in baptism although the modes can be different. They all believe in the Lord’s supper though they may celebrate it at different times.
On some things there are differences.
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justasking4
Guest
Baptism would be required and salvation is only possible be faith as explained for example in I Cor 15:1-4
yes
These would be considered cults and not part of the protestant churches.
Some do have them some don’t. They would all have baptism and the Lord’s supper although not referred to as sacraments in a Roman Catholic sense.
They would agree on the HOW but not HIOW Many.
1- Jesus is God?
2- He died for our sins?
3- God in His nature is a Trinity?
4- The gospels are about the life and teachings of Christ?
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alanjeddy
Guest
Ok. I apologize for not showing enough self constraint and saying some unkind words to you. I hope you can forgive me.
We aren’t going to convert one another so I guess there is nothing left for us to do, but perhaps in the spirit of ecuminism, look for common ground and commonalities in each of our faiths. We both believe in Jesus the Word incarnate. He who is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Just think justasking4, with every beat of our heart we draw closer and closer to that day of inevitability when time gives way to eternity and we stand before our blessed Savior. If we have fought the good battle and lived our lives emulating Jesus in service to others, it is our hope that we will Hear His joyous words,"Well done my good and faithful servant, enter into the joy of your Master’s House.
God Bless you and good-bye.
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justasking4
Guest
Don’t leave. Who knows who benifits from these discussions. i don’t take things personally here. I realize that people are passionate about these things and yet they deserve to be discussed. It helps me think deeper about my faith in Christ etc which is a very good thing. Hopefully it will help others.
Also these forums give us an opportunity to practice self control.
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alanjeddy
Guest
Thank you for your kindness and may our Lord continue to bless , guide and protect you always.
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Ginger2
Guest
Your 33,000 Protestant churches accusation is a myth.
The 33,000 denominations includes Catholic denominations, not just non-Catholic.
It further includes churches that by definition are really cults.
etc., etc., etc.,
The 33,000 denominations includes Catholic denominations, not just non-Catholic.
It further includes churches that by definition are really cults.
etc., etc., etc.,
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alanjeddy
Guest
Ginger, come on, stop being so defensive without doing your homework. You are wrong. Sola Scrriptura has no biblical reference and the protestant churches are in disunity. Everyone interprets the bible with no authority. When you people disagree with each other you pack your bags and simply start another denomination.
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oneGODoneCHURCH
Guest
There are no catholic denominations. If you look that this site
gcts.edu/ockenga/globalchristianity/resources.php
The Catholic church is considered one of the 33,000 denominations.
If a group leaves the Catholic church and starts one of their own no matter what monical they put on the door are how they set up their hierarchy and run their services they are not catholic and there fore not a Catholic denomination. Now with in the Catholic Church you have the Eastern and Western Rites, you also will find
Order of religious communities( Jesuits, Franciscans, Dominicans, ect…) they are not separate denominations.
Ginger I think you are taking the question posted a little to personally
you should also look as the definition of the word cult.
Webster’s New World College Dictionary defines “cult” as:
Code:
1a. a system of religious worship or ritual
1b. a quasi-religious group, often living in a colony, with a charismatic leader who indoctrinates members with unorthodox or extremist views, practices or beliefs
2a. devoted attachment to, or extravagant admiration for, a person, principle or lifestyle, especially when regarded as a fad [the cult of nudism]
2b. the object of such attachment
3. a group of followers, sectPeace in the Lord
Scott
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