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TheLittleLady
Guest
Both Ella and Plan B are obtained without going to a doctor. I’d advise people to work at the local level to have this changed.
The Republican Party has not had a platform against contraception.
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The Republican Party has not had a platform against contraception.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
That depends on how you count services.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
It is, however, prolife, whereas the Dem platform is pro-abortion.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
No, the exemptions in Mr Trump’s own words would allow me and anyone like me to be aborted. Perhaps because this IS personal it makes me more motivated that one may not do evil so that good may come of it.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
You can take that as your personal belief, but the Church does not force that view on all the faithful.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
But one can do even greater evil and be even more guilty.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
We’ve gone round and round, I will never change your mind, as I used to share your views I am not going to be swayed back to those views. Likely best we just don’t talk politics between us.
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OneSheep
Guest
The one he is developing with Iran, starting with getting out of the nuclear deal and forcing sanctions rather than encouraging diplomacy and dialog. And now violence on the ground, unjust acts of war.
Again, it depends on the kind of “socialism” you are talking about. Early Christian communities were essentially socialist or communist. The USSR is the modern example of what we have now defined as socialism in the totalitarian sense, for which your statement is consistent. Democratic Socialism, what Sanders talks about, is more in line with European politics. This model, if it manages to stifle the power of the big banks, corporations, and lobbyists, will bring power back to the people.OneSheep:
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Pretty unlikely. That’s not consistent with socialism.
Trump’s campaign had the appearance of doing the same, but he is just as tied up in the muck as the last few presidents. It’s the lobbyists calling the shots, and since he is a member of the same good ol’ boys club, he goes along. What he has done is completely thrown out any appearance of being a “statesman”. He is not everyone’s president, nor does he try to be. He knows who he is serving, and he serves them, everyone else is to be ignored. It really is no wonder that so many call him “the occupant of the white house”. He is not an extremist, but he panders to the extremes to keep the media riled up about him.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
There is no war with Iran.
I got a tax cut. Most everybody did. He appointed two prolife justices. Dems don’t like that, but plenty of people do. He defeated ISIS. Only ISIS opposes that. He killed the killer of American troops in Iraq. Nobody with any sense ought to oppose that. And nothing happened that Iran wasn’t doing anyway. He caused an upsurge in the stock market. Not many oppose that. He is succeeding in getting some control over the border, which Obama tried to do.
What lobbyists do you think tell him what to do?
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OneSheep
Guest
If there is not, Trump committed murder.
Good for you. Mine increased a lot.
Hopefully, yes, this is the positive I mentioned.
Our nation defeated ISIS, but without Iran’s help it would never have happened.
This is unsupported by fact. Want me to send you an article that tells the truth?
Anyone who reads Just War Theory in the CCC opposes the assassination. None of the criteria were met. (maybe one, but all of them must be met to be just war)
AIPAC, military industrialists, insurance companies, big corporations, banks, big oil, the same ones that control congress. Oh, and which group was behind this conversation?
Scroll down to the part where Parnas is talking to Trump. The whole article is important stuff though.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
Killing a vicious killer of Americans and Arab civilians to prevent him from doing it some more is “murder”?
Congratulations on your raise, then.
Doubtful.
I never said we are at war with Iran. Iran says it’s at war with us. That’s different. To us, Soleimani was a brutal killer of Americans, Iraqis and Syrians, including men, women and children. A
I think I’ll pass. Parnas has already been proved a perjurer.
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OneSheep
Guest
Talk to a US serviceman or read articles on the web. Without Iran, ISIS would still be in control of much of Iraq.
Read the article. It isn’t Parnas talking about it, it is an actual recording and transcript between him and Trump. Otherwise, keep your head in the sand, but don’t claim to know things if you refuse to hear the truth. Parnas pulled the wool over Trump about an American ambassador, it’s obvious, and Trump believed it and received a campaign donation of over 300K with the promise of 1M.
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OneSheep
Guest
Again, there is little evidence of either he or his direct charges killing any Americans. And yes, killing someone because they might commit further acts of murder is murder unless it follows the guidelines of Just War Doctrine, which it does not:
Avoiding war
2307 The fifth commandment forbids the intentional destruction of human life. Because of the evils and injustices that accompany all war, the Church insistently urges everyone to prayer and to action so that the divine Goodness may free us from the ancient bondage of war.105
2308 All citizens and all governments are obliged to work for the avoidance of war.
However, “as long as the danger of war persists and there is no international authority with the necessary competence and power, governments cannot be denied the right of lawful self-defense, once all peace efforts have failed.” (Trump admin efforts did more to undo relations with Iran than to actually improve things through diplomacy)
2309 The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time:
- the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain; (imminence has not been proven, nor past accusations verified)
- all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective; (there was no effort at diplomacy with this man who was considered a hero for leading the effort to defeat ISIS.)
- there must be serious prospects of success; (Soleimani was simply replaced, there is no proof that their military plans changed, whatever they were.)
- the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition. (there is now more, not less chaos in Iraq, and now their government wants the US out)
The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good. (The US is no more responsible for the common good in Iraq than the government of Iraq is in the US. Their government is responsible for their own common good, and they disapproved of our action.)
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CatholicSooner
Guest
wow. tongue in cheek hopefully. If not, quite ironicsaintlouisblues19:
I also don’t give a hoot if some other Catholic “despises” me, cuz he’s the one who’s sinning by not loving his neighbor, me.
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augustinegirl
Guest
As a woman who has many “women friends”…yeah, most of us think abortion is horrible and actually don’t want it to be an option. And here’s the most shocking part: we’re all under 30.
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phil19034
Guest
No, not really. SOME of them are, but in my experience, most Republicans are 100% against abortion at all time.
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phil19034
Guest
??? The draft has not been used since Vietnam.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
No. It really is. If I sell arms to terrorists that I know are going to use them to murder people in the next village, I am a murderer too, despite the fact that my objective was money, not killing. If I put people into power who support abortion “rights”, I’m as guilty of the killing as the “doctor” who wields the scalpel.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
There is plenty of evidence that he was instrumental in the killing and maiming of hundreds of Americans. But he was also the architect of the killing of many more Arabs. And there was no “might” to his future killing. Killing was his job, and he was returning from instructing one group of killers to instruct another.
And in any event, it is just to respond with force against an Iran that has declared war on America and carries it out in various ways.
My goodness, I don’t think peace efforts with Iran have stopped since the Carter administration. The cleric billionaires who run Iran are not interested in peace. They arm Hezbollah. The rockets Hamas sends to kill Israelis come from Iran. They are allied with Assad and have provided fighters to kill civilians in Syria. His Houthi fighters have sent rockets into Saudi Arabia.
And Solemeini was the mastermind of all that. And you seem to be unaware that he and his forces were considered a grave threat by Israel and most of the Arab states, as well as the Sunni and Kurds in Iraq.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
What I have found is that a startling number of pro-life Republicans do not realize that their party includes the loopholes/exceptions nor how many abortions occur inside those exceptions. The people who are in leadership positions at State RTL and other big Republican &/or Pro Life groups do know, they are either silent on it or when pressed will give the standard talking points of incrementalism. They also refuse to make a stand against embryo creation for IVF. Tragic.
Some of us truly believe that after half a century, incrementalism needs to be turned on it’s head.
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