Can a "normal Joe" interpret Bible passages/scripture?

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Nicene:
And I hear this quoted often which is in fact a religious system taught by men. Go figure. There is no religoius system safer than the one that says I don’t have to take responsibility for my actions. The fact is this is used as a kind of trump card when they really have nothing to say because they follow a man made doctrine, not one from Christ.

Sola Fide
Sola Scriptura
Me and Jesus

Slogans from a religious system, but nothing more than slogans. Surface without depth.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
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I believe their approach to God is Oh,Sola Meo

However, we can not come to Christ on our terms. We can, on His terms. And His terms include the only Church He founded.

As the card player might say… " ya in? , ya out?.."
 
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VociMike:
God is everywhere, isn’t He? That must include every temple built by human hands. So what point are you trying to make?
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You do realize that Im quoting scripture? Dont you?
 
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Nicene:
And I hear this quoted often which is in fact a religious system taught by men. Go figure. There is no religoius system safer than the one that says I don’t have to take responsibility for my actions. The fact is this is used as a kind of trump card when they really have nothing to say because they follow a man made doctrine, not one from Christ.

Sola Fide
Sola Scriptura
Me and Jesus

Slogans from a religious system, but nothing more than slogans. Surface without depth.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
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To walk with God and to hear is voice, this is surface without depth? I think not.
 
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MrS:
I believe their approach to God is Oh,Sola Meo

However, we can not come to Christ on our terms. We can, on His terms. And His terms include the only Church He founded.

As the card player might say… " ya in? , ya out?.."
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Christ is a free gift to all who would recieve, nothing more, nothing less.
 
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SolaChristo:
God wants each of us to walk with Him, to have a personal relationship with Him, to hear His voice. Many Christians are bound by fear and are looking for something safer----a religious system where they wont have to walk with God.
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I actually find that almost indescribably offensive. I am not bound by fear. I am on my way to becoming Catholic because I was looking not for something safer, but for truth. “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.” He does not change. He is “the truth, the life, and the way.” There is only one truth, one life, and one way. He came down from Heaven, humbling himself to take on flesh, and to hang bleeding on a cross, shamed. He did this to me from my faults and my sins. He came down and did this for free; all He asked is that if we love Him, we keep his commandments. I decided one day I just loved Him too much, and knew he loved me far more, to simply be content with just any church. I wanted His church. I didn’t know which that was, or if it still even existed. I wanted to worship at the place that kept His commandments, His teachings, and His instrcutions the best. What’s more, I wanted to worship at a church which showed the most reverence, love, and respect for my Lord. I didn’t know where that was, but I set my mind on finding it. I prayed to my Lord, and asked Him to help me. I set out to find the truth. I found it here. I found the one church that still does things the way Christ asked. I found a Church that shows more reverence for Our Lord then I have ever seen. I am here because I sought truth. I think you would find that there aren’t a lot of Catholics who are bound by fear, or reliant on the system. We are here because of truth, and for no other reason.

Think about it. Thousands and thousands convert to Catholicism each year. Their motivation is usually a search for truth, a search that leads them to the Church, often despite great prejudices against Her. The truth brings people here past a line that many people swear they will never cross. Only the truth can do that. Thousands and thousands leave the Church each year, too. Their motivation is usually pain, or a disagreement with Her, or the preaching of a man. These motivations are not concerend with the truth. They are not concerned with selflessness, as was the life of Christ. They are concerned with personal selfishness. I am hurt by the Church, I believe contraception is acceptable, I shouldn’t have to follow this system. These motivations are based on I, me, my feelings, my wants. My motivation, and that of most converts to Catholicism, is based on Him, His commandments, His teachings, His TRUTH.

I am hear because of truth. Why are you there?
 
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SolaChristo:
God does not live in a temple made of hands.
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Since we have scriptural testimony that God is very much present everywhere, we cannot exclude his presence even from places “made by human hands” and certainly not from the sacred elements of the Eucharist nor from the tabernacle. Catholics would read that verse as meaning “The life of God is not limited to places made by human hands.”

The first Mass reading for today actually addresses this very point.

I Kg 8:6-11

Then the priests brought the ark of the covenant of the Lord to its place, in the inner sanctuary of the house, in the most holy place, underneath the wings of the cherubim. For the cherubim spread out their wings over the place of the ark, so that the cherubim made a covering above the ark . . . There was nothing in the ark except the two tables of stone which Moses put there at Horeb**,** where the Lord made a covenant with the people of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt. And when the priests came out of the holy place, a cloud filled the house of the Lord, . . . for the glory of the Lord filled the house of the Lord.

Catholics read the Old Testament as a foreshadowing of the Covenant fulfilled in the person of Jesus Christ. So when we read that, we see in it a type of Christ’s presence in the Church – both in our hearts and in the Tabernacle.

Note that Hebrews 9:4 says that the ark “contained a golden urn holding the manna, and Aaron’s rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant.”

Catholics see in the manna, the type of Christ who is the bread, whose flesh is given for the life of the world. (cf Jn 6:51); in Aaron’s rod we see the sign of Christ’s high priesthood; in the tables of the covenant, or commandments (the Hebrew word for commandment is “dabar” = word), we see the Word of God: Christ himself.

Anyway, I’m “normal Joe” and that is how I interpret these passages of Scripture. I believe my reading is inspired by the Holy Spirit, and am confirmed in that belief because nothing in my understanding of these texts contradicts either Scripture itself or the teaching of the Church.
 
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SolaChristo:
Christ is a free gift to all who would recieve, nothing more, nothing less.
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If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father’s who sent me.
 
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SolaChristo:
Christ is a free gift to all who would recieve, nothing more, nothing less.
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The Real Presence… as explained in John 6… is His free gift to all those who follow His teaching - in full. Not piecemeal… not pick-n-choose.

NOTHING LESS !!

ya in? ya out?
 
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SolaChristo:
To walk with God and to hear is voice, this is surface without depth? I think not.
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The presumption is that in saying this you also imply we do not walk with God. That is egocentric, not christocentric. To hear his voice is to keep his commands.

Christ set up a church that we may be guided, he did not leave us orphans. He sent the Holy Spirit to guide it. When the revolters didn’t like what the church had to say they went on their own:

Matthew 18:17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

The church of me and Jesus is contrary to what Christ established, in fact is says this prayer was not answered by the Father:

John 17:15: I do not pray that thou shouldst take them out of the world, but that thou shouldst keep them from the evil one.
16: They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17: Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth.
18: As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world.
19: And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth.
20: "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word,
21: that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

The Holy Spirit is unity, oneness with God in trinity and with each other. Satan is the author of disunity, causing division upon division each saying I know God.

The great deception, his second greatest achievement next to Islam. Houses built on sand which continue to fall and divide, disunity, disharmony.

Those who know Christ know this because they are one with the bride of Christ, one with God in trinity, fulfilling the prayer the Father granted in answer to Christ.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
The bottom line here, and we hate hearing this as Americans, is that when we attempt to interpret scripture, we normally screw it up. I see this all the time in my life. Over and over, I deal with Fundamentalists that think that they have a really good bead on things. They bring scripture to go to war with the Church and I see the same things over and over…they pull scripture out of context and then bend it to support their view. They refuse to let scripture stand on its own. It is simple…words have meaning people. All you have to do is read them, and when you do you find Rome.

Brad
 
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sadie2723:
The bottom line here, and we hate hearing this as Americans, is that when we attempt to interpret scripture, we normally screw it up. I see this all the time in my life. Over and over, I deal with Fundamentalists that think that they have a really good bead on things. They bring scripture to go to war with the Church and I see the same things over and over…they pull scripture out of context and then bend it to support their view. They refuse to let scripture stand on its own. It is simple…words have meaning people. All you have to do is read them, and when you do you find Rome.

Brad
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No doubt, the apostles spoke of such as these:

2 Pet 3:15: And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,16: speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.
17: You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability.
18: But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

1 John 2:19: They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out, that it might be plain that they all are not of us.
20: But you have been anointed by the Holy One, and you all know.

Only those annointed by the Holy One know Him, and count on the Lord for salvation, not the doctrines of men who went out from us.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
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sadie2723:
The bottom line here, and we hate hearing this as Americans, is that when we attempt to interpret scripture, we normally screw it up. I see this all the time in my life. Over and over, I deal with Fundamentalists that think that they have a really good bead on things. They bring scripture to go to war with the Church and I see the same things over and over…they pull scripture out of context and then bend it to support their view. They refuse to let scripture stand on its own. It is simple…words have meaning people. All you have to do is read them, and when you do you find Rome.

Brad
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As a Roman Catholic, I too refuse to let scripture stand on its own. After all, my Church came first, and Scripture is a teaching product of the Church.

Three legs on the “stool” of witnesses to Truth… Scripture, Tradition, the Magisterium.

Can’t have one without the other two. Period.
 
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Lazerlike42:
If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father’s who sent me.
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/nod. Well said.

The Father does not make a home in those who do not keep Christ’s word. If they loved him they would keep his word and they would know him.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
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SolaChristo:
To walk with God and to hear is voice, this is surface without depth? I think not.
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If you heard Gods voice his word wouldn’t be diminished to punch lines and slogans. That is why it is shallow, hearing the voice of self, not of God.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
vern humphrey:
Which leaves us scratching our heads and wondering how, in less that 500 years Protestantism has split, fragmented and re-split into thousands of denominations.
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I’d just like to interject on this comment that keeps appearing along the way in this thread…

The Lord allowed the persecution of the early church so that His plan would be fulfilled that they would SPREAD OUT and go make nations of disciples for Him. (That’s a rough paraphrase.)

The Lord is not going to be disappointed that the protestant groups have SPREAD OUT…I believe the “Church” is the Faithful in Christ. Guided to all truth by the Holy Spirit. Any division is of the devil…sure we can debate about certain interpretations…but the basic truth is that we must LOVE God and Love our neighbor and spread the Truth of His Son and the Grace of the New Covenant. Anything less, and we do a disservice to Him and His Glory.

Not to say that we shouldn’t be wary of false teachings. We simply MUST pray, search His Word, humble ourselves and wait on Him.

My problem with the idea that the OHRCC is the “author” of the Bible and that the Pope or the Mag. is the ONE interpreter is that there are NONE in this life who are “infallible” and the idea that we should trust any to be, right there, appears to me to be heretical.

The WORD stands as inspired. The humans God used to put it together are irrelevant (is not about MAN it is all about His Sovereignty and so NONE can boast). The fact is that the Lord sent HIS WORD — HIS SON — HIS TRUTH…and that we who seek His kingdom shall be given His grace. And HIS GRACE is sufficient —meaning, don’t add to it doctrines of men, traditions of men, or anything else to confuse your people.

That’s the impetus for the reformation…some felt that things were being added to the simple truth of Grace.

There’s all kinds of doctrinal differences beyond these points, but the one basic TRUTH is, LOVE ONE ANOTHER. (Now I hear you thinking…sure this means we can do anything we want…but Did you not hear what I am saying? SEEK FIRST HIS KINGDOM–and you’ll obey HIS COMMANDS…you won’t be willy nilly and washed to and fro by the waves of the sea…etc. etc…) 🙂

I love you!
D.
 
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Nicene:
If you heard Gods voice his word wouldn’t be diminished to punch lines and slogans. That is why it is shallow, hearing the voice of self, not of God.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
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The Scribes and Pharasees in Jesus day knew the religious system but did not know God for if they had they would have recognized Jesus. The new covenant that Jesus put in place is for everyman to know God on a personal level, no cliches no slogans but the Almighty, Transcendent Creator of all things. not a religious system.
 
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SolaChristo:
You do realize that Im quoting scripture? Dont you?
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Yes, I realize it perfectly. And I have pointed out that God is everywhere, and that would include temples built by human hands. So what is your point in quoting this scripture? What do you think the phrase means, when it is so clearly false in the literal sense? If God is not in the tabernacles of Catholic Churches then He is not omnipresent. Do you claim that God is not omnipresent?
 
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Doreen:
The WORD stands as inspired. The humans God used to put it together are irrelevant (is not about MAN it is all about His Sovereignty and so NONE can boast). The fact is that the Lord sent HIS WORD — HIS SON — HIS TRUTH…and that we who seek His kingdom shall be given His grace. And HIS GRACE is sufficient —meaning, don’t add to it doctrines of men, traditions of men, or anything else to confuse your people.
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I just need to add that there is ONE SPIRIT…and when Jesus was about to ascend to heaven, he encouraged the Disciples by saying that he must go so that the SPIRT OF TRUTH might come to them and to “guide them in all truth.”

John 14:15-21
15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.
16 and I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever —
17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.
18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live.
20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.
21 Whoever has my commands (has=keeps them in their heart, delights in them, submits to them) and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.”

How can we add to that? Jesus is our GREAT TEACHER. I used to teach, and one tactic I used was to always “REPEAT WHAT IS GOING TO BE ON THE TEST!” I also would often precede the important information with “Now pay attention.” Or “Remember this…” Jesus precedes all of his “bottom lines” with “I tell you the truth” – ever notice that? Do a concordance study on it sometime and see whether you need anyone (other than the Holy Spirit) to help you discern his message!

In John 14 read on with me:
Then Judas(not Judas Iscariot) said, “But Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”
In verse 23 Jesus replied,
"If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching (sound familiar?). My Father will love him, and we will come to him (i.e. The Holy Spirit) and make our home with him. (Indwelling in us.)
24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching.
(He even shows that he, too, is inspired and guided by the Spirit of God…) These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
25 All this I have spoken while still with you.
26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
(This is where the “religious” are separated by the “Spiritual”.)

The key to discernment is to have the Spirit…the key to the Spirit is to “submit” to the LORD as GOD…your personal King…Lord of your life. And to know Christ, His Son, as your Saviour…through whose very Name the Spirit comes.

“That if you CONFESS with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with you mouth that you confess and are saved.” Romans 10:9 and 10

Doesn’t matter what “Church” you find this in…God can reach us where ever we are at. Ours is to respond.

In His Mercy and Grace,
D.
 
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