Can a soul function without a body?

[billcu1]

I’m spinning this question off from a thread concerning something else. It has come to my attention that the body cannot function without a soul. I wish someone more learned about the souls(s) than I to answer this. Angels are one of countless denizens of beings that exist though we as catholic talk about them so I will use them as an example. Angels function properly without a body. They are soul and spirit. How are they different than us?

 

[Bookcat]

Angels are spirit. That is their nature.

Our nature is yes an embodied soul.

It is an unnatural state for us to be in after death. God enables us to then “function” in that unnatural state until the resurrection.

At the resurrection we will again receive our body…a glorified body.

 

[Gorgias]

Angels are spirit. That is their nature.

Our nature is yes an embodied soul.

It is an unnatural state for us to be in after death. God enables us to then “function” in that unnatural state until the resurrection.

At the resurrection we will again receive our body…a glorified body.

That ‘function’ of soul (sans body) is, of course, a different function than when soul and body are united; it becomes somewhat ‘like’ the function of angels (i.e., it does not include sensory perception), but does not become identical to that of angels.

Of course, when we have ‘glorified’ bodies, there will be a difference, too, seemingly, since our glorified bodies will have potential that our fallen human bodies do not have. In some way, though, these abilities will not modify our nature, per se.

 

[Robert_Sock]

“Just as a blind man is unable to form any idea about colors, or a deaf person to fathom what it means to hear sounds… so the body cannot comprehend the delights of the soul… For we live in a material world, and the only kind of pleasure we can understand is that experienced through our body. But the joys of the spirit are everlasting and ceaseless. There is no resemblance of any kind between the enjoyments of the soul and those of the body.”
–The twelfth-century philosopher-rabbi, Maimonides

 

[GEddie]

The “human soul” survives death because immaterial and so not subject to entropy.

It’s functioning, however, requires a body, whether the “human body” we know, or the pneumatikon soma. “The soul” is not independent; it is the soul of the body.

ICXC NIKA

 

[ivebeenshown]

The soul is the human ‘form’, and it is self-subsistent. Take for instance an apple: once decayed to a certain point, there is no longer an apple. The apple subsisted in matter that adhered to a particular form. Our bodies are matter that adhere to our human form, and in particular, our personally unique human forms that we call souls.

So, how do we know that the human being subsists in its own soul and not necessarily in both soul and body, unlike other things which subsist in both matter and form? With our intellect, we may know of material things. But similar to how the color of a liquid is invisible to the eye and thus unknowable to the mind when contained within an opaque container, if it were in the nature of the mind to be material, the mind would be its own ‘opaque container’, and could not know of other material things.

Now if we establish that the soul is immaterial and that intellect is the power of the soul as such, then we establish that the soul does operate on its own, as knowledge is the operation of the intellect.

 

[billcu1]

The soul is the human ‘form’, and it is self-subsistent. Take for instance an apple: once decayed to a certain point, there is no longer an apple. The apple subsisted in matter that adhered to a particular form. Our bodies are matter that adhere to our human form, and in particular, our personally unique human forms that we call souls.

So, how do we know that the human being subsists in its own soul and not necessarily in both soul and body, unlike other things which subsist in both matter and form? With our intellect, we may know of material things. But similar to how the color of a liquid is invisible to the eye and thus unknowable to the mind when contained within an opaque container, if it were in the nature of the mind to be material, the mind would be its own ‘opaque container’, and could not know of other material things.

Now if we establish that the soul is immaterial and that intellect is the power of the soul as such, then we establish that the soul does operate on its own, as knowledge is the operation of the intellect.

I’ve always thougth the spirit works on and though a body to create a soul and eventually a fully functioning soul might be all we are. For example in my instance my spirit has male organs because I’m a man and they in order to function must be present in the spirit too. Now soul wise however there are both male and female from lives of being man and woman (most recently in the 1500s). Does this make sense?

 

[ivebeenshown]

I’ve always thougth the spirit works on and though a body to create a soul and eventually a fully functioning soul might be all we are.

Immediately with the formation of the zygote, God creates the unique human soul (or souls in the case that the zygote may develop into more than one body.) This is because the soul is in itself the form of the human body, and what we discern with the senses as being the human body is just the matter that adheres to that form.

For example in my instance my spirit has male organs because I’m a man and they in order to function must be present in the spirit too. Now soul wise however there are both male and female from lives of being man and woman (most recently in the 1500s). Does this make sense?

I’m sorry, this does not resonate with me.

 

[DaveBj]

The soul can function without the body, but not in the physical universe. In other words, it can’t open a door or turn the light-switch off. It needs a body (an earth-suit) to do those things, but it can function. It is still alive.

 

[Robert_Sock]

The soul can function without the body, but not in the physical universe. In other words, it can’t open a door or turn the light-switch off. It needs a body (an earth-suit) to do those things, but it can function. It is still alive.

 

[tonyrey]

The soul can function without the body, but not in the physical universe. In other words, it can’t open a door or turn the light-switch off. It needs a body (an earth-suit) to do those things, but it can function. It is still alive.

The body is not responsible for what it does…

 

[GEddie]

The body is not responsible for what it does…

And yet bodies are “justly” punished both civilly (via shackles, execution, etc) and eschatologically (by death and Hell) for actions their mind used them to commit.

You can’t meaningfully tease apart a human being. If “responsibility” lies with the mind, “action” requires a body. You need both.

ICXC NIKA

 

[DaveBj]

And yet bodies are “justly” punished both civilly (via shackles, execution, etc) and eschatologically (by death and Hell) for actions their mind used them to commit.

You can’t meaningfully tease apart a human being. If “responsibility” lies with the mind, “action” requires a body. You need both.

ICXC NIKA

Exactly. And the “punishment” of the bodies also punishes the souls, since they are contained within the bodies (except for the period between physical death and the resurrection).

 

[tonyrey]

And yet bodies are “justly” punished both civilly (via shackles, execution, etc) and eschatologically (by death and Hell) for actions their mind used them to commit.

You can’t meaningfully tease apart a human being. If “responsibility” lies with the mind, “action” requires a body. You need both.

ICXC NIKA

Physical actions require a body but mental acts such as choices and decisions do not.

 

[GEddie]

Physical actions require a body but mental acts such as choices and decisions do not.

Mental actions only matter if accompanied by physical action; thinking nice thoughts about someone does not help them; thinking nastily does not hurt them.

 

[tonyrey]

Mental actions only matter if accompanied by physical action; thinking nice thoughts about someone does not help them; thinking nastily does not hurt them.

Then prayer must be a waste of time…

 

[Hamlet123]

I’m spinning this question off from a thread concerning something else. It has come to my attention that the body cannot function without a soul. I wish someone more learned about the souls(s) than I to answer this. Angels are one of countless denizens of beings that exist though we as catholic talk about them so I will use them as an example. Angels function properly without a body. They are soul and spirit. How are they different than us?

vbvbvb

 

[GEddie]

vbvbvb

I don’t know what that means but in answer to the preceding:

Angels are not soul and spirit. They are pure spirit, which is not the same as a soul.

Soul is a “form” of spirit, whose mission, in human life, is to animate (from Latin, anima, meaning soul) a human body. They are separable, as punishment (death); however, they are not separate. The soul is the life of the body; the body is the external being of the soul.

An angel, as pure spirit, never had a body and is not designed for one. The human soul is wholly designed to animate its body. Soul provides body with life and mind; body provides soul with form, movement and sensation.

Because angels are designed without need for a body, a body is extraneous to them. A body, by contrast, is intrinsic to the functioning of a human soul.

ICXC NIKA

 

[DaveBj]

snip

A body, by contrast, is intrinsic to the functioning of a human soul.

ICXC NIKA

. . . if the human soul is to be functioning in this physical universe.

 

[Hamlet123]

I don’t know what that means but in answer to the preceding:

Angels are not soul and spirit. They are pure spirit, which is not the same as a soul.

Soul is a “form” of spirit, whose mission, in human life, is to animate (from Latin, anima, meaning soul) a human body. They are separable, as punishment (death); however, they are not separate. The soul is the life of the body; the body is the external being of the soul.

An angel, as pure spirit, never had a body and is not designed for one. The human soul is wholly designed to animate its body. Soul provides body with life and mind; body provides soul with form, movement and sensation.

Because angels are designed without need for a body, a body is extraneous to them. A body, by contrast, is intrinsic to the functioning of a human soul.

ICXC NIKA

No offense, GE. Whenever I want to follow a blog on CA I just put a couple of letters in and I am a part of it without having to “say” anything.

Clear, to the point, understandable and the correct answer.