Can a soul function without a body?

[Nita]

I have to ask here, is Jesus and God a liar?When Jesus was resurrected, He was resurrected back to a flesh and blood body, am I right? Hence, He even ate a fish meal with the disciples.

First, Jesus was not a liar. Alleluia, right?

And yes, it was Jesus’ physical body that was raised from the dead. But it was not the same as before He died; there were differences. To give a few examples:

Prior to His crucifixion His body was “mortal” (it could suffer physical death).
After His crucifixion His body was “immortal” (it cannot suffer physical death).

Jesus’ mortal physical body could not pass thru a physical closed door.
Jesus’ resurrected body could. (John 20:19)

After the resurrection Jesus could alter His physical appearance such that acquaintances did not recognize Him. (Luke 24:13-31)

So it will be a real physical body (as you noted, Jesus ate real food), but there will be differences once it is “immortal” - it will be spiritualized, if you will - what Paul refers to in the 1 Cor 15 as a “celestial body” and a “spiritual body”. It will be subject to our spirit/soul, which for those who are in heaven means a human soul/spirit in conformity to God’s will.
(I shudder to think what the resurrected bodies of those in hell will look like.)

Also when He resurrected the little girl and his friend Lazarus, they were resurrected back to life in their human bodies. They did not come back as spirits.

When Jesus raised the little girl and Lazarus they came back to life in their mortal bodies. The still had to undergo a physical death. They still had to live out their physical life here on earth.
We will receive our immortal (resurrected) bodies only at the end of the world when God raises all the dead – when we will no longer be living here on earth but will be either in heaven or hell.

So then,the way the events take place,that is how we are to believe right.

Yes.

Jesus never said anywhere in the Bible we would be resurrected or become a spirit did He? If He did, please refer me to the passage in the Bible that shows that.

Jesus taught not only by word but by deed. When He died and was buried He raised up His body into a body that was different from previously. In addition to the previous examples, it was a body that could rise up into the heavens and no longer be here on earth when He chose. This is teaching us what we can expect after death by His example/deed.

Here are some of His words; ponder them; I hope they will help you.

Matt. 22:29-32 But Jesus answered them, “You are wrong, because you know neither the scriptures nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. And as for the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living.”

Also if God wanted us to be a spirit and live in the spirit world,then why did he make us human?Why would he not of just made us a spirit from the beginning like he did with the angels? Can anyone answer that?

God did/does not intend us to live eternally as disembodied spirits. We will only be temporarily in that state until the final judgement at the end of the world when Our Lord comes in glory. (Mt. 25:31-46)
After that, the world we will live eternally in heaven as humans composed of spiritual souls reunited to our immortal resurrected bodies.

Have I answered your questions?

What have you been taught in regards to what will happen when you die?

 

[BarryI]

First, Jesus was not a liar. Alleluia, right?

And yes, it was Jesus’ physical body that was raised from the dead. But it was not the same as before He died; there were differences. To give a few examples:

Prior to His crucifixion His body was “mortal” (it could suffer physical death).
After His crucifixion His body was “immortal” (it cannot suffer physical death).

Jesus’ mortal physical body could not pass thru a physical closed door.
Jesus’ resurrected body could. (John 20:19)

After the resurrection Jesus could alter His physical appearance such that acquaintances did not recognize Him. (Luke 24:13-31)

So it will be a real physical body (as you noted, Jesus ate real food), but there will be differences once it is “immortal” - it will be spiritualized, if you will - what Paul refers to in the 1 Cor 15 as a “celestial body” and a “spiritual body”. It will be subject to our spirit/soul, which for those who are in heaven means a human soul/spirit in conformity to God’s will.
(I shudder to think what the resurrected bodies of those in hell will look like.)

When Jesus raised the little girl and Lazarus they came back to life in their mortal bodies. The still had to undergo a physical death. They still had to live out their physical life here on earth.
We will receive our immortal (resurrected) bodies only at the end of the world when God raises all the dead – when we will no longer be living here on earth but will be either in heaven or hell.

Yes.

Jesus taught not only by word but by deed. When He died and was buried He raised up His body into a body that was different from previously. In addition to the previous examples, it was a body that could rise up into the heavens and no longer be here on earth when He chose. This is teaching us what we can expect after death by His example/deed.

Here are some of His words; ponder them; I hope they will help you.

God did/does not intend us to live eternally as disembodied spirits. We will only be temporarily in that state until the final judgement at the end of the world when Our Lord comes in glory. (Mt. 25:31-46)
After that, the world we will live eternally in heaven as humans composed of spiritual souls reunited to our immortal resurrected bodies.

Have I answered your questions?

What have you been taught in regards to what will happen when you die?

Ok are any of the prophets who came before Jesus in Heaven?

 

[Nita]

Ok are any of the prophets who came before Jesus in Heaven?

Well, I think we can say for a certainty that Moses and Elijah are (because of the Transfiguration scene). Also John the Baptist. (cf. Mt. 11:11)
Beyond that, I’m not qualified to say who is in heaven and who is not. It is God who judges. He knows which individuals, by name, are in heaven.
My personal opinion/thoughts would be that all of the OT prophets who were faithful to God, as well as all people who lived before Jesus and sought to love and obey God are in heaven.

What are your thoughts?

P.S. Thought of 3 more – Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (cf. Mt. 22:32)
Someone can probably come up with more specific individuals which Scripture identifies by name as being among the “living” in the next life.

 

[BarryI]

Well, I think we can say for a certainty that Moses and Elijah are (because of the Transfiguration scene). Also John the Baptist. (cf. Mt. 11:11)
Beyond that, I’m not qualified to say who is in heaven and who is not. It is God who judges. My personal opinion/thoughts would be that all of the OT prophets who were faithful to God, as well as all people who lived before Jesus and sought to love and obey God are in heaven.

What are your thoughts?

As per John3:13 “No one has ascended into Heaven except the one who came down from Heaven,the Son Of Man” Based on this scripture spoken by Jesus himself,no human being has gone up to heaven, so then, all are in the ground until the Resurrection. There is no one who has passed on that is a spirit or spirit form. Also Jesus notes that others have "fallen asleèp indicating what happens when we die. . We sleep until we are resurrected

 

[Nita]

Ok are any of the prophets who came before Jesus in Heaven?

I’m still hoping you will share your beliefs regarding what happens to us after death. But if you’re not comfortable doing so, or are still unsure of what to believe, that’s okay.

 

[BarryI]

I’m still hoping you will share your beliefs regarding what happens to us after death. But if you’re not comfortable doing so, or are still unsure of what to believe, that’s okay.

After death we are in the ground… Asleep until we are resurrected on judgement day.Also, we do not to to some other place like purgatory. It doesn’t exist. Jesus never spoke about such a place, nor did God. When we die we do not go anywhere else to “purge our sins” . To do so would be calling God a liar, as He Himself said “the wages of sin is death” , meaning ALL of our sins are forgiven. To think otherwise would be not believing Him, and Calling Him a liar.

 

[Nita]

As per John3:13 “No one has ascended into Heaven except the one who came down from Heaven,the Son Of Man” Based on this scripture spoken by Jesus himself,no human being has gone up to heaven, so then, all are in the ground until the Resurrection.

“Ascending” refers to the body and Catholics agree that our bodies do not ascend to heaven right after physical death. The passage from John’s gospel is very thought provoking since Jesus said those words** before **He had died and ascended. (John 3:13 “No one has ascended into heaven but he who descended from heaven, the Son of man.”)

There is no one who has passed on that is a spirit or spirit form.

1 Sam 28:8 So Saul disguised himself and put on other garments, and went, he and two men with him; and they came to the woman by night. And he said, “Divine for me by a spirit, and bring up for me whomever I shall name to you.” …
28:11 Then the woman said, “Whom shall I bring up for you?” He said, “Bring up Samuel for me.” …
28:14 He said to her, “What is his appearance?” And she said, “An old man is coming up; and he is wrapped in a robe.” And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground, and did obeisance. 28:15 Then Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”

Also Jesus notes that others have "fallen asleèp indicating what happens when we die. . We sleep until we are resurrected

What Jesus did in the miracles where He speaks of “falling asleep” or “sleeping”, was to restore life to their physical bodies. The reference to sleeping is in connection to the state of their physical body - not their spiritual soul.

As to the spiritual soul in those who have died, Jesus speaks of them as “living” (in regards to those who remained united to God’s will).
Mt. 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living."

 

[BarryI]

“Ascending” refers to the body and Catholics agree that our bodies do not ascend to heaven right after physical death. The passage from John’s gospel is very thought provoking since Jesus said those words** before **He had died and ascended. (John 3:13 “No one has ascended into heaven but he who descended from heaven, the Son of man.”)

What Jesus did in the miracles where He speaks of “falling asleep” or “sleeping”, was to restore life to their physical bodies. The reference to sleeping is in connection to the state of their physical body - not their spiritual soul.

As to the spiritual soul in those who have died, Jesus speaks of them as “living” (in regards to those who remained united to God’s will).
Mt. 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living."

Ok then in Matthew 5:6 in the Beatitudes Jesus says "blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. If we were to go to heaven , then why would the meek inherit the earth ?

 

[Nita]

After death we are in the ground… Asleep until we are resurrected on judgement day.

Catholics also believe that about our bodies, but not our souls. Altho we would not call it being asleep; we would say our bodies are dead. As a matter of fact, it is precisely because the soul has left the body that the body is dead and no longer alive.
It’s the body that gets resurrected - not the soul.

I have a feeling we differ in our understandings about what the human soul is. And that is where the problem between us arises. (As we seem to agree about the body and what happens to it after death.)

Also, we do not to to some other place like purgatory. It doesn’t exist. Jesus never spoke about such a place, nor did God. When we die we do not go anywhere else to “purge our sins” . To do so would be calling God a liar, as He Himself said “the wages of sin is death” , meaning ALL of our sins are forgiven. To think otherwise would be not believing Him, and Calling Him a liar.

To go into purgatory would definitely sidetrack this thread. I’ll be very willing to discuss that with you, but you should open a separate thread about it. You could just title it “Does Purgatory Exist” and then just copy what you say above as your opening post.

Altho I have to say it would be helpful to sort of clear up any differences in our understandings about what constitutes the human soul first since it is only the human soul that experiences purgatory – not the human body. Catholics do not believe purgatory still exists after the resurrection of the body.

If you do decide to open a thread, would you make note of it in a post here. Then I will know to look for it.

 

[Nita]

Ok then in Matthew 5:6 in the Beatitudes Jesus says "blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. If we were to go to heaven , then why would the meek inherit the earth ?

How do you understand “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit/possess the earth/land.”?

 

[BarryI]

Catholics also believe that about our bodies, but not our souls. Altho we would not call it being asleep; we would say our bodies are dead. As a matter of fact, it is precisely because the soul has left the body that the body is dead and no longer alive.
It’s the body that gets resurrected - not the soul.

I have a feeling we differ in our understandings about what the human soul is. And that is where the problem between us arises. (As we seem to agree about the body and what happens to it after death.)

To go into purgatory would definitely sidetrack this thread. I’ll be very willing to discuss that with you, but you should open a separate thread about it. You could just title it “Does Purgatory Exist” and then just copy what you say above as your opening post.

Altho I have to say it would be helpful to sort of clear up any differences in our understandings about what constitutes the human soul first since it is only the human soul that experiences purgatory – not the human body. Catholics do not believe purgatory still exists after the resurrection of the body.

If you do decide to open a thread, would you make note of it in a post here. Then I will know to look for it.

Ok I do not see anywhere in the Bible that says we were given a spiritual soul. In Genesis 2:7 it says God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man " came to be" a living soul .It also refers to that on 1Corinthians 15:45 "The first man Adam was made a living soul. And again in 1 Peter 3:20 "that is, eight souls were carried safely through the water "

 

[BarryI]

How do you understand “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit/possess the earth/land.”?

Meek is defined as those who are humble and accept and will learn, thus those who are willing to learn about and worship God and his kingdom when Jesus destroys all wickedness and evil and human governments and religions and establishes God’s kingdom on earth as it was originally meant to be before man rebelled against God. They will inherit the earth rejoicing in God’s kingdom on earth , therefore inheriting the land. No where did God or Jesus say you will inherit heaven.

 

[Nita]

Ok I do not see anywhere in the Bible that says we were given a spiritual soul. In Genesis 2:7 it says God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man " came to be" a living soul .It also refers to that on 1Corinthians 15:45 "The first man Adam was made a living soul. And again in 1 Peter 3:20 "that is, eight souls were carried safely through the water "

I have a question – are you Mormon? It will help me in answering you if I know where you’re coming from. I’ll grasp better the intent of your questions and also the direction my answers should address. I’m a little familiar with Mormon beliefs, and realize the differences in Catholic belief and Mormon belief in regards to origin of humans and how we are made up.

I’d prefer an answer before I start to get into responding to the issues you raise in your post.

 

[Nita]

Meek is defined as those who are humble and accept and will learn, thus those who are willing to learn about and worship God and his kingdom when Jesus destroys all wickedness and evil and human governments and religions and establishes God’s kingdom on earth as it was originally meant to be before man rebelled against God. They will inherit the earth rejoicing in God’s kingdom on earth , therefore inheriting the land. No where did God or Jesus say you will inherit heaven.

Did you just read one of the beatitudes? The very first beatitude says:Mt. 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
and later:
Mt. 5:10-11 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when nmen revile you ad…for your reward is great in heaven…

and at another time Jesus said:Mt. 8:11 I tell you, many will come from east and west and sit at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven,…

and so forth.

Barryl, do you have access to a Bible word search? If not, I can provide a link for you. All you have to do is search the word “kingdom” and/or “heaven”. You will find more verses than the ones I gave.

 

[BarryI]

I have a question – are you Mormon? It will help me in answering you if I know where you’re coming from. I’ll grasp better the intent of your questions and also the direction my answers should address. I’m a little familiar with Mormon beliefs, and realize the differences in Catholic belief and Mormon belief in regards to origin of humans and how we are made up.

I’d prefer an answer before I start to get into responding to the issues you raise in your post.

No I am a true Christian believing in only what the Bible teaches I went to Catholic school and was raised in the Catholic tradition but now that I have become older and study the Bible I have noticed a lot of the catholic beliefs are founded on tradition from the minds of man and not God , which are conflicting as to what was written

 

[BarryI]

Did you just read one of the beatitudes? The very first beatitude says:Mt. 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
and later:
Mt. 5:10-11 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when nmen revile you ad…for your reward is great in heaven…

and at another time Jesus said:Mt. 8:11 I tell you, many will come from east and west and sit at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven,…

and so forth.

Barryl, do you have access to a Bible word search? If not, I can provide a link for you. All you have to do is search the word “kingdom” and/or “heaven”. You will find more verses than the ones I gave.

Ok I know the Beatitudes very well and mistakenly entered 5:3 instead of 5:5. Anyway , I know them very well. Who is the ruler of the world?

 

[Nita]

Ok I do not see anywhere in the Bible that says we were given a spiritual soul. In Genesis 2:7 it says God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man " came to be" a living soul .It also refers to that on 1Corinthians 15:45 "The first man Adam was made a living soul. And again in 1 Peter 3:20 "that is, eight souls were carried safely through the water "

First, thanks for answering the question about being a Mormon. Now I’ll be able to better respond to the above question.

In regards to Gen. 2:7:
I am going to assume you believe God is pure spirit. From Him came something called the “breath of life”. Now, ponder that. It came from/out of the Supreme Spiritual Being.
Would your thinking lead you to believe that something that came out of Him was spiritual or material?
Does “breath of life” sound like one of the material elements here on earth (the stuff of the ground that God used to form Adam’s body)?

Here are some additional Scripture passages to think about:
Wisdom 15:11 because he failed to know the one who formed him and inspired him with an active soul and breathed into him a living spirit.

Job 32:8 But it is the spirit in a man, the breath of the Almighty, that makes him understand.

10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

In regards to 1 Cor 15:45 and 1 Peter 3:20:
I’m sure you’re aware that words can often have more than one use or meaning. The word “soul” is used sometimes to refer to the whole human person and sometimes it is used to refer to the the spiritual component in a human person. In these 2 verses it means beings/persons.

 

[Nita]

Ok I know the Beatitudes very well and mistakenly entered 5:3 instead of 5:5.

You didn’t enter 5:3, you said 5:6. (But I’m not concerned about that. One of my Bibles has it as 5:4 and another as 5:5.)

Anyway , I know them very well.

Then why did you say in your Post #50: “No where did God or Jesus say you will inherit heaven.”

Who is the ruler of the world

Who do you say he is?

 

[BarryI]

Did you just read one of the beatitudes? The very first beatitude says:Mt. 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
and later:
Mt. 5:10-11 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when nmen revile you ad…for your reward is great in heaven…

and at another time Jesus said:Mt. 8:11 I tell you, many will come from east and west and sit at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven,…
Ft

and so forth.

Barryl, do you have access to a Bible word search? If not, I can provide a link for you. All you have to do is search the word “kingdom” and/or “heaven”. You will find more verses than the ones I gave.

You didn’t enter 5:3, you said 5:6. Then why did you say in your Post #50: “No where did God or Jesus say you will inherit heaven.”

Who do you say he is?

That is the question I asked you. You are answering a question with a question

 

[Nita]

That is the question I asked you. You are answering a question with a question

Yes. And you avoided answering it. (Altho I have no idea how that question has anything to do with what we have been discussing.)
Anyway, if you don’t know, here is what Scripture says:
John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world, now shall the ruler of this world be cast out;
John 14:30 I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming. He has no power over me;
John 16:11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

And you also avoided answering my question about why you said " “No where did God or Jesus say you will inherit heaven.” when you claimed (in your Post #54) to know the beatitudes very well.

Now, it’s very late here in the Midwest and I’m off to bed. Any further questions will have to wait till tomorrow before I’ll get around to answering them. Perhaps someone else will jump in and take over before then.
Goodnight.