Can a soul function without a body?

[BarryI]

Angels are spirit. That is their nature.

Our nature is yes an embodied soul.

It is an unnatural state for us to be in after death. God enables us to then “function” in that unnatural state until the resurrection.

At the resurrection we will again receive our body…a glorified body.

Can you clarify what funtion means?And how it pertains to a dead body?What functions are ther if there is no body or mind?Where can I find this in the Bible? I am looking all over in the New Testament and cannot find any correlation to a person in death functioning in any form and that God enables us to function. Please direct me there so I can read it Thank You, or is this just an assumption?

 

[GEddie]

Can you clarify what funtion means?And how it pertains to a dead body?What functions are ther if there is no body or mind?Where can I find this in the Bible? I am looking all over in the New Testament and cannot find any correlation to a person in death functioning in any form and that God enables us to function. Please direct me there so I can read it Thank You, or is this just an assumption?

There is no function in a dead body (by definition).

When you are dead, you cease functioning in time, but enter eternity and become pneumatikon soma.

ICXC NIKA

 

[tonyrey]

Mental actions only matter if accompanied by physical action; thinking nice thoughts about someone does not help them; thinking nastily does not hurt them.

No response!

 

[BarryI]

There is no function in a dead body (by definition).

When you are dead, you cease functioning in time, but enter eternity and become pneumatikon soma.

ICXC NIKA

Yes,can you explain to me what pneumatkon soma is, it’s definition and where you got it from?Whatt Bible Author and verse is it so that I may look it up. I really appreciate it. Thank you

 

[GEddie]

Yes,can you explain to me what pneumatkon soma is, it’s definition and where you got it from?Whatt Bible Author and verse is it so that I may look it up. I really appreciate it. Thank you

pneumatikon = spiritual; soma = body (Greek)

This derives from 1 Corinthians 15.

ICXC NIKA

 

[jimmy]

The soul can function without the body, but not in the physical universe. In other words, it can’t open a door or turn the light-switch off. It needs a body (an earth-suit) to do those things, but it can function. It is still alive.

But the body isn’t just an earth suit. The body is necessary for every form of action. It is through the physical senses that we percieve reality. Through our hands, eyes, nose, mouth and ears we learn about reality. Without those we can know nothing of the world. In addition memory has a physical component. Pathways are formed in the brain when we form a memory. When an area is stimulated, it will bring back particular memories. So both memory and sense-perception are part of the physical body. What is a man without these two things? How can he function, or be aware of anything without memory or perception?

 

[jimmy]

I am curious. Many on this thread assert that mental acts are seperate from physical acts. If this is the case, is it possible to do evil, and keep your mind/soul clean and free from sin? If the soul exists apart from the body, and has its own function apart from the body, it should be possible to do evil with your body, but remain spiritually pure. Murder, rape, and pillaging consequently have no spiritual effect.

 

[BarryI]

pneumatikon = spiritual; soma = body (Greek)

This derives from 1 Corinthians 15.

ICXC NIKA

But you stated that when you die you enter eternity in pneumatika soma. How can this be? If you believe in the resurrection then you will be resurrected and live for eternity,not when you die . If that was the case then there would be no resurrection.

 

[GEddie]

But you stated that when you die you enter eternity in pneumatika soma. How can this be? If you believe in the resurrection then you will be resurrected and live for eternity,not when you die . If that was the case then there would be no resurrection.

Sorry for waiting on this. At 4am, I was not up to it.

You do not enter eternity as pneumatikon soma. You enter eternity and become pneumatikon soma.

Time is an effect of the entropy cooking off in the physical universe (including our heads and bodies). Beyond death, you are not waiting to be made alive again; you move directly into your eternal being (pneumatikon soma). There is no time in Eternity to wait through.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Nita]

Sorry for waiting on this. At 4am, I was not up to it.

You do not enter eternity as pneumatikon soma. You enter eternity and become pneumatikon soma.

Time is an effect of the entropy cooking off in the physical universe (including our heads and bodies). Beyond death, you are not waiting to be made alive again; you move directly into your eternal being (pneumatikon soma). There is no time in Eternity to wait through.

ICXC NIKA

How does this mesh with the Catholic doctrine of the resurrection of our physical bodies at the end of the world?

 

[Nita]

Can you clarify what funtion means?And how it pertains to a dead body?What functions are ther if there is no body or mind?Where can I find this in the Bible? I am looking all over in the New Testament and cannot find any correlation to a person in death functioning in any form and that God enables us to function. Please direct me there so I can read it Thank You, or is this just an assumption?

Here are several that come to my mind.

Matthew 17:1-8 (The transfiguration where Moses and Elijah appear.)
I realize Elijah was taken body and soul, but Moses wasn’t. Altho they see Moses also, we don’t believe it was his actual resurrected body. More like how God allows spirits to have a visible form when appearing to those still alive on earth. Eg. Genesis 18

**Luke 16:19-30 **The parable of the rich man and Lazarus.
Altho it’s considered a parable, Jesus uses things and events that are real (as opposed to phantasy) in His parable teachings.

**Philippians 1:23 **… My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better.
(Implicit is that Paul considered he would be conscious after death - that He would be aware of being with Christ. See also 2 Cor 5:8)

**Revelation 6:9 ** When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne; 6:10 they cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?”

**Revelation 7:9-15 **After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no man could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 7:10 and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb!” …7:13 Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, “Who are these, clothed in white robes, and whence have they come?” 7:14 I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night within his temple; and he who sits upon the throne will shelter them with his presence.

 

[BarryI]

Sorry for waiting on this. At 4am, I was not up to it.

You do not enter eternity as pneumatikon soma. You enter eternity and become pneumatikon soma.

Time is an effect of the entropy cooking off in the physical universe (including our heads and bodies). Beyond death, you are not waiting to be made alive again; you move directly into your eternal being (pneumatikon soma). There is no time in Eternity to wait through.

ICXC NIKA

Is there a reference in the Bible that states that?please refer me to the chapter and verse. I’m confused . If we are already a spirit, then why would we be resurrected back int a fleshly body?

 

[Nita]

… A body, by contrast, is intrinsic to the functioning of a human soul.

ICXC NIKA

Actually, it’s just the opposite – a human soul is intrinsic/necessary to the functioning of a human body. Without the soul, a body is dead and cannot function. Without the body, the soul still functions; it is immortal. (CCC #366)

 

[GEddie]

Actually, it’s just the opposite – a human soul is intrinsic/necessary to the functioning of a human body. Without the soul, a body is dead and cannot function. Without the body, the soul still functions; it is immortal. (CCC #366)

The soul is designed to animate a body. In a state of death, those functions would go into abeyance. The body is intrinsic to the soul’s mission.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Nita]

You do not enter eternity as pneumatikon soma. You enter eternity and become pneumatikon soma.
ICXC NIKA

You keep speaking of the “pneumatikon soma”. How is that different from the human soul? You say we “become” pneumatikon soma which seems to imply changing in some way – presumably in the makeup/substance of the soul.

Could you please reference something in the Catechism or other official teachings of the Catholic Church to support your proposals about “becoming pneumatikon soma”? I’ve been around a long time, done a lot of reading (Catholic), but have never heard of it before.

Here is how the Catechism describes our state of existence after death.
#1022 Each man receives his eternal retribution **in his immortal soul **at the very monent of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven – through a purification or immediately, – or immediate and everlasting damnation.

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2L.HTM

 

[Nita]

The soul is designed to animate a body. In a state of death, those functions would go into abeyance. The body is intrinsic to the soul’s mission.

ICXC NIKA

Animation of the body (source of physical life) is only a part of the functions/powers of the human soul. It is the higher powers especially - intellect and will - that do not go into “abeyance” after physical death.

I agree that after death and prior to the final resurrection we are not complete, so to speak. But our souls are still very much alive and functioning.

 

[Nita]

pneumatikon = spiritual; soma = body (Greek)

This derives from 1 Corinthians 15.

ICXC NIKA

**1 Cor 15 is speaking about what our resurrected bodies **at the end of the world will be like. It tells us they will be different from the mortal bodies we had here on earth – our “terrestrial bodies”. (verse 40)
Chapter 15 is not speaking about the manner of our existence in eternity during the time between our death and the final resurrection.

 

[Nita]

Animation of the body (source of physical life) is only a part of the functions/powers of the human soul. It is the higher powers especially - intellect and will - that do not go into “abeyance” after physical death. They are not dependent on our physical body to function.

I agree that after death and prior to the final resurrection we are not complete, so to speak. But our souls are still very much alive and functioning.

 

[Nita]

Mental actions only matter if accompanied by physical action; thinking nice thoughts about someone does not help them; thinking nastily does not hurt them.

This is not true. Envy, hate, pride, lust, which are mental/spiritual actions, do matter – very much; they could land us in hell ----- even if they do not get expressed in physical actions. (Eg. to hate someone so much you wish them dead.)

Sorry if it seems like I’m picking on you, but you have made some very strange statements. Perhaps it’s just that your words aren’t accurately expressing what you mean. For example, in your above statement, rather than “Mental actions only matter if…” do you mean: Mental actions *can only cause physical harm to someone if *accompanied by physical actions."

 

[BarryI]

**1 Cor 15 is speaking about what our resurrected bodies **at the end of the world will be like. It tells us they will be different from the mortal bodies we had here on earth – our “terrestrial bodies”. (verse 40)
Chapter 15 is not speaking about the manner of our existence in eternity during the time between our death and the final resurrection.

I have to ask here, is Jesus and God a liar?When Jesus was resurrected, He was resurrected back to a flesh and blood body, am I right? Hence, He even ate a fish meal with the disciples.Also when He resurrected the little girl and his friend Lazarus, they were resurrected back to life in their human bodies. They did not come back as spirits.So then,the way the events take place,that is how we are to believe right.Jesus never said anywhere in the Bible we would be resurrected or become a spirit did He? If He did, please refer me to the passage in the Bible that shows that.Also if God wanted us to be a spirit and live in the spirit world,then why did he make us human?Why would he not of just made us a spirit from the beginning like he did with the angels? Can anyone answer that?