Can an unmarried Catholic couple live together if

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The topic of having co-ed housemates is a different issue, however. I suppose I would say that it is not ideal but sometimes perhaps necessary. It would depend on a number of things. When I lived in Europe, it seemed quite normal to me. And there was no scandal involved. It’s not a simple issue, though, and depends on a number of things.

God Bless.
Yeah my experience as well is that among young adults co-ed housemates is treated as a pretty normal thing. It doesn’t imply sex.

That and there’s not a whole lot of protection from the suspicious if you have a same-sex roommate, especially if one partner happens to fit the stereotypes of homsexuality.
 
Memaw, scandal is trivial when there’s no actual scandal going on. Gossiping about people is the real problem, as too many people are over-interested in what other people are doing, without putting their own houses in order first.

IMO, we should be charitable and never judge on things like this. We never know what is really happening in other people’s homes.
Gossip has nothing to do with the sin of giving scandal. Nor does it have anything to do with judging. One gives scandal if one’s actions might lead another into sin (at worst) or into believing that sinful behavior is not actual grave. The action here is an unmarried couple living together. Everything else is superfluous. If that action, living together, leads others into sin or into a malformed conscience, the couple has committed the sin of giving scandal.
 
Memaw, scandal is trivial when there’s no actual scandal going on. Gossiping about people is the real problem, as too many people are over-interested in what other people are doing, without putting their own houses in order first.

IMO, we should be charitable and never judge on things like this. We never know what is really happening in other people’s homes.
👍
 
Yeah my experience as well is that among young adults co-ed housemates is treated as a pretty normal thing. It doesn’t imply sex.

That and there’s not a whole lot of protection from the suspicious if you have a same-sex roommate, especially if one partner happens to fit the stereotypes of homsexuality.
Yes, I mentioned this earlier in the thread as well. It is very common, at least in some regions, and does not imply sex. Sometimes you have two females and one male, or two males and one female. No one of my generation would necessarily assume something sexual was going on. If you are a romantic couple that’s a different story - society will assume you are sleeping together.
 
So male and female housemates is OK but if they are a couple then no?
 
One of them was at risk of being homeless and the only option was to sleep in the spare room of the partners house?
In reality that is not the “only option” but it might seem to be the most convenient.

I can cause scandal and therefore be sinful.

Better for the person with the place to live help the other to find a safe place and a program to help.
 
Regarding all the uproar over the actual engaged couple, entering the Church, with the woman already pregnant – and trying to use them as the poster children for why unmarried Catholic couples (living celibately) should be allowed to live together…

Seriously, people??? First of all, that couple wasn’t Catholic yet, so their situation is already an exception to the rule. Secondly, just because this one couple shows a unique situation in which living together (while celibate!) was allowed by the priest, that does not mean that the answer to the OP’s original situation is suddenly “yes!” in all or most circumstances.

As a few of us here have said, the details of this hypothetical are essential, but they are also unknown because it is hypothetical. The no other option clause is the kicker. Several of us have brought up the question of why there is no other option.

Some here have gotten all caught up in trying to say the Church is wrong in claiming that scandal is to be avoided – that being scandalized is the same as gossiping. Here’s what the Catechism has to say about scandal:
2284 Scandal is an attitude or behavior which leads another to do evil. the person who gives scandal becomes his neighbor’s tempter. He damages virtue and integrity; he may even draw his brother into spiritual death. Scandal is a grave offense if by deed or omission another is deliberately led into a grave offense.
2287 Anyone who uses the power at his disposal in such a way that it leads others to do wrong becomes guilty of scandal and responsible for the evil that he has directly or indirectly encouraged. "Temptations to sin are sure to come; but woe to him by whom they come!"89
This isn’t about passing judgment on someone or gossiping about them. This is about leading others into doing evil by the example we are setting.

It’s late and time for sleep. Just wanted to show two more cents’.

Gert
 
So male and female housemates is OK but if they are a couple then no?
I get the sense you have a problem with this notion. Where is Gertie?..She’s so excellent at explaining things. (Maybe it has something to do with her being a teacher.)

Putting a guy and a gal in the same house for even one night that have sexual and/or romantic feelings for one another is looking for trouble in a big way. If both persons have ice water for blood, then no problem. I personally don’t know too many people like that. It is just extremely imprudent because God created man and woman with a very strong sexual desire. When you have two people with feelings for one another, there is a very high risk of something happening between the two people at some point even if it was not intended or foreseen.

I personally would never do it. I have had a female house mate for an extended amount of time when I lived in Europe, but I had absolutely no sexual attraction to her thankfully. I would not now ever live with a girl I would consider marrying. The attraction would be too strong, and it would be displeasing to God. That is the bottom line. It’s playing with fire.

“A stubborn mind will be afflicted at the end,
and whoever loves danger will perish by it.
Sirach 3:26

I’m sure others can explain it better than I have.

Jesus Bless You, My Friend!
 
I get the sense you have a problem with this notion. Where is Gertie?..She’s so excellent at explaining things. (Maybe it has something to do with her being a teacher.)

Putting a guy and a gal in the same house for even one night that have sexual and/or romantic feelings for one another is looking for trouble in a big way. If both persons have ice water for blood, then no problem. I personally don’t know too many people like that. It is just extremely imprudent because God created man and woman with a very strong sexual desire. When you have two people with feelings for one another, there is a very high risk of something happening between the two people at some point even if it was not intended or foreseen.

I personally would never do it. I have had a female house mate for an extended amount of time when I lived in Europe, but I had absolutely no sexual attraction to her thankfully. I would not now ever live with a girl I would consider marrying. The attraction would be too strong, and it would be displeasing to God. That is the bottom line. It’s playing with fire.

“A stubborn mind will be afflicted at the end,
and whoever loves danger will perish by it.
Sirach 3:26

I’m sure others can explain it better than I have.

Jesus Bless You, My Friend!
You explained it very well, and I am way too tired to think coherently enough to write more. Thanks to you, I don’t need to 😃

God bless you!

Gertie
 
Hubby and I lived together before we got married.

We also began the conversion to Catholicism once we got engaged. That was about 3 years after we had met and 2 years after we had moved in together.

I was pregnant. I was also not working. My husband was making the money and supporting us.

In our case? There was NO OTHER OPTION.
My parents had just moved into a 55 plus community that did not allow any under that age to live there…even to couch crash.
My in-laws are divorced and my MIL rents a bedroom out of a friend’s house. FIL lives in a one-bedroom apartment that he smokes in regularly.

The rest of our family lived out of state.

Our wedding was about 9 months out and I was due before then.

We had consulted with both our new parish priest and the priest who was marring us and they both agreed that is wasn’t wise for us to move apart at this point. It would have caused too much heartache and stress.
Plus, I wasn’t about to separate my new born daughter from her father for any reason. Especially one so trivial as scandal…no offense.
Hubby and I were not sexually active the entirety of our engagement…the second we started attending Mass and started RCIA.

Best advice?
Talk to your priest. See what he says about the situation.

We talked to two and both agreed it was wiser for us to live together.
Your situation illustrates the point I had made. You had entered into an impossible situation due to your previous choices. An unideal living arrangement was the consequence; there was no new scandal here. Any “scandal” was the result of previous choices made. However, at all times, you fully intended to rectify the situation by marrying. The church accepts with mercy nearly any temporary situation, so long as regularization is on the horizon.
 
My wife and I “lived” together before marriage in a sense (though we never once had sex). We spent the majority of the time in different countries for work reasons throughout our engagement (and dating for that matter), and would only see each other for a couple weeks once every month or two. When together, I slept in one room (with adjoining bathroom) and she and her mother shared the other room / bathroom across the hall. My confessor was well aware of the situation. If in the OP’s scenario one of the parents also lived with the party taking in the homeless party, would that change the response of most posters on this thread?
In such a scenario, the “homeless” party would simply be moving in with family.
 
Gossip has nothing to do with the sin of giving scandal. Nor does it have anything to do with judging. One gives scandal if one’s actions might lead another into sin (at worst) or into believing that sinful behavior is not actual grave. The action here is an unmarried couple living together. Everything else is superfluous. If that action, living together, leads others into sin or into a malformed conscience, the couple has committed the sin of giving scandal.
Thank you, sad to say not all Catholics believe this Church teaching. God Bless, Memaw
 
There are three things that must be considered in this scenario. Actual sexual sin, the** near** occasion of mortal sin, and the possibility of scandal. Actual sin and the near occasion of sin are a little easier to deal with. Either the couple in question sins mortally or they don’t and the situation will either very strongly tempt a person to mortal sin or it wont.

Scandal is a little more complicated to figure out. There are a lot of factors to consider here. How much of a moral authority figure are you to other people? Just the fact that you are a Christian or a Catholic makes scandal more important to avoid as any scandal you cause will have a more lasting effect. People can then think “well, if even the good religious people are doing it then it can’t really be that bad to do”. If you are in an even higher level of authority, such as a religious youth leader, a nun, a priest etc the importance of avoiding scandal is even greater.

Another factor is how likely the action you are taking is likely to encourage others to sin. And I’ve got to say, on this count, people living together for monetary reasons is not nearly as scandalous as it used to be. Especially if the couple in question is fairly young, who are they going to influence besides their peers and other younger people? But, people in their teens and twenties have become much more accepting of the idea of people of the opposite sex living together without having any kind of romantic relationship. So the fact that two people are living together for monetary purposes isn’t nearly as likely to lead them to believe that a sexual relationship outside of marriage is ok as thats less likely to be what they assume is going on. Add to that the fact that most people that age assume that if you’ve been dating someone for more than a few weeks you are having sex it seems like the scandal of leading others to think sex is ok outside of marriage is more attatched to dating itself than to sharing a house for monetary reasons.

However, having said that, if you were in a relationship where it is well-known that you are being chaste and waiting for marriage it is again more important to avoid entering a living situation which might cause other people to think you are actually not being chaste. Thats because if it is actually known and believed you are chaste then your relationship becomes a public example of morality for others to look up to, an example that such a thing really is possible, and so it raises your level of moral authority and the importance of avoiding scandal.

Another thing that comes into play is how much the living situation looks like a cohabiting situation rather than a platonic arrangement for money. For instance, if it was a guy and two girls living together when the guy is engaged to someone who lives elsewhere that is going to be a lot less likely to cause scandal then if it is a guy and girl engaged to each other who move into a house with just the two of them. As I noted, its a freaking complex subject.

This is especially when you bring the principle of double-effect into play. Which principle states that an action which will have both good and bad consequences it is moral so long as the bad consequences are not intended and are proportionate to the good consequences. So, on top of the question of what scandal actually is and to what extent it exists in different situations you add in the complication of needing to balance the bad effect of scandal against the good effects of living in the same house. Such as the good of having a roof over your head etc.
 
There are three things that must be considered in this scenario. Actual sexual sin, the** near** occasion of mortal sin, and the possibility of scandal. Actual sin and the near occasion of sin are a little easier to deal with. Either the couple in question sins mortally or they don’t and the situation will either very strongly tempt a person to mortal sin or it wont.

Scandal is a little more complicated to figure out. There are a lot of factors to consider here. How much of a moral authority figure are you to other people? Just the fact that you are a Christian or a Catholic makes scandal more important to avoid as any scandal you cause will have a more lasting effect. People can then think “well, if even the good religious people are doing it then it can’t really be that bad to do”. If you are in an even higher level of authority, such as a religious youth leader, a nun, a priest etc the importance of avoiding scandal is even greater.

Another factor is how likely the action you are taking is likely to encourage others to sin. And I’ve got to say, on this count, people living together for monetary reasons is not nearly as scandalous as it used to be. Especially if the couple in question is fairly young, who are they going to influence besides their peers and other younger people? But, people in their teens and twenties have become much more accepting of the idea of people of the opposite sex living together without having any kind of romantic relationship. So the fact that two people are living together for monetary purposes isn’t nearly as likely to lead them to believe that a sexual relationship outside of marriage is ok as thats less likely to be what they assume is going on. Add to that the fact that most people that age assume that if you’ve been dating someone for more than a few weeks you are having sex it seems like the scandal of leading others to think sex is ok outside of marriage is more attatched to dating itself than to sharing a house for monetary reasons.

However, having said that, if you were in a relationship where it is well-known that you are being chaste and waiting for marriage it is again more important to avoid entering a living situation which might cause other people to think you are actually not being chaste. Thats because if it is actually known and believed you are chaste then your relationship becomes a public example of morality for others to look up to, an example that such a thing really is possible, and so it raises your level of moral authority and the importance of avoiding scandal.

Another thing that comes into play is how much the living situation looks like a cohabiting situation rather than a platonic arrangement for money. For instance, if it was a guy and two girls living together when the guy is engaged to someone who lives elsewhere that is going to be a lot less likely to cause scandal then if it is a guy and girl engaged to each other who move into a house with just the two of them. As I noted, its a freaking complex subject.

This is especially when you bring the principle of double-effect into play. Which principle states that an action which will have both good and bad consequences it is moral so long as the bad consequences are not intended and are proportionate to the good consequences. So, on top of the question of what scandal actually is and to what extent it exists in different situations you add in the complication of needing to balance the bad effect of scandal against the good effects of living in the same house. Such as the good of having a roof over your head etc.
Justifying the situation never makes it right. Good grief, it’s the times we’re living in that makes anything acceptable if we try hard enough to make excuses for it. Just listen to yourself!!! That is NOT Catholic thinking!! God Bless, Memaws
 
It can give scandal. I had a cousin that let her deceased sister’s husband live with her for awhile after his home flooded. She was upset cuz his own kids wouldn’t give him a place to stay. I know for a fact he slept on the sofa, I was there in the morning when he was still asleep. But everyone in the family talked about her behind her back and they “knew” just what was going on. I tried to correct them but they just thought I was being naive. God Bless, Memaw
This is really bothering me. You tell this story, and then the rest of the thread you go on and on and on about how these people were wrong, this causes scandal, we accept anything as a society, etc.

Let me ask you, if you died tomorrow and something happened to your home, would you expect your sister to take your husband in? I sure as heck would! And I’ll tell you this much, my brother-in-law will always have a place to stay in my home, even if my husband is dead. Looking out for family in times of trouble should not cause this kind of gossip, and if it does, the blame falls solely on the shoulders of the gossipers.

I would think far worse things about someone who wouldn’t take in their BIL because “What would the neighbors think?” Sometimes, being a good person requires accepting that people might think negatively of you. That is not sinful.
 
This is really bothering me. You tell this story, and then the rest of the thread you go on and on and on about how these people were wrong, this causes scandal, we accept anything as a society, etc.

Let me ask you, if you died tomorrow and something happened to your home, would you expect your sister to take your husband in? I sure as heck would! And I’ll tell you this much, my brother-in-law will always have a place to stay in my home, even if my husband is dead. Looking out for family in times of trouble should not cause this kind of gossip, and if it does, the blame falls solely on the shoulders of the gossipers.

I would think far worse things about someone who wouldn’t take in their BIL because “What would the neighbors think?” Sometimes, being a good person requires accepting that people might think negatively of you. That is not sinful.
First of all, I was just showing how it can become a scandal even if it is not a sinful situation. If my cousins husband would have been alive, that would have been a different story. Both were widowed. Second, both my husbands are in Heaven, But I don’t think either one of them would have ever moved in with any of my sisters! I certainly never would have moved in with one of my Brothers-in-law. There is always another alternative. God Bless, Memaw
 
First of all, I was just showing how it can become a scandal even if it is not a sinful situation. If my cousins husband would have been alive, that would have been a different story. Both were widowed. Second, both my husbands are in Heaven, But I don’t think either one of them would have ever moved in with any of my sisters! I certainly never would have moved in with one of my Brothers-in-law. There is always another alternative.
No, there isn’t always an alternative. If there were, we wouldn’t have homeless people.

My BIL and I don’t get along, at all. I haven’t liked him since the day I met him.

But if he needed a place to live, he could move in here. And it wouldn’t matter if my husband were living or dead.
 
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