Can an unmarried Catholic couple live together if

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Have you ever gone out and invited a homeless person into your home to live. Put your money where your mouth is!
Yes, I have had people that had no where else to go, stay with me. Not that your question has anything to do with the topic at hand.

My point is, yes, there are people that have no where at all to stay. So it would make sense that there are people with only one place to stay.

And if that one place happens to be in the same house as the member of the opposite sex, they should take it. They certainly shouldn’t be living on the streets, just so people don’t gossip.
 
No, I never once mentioned scandal. So that had nothing to do with it.

I will tell you right now:

**If you are on the steet and you literally have nowhere else to go, go stay at your friends’s house.

That is my advice.
**
You’re missing the point.
The question is if there was no other option. What if friends say no? My own brother didn’t want me living with him.
All my friends live in other cities. Not possible. If I was evicted I would be homeless.
Clearly you have never experienced the horrors of homelessness. It’s a life or death situation.
I’ve lived it. It’s horrible.
 
I think maybe you misunderstood that Mother Teresa quote.

She meant that some matters really are not at all for us to try and judge; we have no ability to do it. It really concerns the person and God. It wasn’t meant in a negative sense.

I initially wanted to dissuade you from choosing the boyfriend option for the good of your soul. But you certainly can’t be on the streets. That is out of the question.

If I can help you in any way, I will.

God Bless.
 
You’re missing the point.
The question is if there was no other option. What if friends say no? My own brother didn’t want me living with him.
All my friends live in other cities. Not possible. If I was evicted I would be homeless.
Clearly you have never experienced the horrors of homelessness. It’s a life or death situation.
I’ve lived it. It’s horrible.
Perhaps I did miss the point! 🙂

Most men, or perhaps a lot, have trouble with the “no other option” clause. We are problem-solvers and try to think what options are there that simply have not been discovered or brought to light.
You’re right. I’ve never experience those horrors. I’m very sorry for you that you have. You have life experiences that I do not have. But perhaps I have some expereinces that you do not.
In the end, it’s you that has to decide what to do. I meant what I said, though, what I wrote in BOLD.

I’m not sure I’m helping you out at all, but that is what I was trying to do, anyways.
 
Perhaps I did miss the point! 🙂

Most men, or perhaps a lot, have trouble with the “no other option” clause. We are problem-solvers and try to think what options are there that simply have not been discovered or brought to light.
You’re right. I’ve never experience those horrors. I’m very sorry for you that you have. You have life experiences that I do not have. But perhaps I have some expereinces that you do not.
In the end, it’s you that has to decide what to do. I meant what I said, though, what I wrote in BOLD.

I’m not sure I’m helping you out at all, but that is what I was trying to do, anyways.
I think a lot of us have trouble with the “no other option” thing because some of us have ended up with situations where there were other options, they were just bad options.

So in my case, I’m staying with a male friend (not a boyfriend).

Pretty much all of my friends were male, so asking other friends was probably out.

I’m, as I stated, unwilling to stay in a house with children. Nothing against kids but I don’t want to expose them to semi-treated PTSD.

My family would let me stay, but they also have a tendency to push triggers and get over-involved in health care in ways that tend to make my health worse.

So there’s benefits and drawbacks to each option.
 
Also if by some odd reason it truly is a no other option case. A country where there is not government help, or such it is also a problem because both parties are single, and one is in a pure position of power (has shelter) and offering it to the other. That can be abused. But also, the person being offered the shelter can develop an emotional and material dependency on the “provider” Making the likelihood of an unequal relationship, or worse, turning into a crush or co dependent relationship that could be quite unhealthy for both parties.
 
clarification: When I said “friend”, I was referring to your “partner”, which is the term you used to describe the person in question.
 
I am not justifying anything. I am merely explaining the complexities of determining the morality in such a situation as this.

Also, if you wish to accuse me of saying something contrary to Catholic teaching please have the courtesy to provide an authoritative teaching from the Church to show that I am incorrect. If you can do so I will of course take back anything false I have said and work to change my view to match that of the Church. If you cannot then I will respectfully disagree with you.
Why is it that one who disagrees with Church teaching has to have some kind of authoritative “proof” of it before even considering it. Ask an apologist on CAF. God Bless. Memaw
 
Why is it that one who disagrees with Church teaching has to have some kind of authoritative “proof” of it before even considering it. Ask an apologist on CAF. God Bless. Memaw
Without a tad more proof, this supposed “church teaching” is sounding more like you trying to put your own opinion into the mouth of the church.
 
Without a tad more proof, this supposed “church teaching” is sounding more like you trying to put your own opinion into the mouth of the church.
And your NOT! Like I said, ask and apologist! God Bless, Memaw
 
And your NOT! Like I said, ask and apologist! God Bless, Memaw
I stated my opinion. I and others have provided the moral reasoning behind it. Where have I claimed it was the teaching of the church? It it imo a prudential matter, one of many about which there is no official teaching binding us.
 
Why is it that one who disagrees with Church teaching has to have some kind of authoritative “proof” of it before even considering it. Ask an apologist on CAF. God Bless. Memaw
I am more than willing to consider that I might be wrong, which is why I asked for evidence. I am not going to assume that everything a random person on the internet says is true, and so, I hope you will forgive me if I don’t just automatically assume that you are correct simply becuase you say so.

However, there was a further reason I asked you to provide proof. Namely, that it is a very strong accusation to claim that a Catholic is expressing views contrary to those held by the Catholic Church. If you are going to make such a harsh accusation against me I would appreciate it if you actually gave some kind of evidence for your claim that I actually deserve said accusation. Otherwise it is merely an ad hominem.

Finally, since you wanted me to ask an aopologist on CAF I took the time to search the ask an apologist section and I have found a very intriguing thing, the apologists all agree that there can be some circumstances where it is ok for people of the opposite sex to live together, sometimes even if they are a couple. They may not occur frequently, but the possibility of them existing is real. Which is essentially what I have been saying.

Here are some excerpts
But, in individual circumstances, which can differentiate substantially from the norm, the possibility exists that the couple is not behaving inappropriately. Without specific information to evaluate, and without the reasonable assurance that we know the situation well enough to evaluate it, we should charitably presume that a couple is living chastely.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=11255
Often the expresion “sharing the bed” means having sexual relations. This is how I understood it in the question you mention. Nevertheless, for a young man and a young woman to sleep together with their clothes on would definitely be an occasion of sin for most heterosexual people—even if they managed to remain chaste. Further, such behavior could be the cause of scandal to others who might learn of it. Deliberate cause of scandal could very well be a mortal sin.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=124103

Notice the language used, it would be an occasion of sin for most people (therefore not for all.) Also note that he says this behaviour could be the cause of scandal, not that it is, but that it could be. Again, it all depends on the particular circumstances, which is the point I was making in my post.
In the case of chaste cohabitation, if there is just cause for chastely rooming with a non-relative of the opposite sex that is proportionate to the high likelihood of the scandal to be given, it is theoretically true that one could engage in chaste cohabitation. But given the range of alternate options available for most people, in most cases its necessity will be rare.
In those rare cases where chaste cohabitation is necessary, it would seem prudent to minimize scandal as much as possible within one’s social circle by explaining to those who care about the couple that it is only a roommate relationship. To those outside one’s social circle who do not otherwise know of the living arrangements, it would seem prudent to refrain from mentioning them, if possible.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=18880

Again, here, we have an example of an apologist speaking of it as a rare thing when there would be just cause for chaste cohabitation, but not an impossible thing. We even see here the willingness to accept that in some rare cases it may still be just and moral even if you cannot completely eradicate scandal caused by it. That is precisely because of the Catholic principle of double effect which I brought up in my post.

So lets go over this again. The main points I made in my post were

1) The three aspects of living together which are sinful are actual sin, the near occasion of sin, and scandal.

(Note that these are the only things any of the apologists focused on in their responses, implying that I am correct in that these are the only aspects which are sinful)

2) That whether or not scandal is caused and what the extent and chance of scandal being caused are depends on the individual circumstances.

(Again, this is held up by the apologists responses as they also speak about this.)

3) That the principle of double effect allows one to perform an action with both good and bad results so long as the bad results are both proportionate to the good results and were not at all intended or desired results.

(This is again held up by the apologists responses in that Michcelle Arnold pointed out that it could be just to live together in certain rare cases even if scandal could not be completely eliminated, though, in such cases, the couple must, of course, do all they can to reduce the chance of causing scandal)

So please, remind me again what exactly it is that I said that is contrary to Church teaching?
 
Yes, I have had people that had no where else to go, stay with me. Not that your question has anything to do with the topic at hand.

My point is, yes, there are people that have no where at all to stay. So it would make sense that there are people with only one place to stay.

And if that one place happens to be in the same house as the member of the opposite sex, they should take it. They certainly shouldn’t be living on the streets, just so people don’t gossip.
I thought we were talking about homeless people. God Bless, memaw
 
I am more than willing to consider that I might be wrong, which is why I asked for evidence. I am not going to assume that everything a random person on the internet says is true, and so, I hope you will forgive me if I don’t just automatically assume that you are correct simply becuase you say so.

However, there was a further reason I asked you to provide proof. Namely, that it is a very strong accusation to claim that a Catholic is expressing views contrary to those held by the Catholic Church. If you are going to make such a harsh accusation against me I would appreciate it if you actually gave some kind of evidence for your claim that I actually deserve said accusation. Otherwise it is merely an ad hominem.

Finally, since you wanted me to ask an aopologist on CAF I took the time to search the ask an apologist section and I have found a very intriguing thing, the apologists all agree that there can be some circumstances where it is ok for people of the opposite sex to live together, sometimes even if they are a couple. They may not occur frequently, but the possibility of them existing is real. Which is essentially what I have been saying.

Here are some excerpts

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=11255

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=124103

Notice the language used, it would be an occasion of sin for most people (therefore not for all.) Also note that he says this behaviour could be the cause of scandal, not that it is, but that it could be. Again, it all depends on the particular circumstances, which is the point I was making in my post.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=18880

Again, here, we have an example of an apologist speaking of it as a rare thing when there would be just cause for chaste cohabitation, but not an impossible thing. We even see here the willingness to accept that in some rare cases it may still be just and moral even if you cannot completely eradicate scandal caused by it. That is precisely because of the Catholic principle of double effect which I brought up in my post.

So lets go over this again. The main points I made in my post were

1) The three aspects of living together which are sinful are actual sin, the near occasion of sin, and scandal.

(Note that these are the only things any of the apologists focused on in their responses, implying that I am correct in that these are the only aspects which are sinful)

2) That whether or not scandal is caused and what the extent and chance of scandal being caused are depends on the individual circumstances.

(Again, this is held up by the apologists responses as they also speak about this.)

3) That the principle of double effect allows one to perform an action with both good and bad results so long as the bad results are both proportionate to the good results and were not at all intended or desired results.

(This is again held up by the apologists responses in that Michcelle Arnold pointed out that it could be just to live together in certain rare cases even if scandal could not be completely eliminated, though, in such cases, the couple must, of course, do all they can to reduce the chance of causing scandal)

So please, remind me again what exactly it is that I said that is contrary to Church teaching?
These examples are just what I have been saying, RARE means hardly ever is it OK. In an emergency situation but there should be someone besides the ‘partner’ to stay with temporarily. Other alternatives are not that hard to find if one wants to. God Bless, Memaw
 
These examples are just what I have been saying, RARE means hardly ever is it OK. In an emergency situation but there should be someone besides the ‘partner’ to stay with temporarily. Other alternatives are not that hard to find if one wants to. God Bless, Memaw
Seeing as the apologists agree with my previous post am I correct to assume that you are retracting your accusation that I hold a position contrary to Church teaching or that I have expressed ideas contrary to Church teaching here on this thread?
 
I thought we were talking about homeless people. God Bless, memaw
:confused:

She is talking about homeless people, or rather, people who would be homeless if they didn’t stay with someone of the opposite sex.
 
:confused:

She is talking about homeless people, or rather, people who would be homeless if they didn’t stay with someone of the opposite sex.
That they’re in a relationship with.

It’s all lies anyway. The only hope is if the couple moves in together, there is no other way. That is the claim. There are no family or friends anywhere that one could move in with.

I think they should take the not shacking up challenge. Just don’t do it and see what happens. I don’t believe for one second one of them will end up homeless. I’d also like to see signed letters from all members of the homeless person’s family and friends that shacking up is the only possible recourse and that there isn’t a single person on earth who would take them in or let them rent a room. I’d also like to see some financial statements and work history as well as job applications.

People need to stop rationalizing everything and coming up with all these excuses. Just do what’s right.
 
That they’re in a relationship with.

It’s all lies anyway. The only hope is if the couple moves in together, there is no other way. That is the claim. There are no family or friends anywhere that one could move in with.

I think they should take the not shacking up challenge. Just don’t do it and see what happens. I don’t believe for one second one of them will end up homeless. I’d also like to see signed letters from all members of the homeless person’s family and friends that shacking up is the only possible recourse and that there isn’t a single person on earth who would take them in or let them rent a room. I’d also like to see some financial statements and work history as well as job applications.

People need to stop rationalizing everything and coming up with all these excuses. Just do what’s right.
This is a theoretical question. The point is that it is theoretically possible that moving in together is both moral and the best option. So, in answer to a theoretical question where it is a given that there are no other possible options saying they should check their options again is irrelevant, it is assumed that the theoretical couple have already done that. If it really is true that there are no other options then yes, it is fine for them to move in together so long as they are able to do so without putting each other in the proximate occasion of mortal sin and so long as they do the best they can to reduce the risk of causing scandal.
 
Seeing as the apologists agree with my previous post am I correct to assume that you are retracting your accusation that I hold a position contrary to Church teaching or that I have expressed ideas contrary to Church teaching here on this thread?
The Apologist was quite a bit different than your post # 56. You never mentioned rare situations. It would take a lifetime to figure out what you were getting at in your post. By that time the poor fella would have starved to death or maybe even gotten harmed. And you are the one that asked for 'Church teaching" proof. An unmarried couple should never live together under any circumstances. If someone needs help, try to get them some help. God Bless, Memaw
 
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