Can baptized Catholics go to hell?

[rose321]

But since the consequences of sin is death and the Bible says lying is a sin, it sounds pretty mortal to me.

Respectfully opinion only pondering Is it not a fact whether one lies or does not lie, we are all going to go through the agony of death, we die?

St Peter tells us does he not >>keep ones conscious clear and our hands busy and you shall do well, is this not written?

Our own Conscious>> cannot lie>>> it always speaks the truth, does it not?

Mortals will lie through their own words spoken>>>> but our own conscious knows all truths and can never lie, can it?

Example >
One can deceive others or deceive the whole world, by lying, but >>>>ones very own conscious>>> can never be deceived nor can >>>>>ones own conscious lie>>>>>> our conscious can only speak the truth >>>>>for it knows all truths and our own conscious >>>can never ever be deceived can it?

On judgement day >>> our own conscious >>> >> will bare witness against us, for when we stand before him, we will not be able to lie can we?

One knows immed. within their >>>>>own conscious>>> they are lying to
themselves and to others, for their >>>own conscious>>>> bare witness against them >>speaks the truth and our own conscious>>makes it know to us immed we just told a lie, does it not?

Written is it not? As one thought it, so did one commit it?

Keep ones conscious clear and hands busy >>>St Peter tells us and you shall do well?

Our own conscious>> that cannot lie, but always speaks the truth>>>> will it not then>> bare witness against us on >>Judgement day?

St Peter teaches us, to keep ones hands busy serving the wants and needs of others and you shall do well?

Pondering is all. Peace

 

[Limoncello4021]

No souls are sent to hell.
I thought you didn’t believe in the afterlife? Curios why you always engage in discussions where you just seem like you want to fault Catholics or people on these threads. Wondering what you get out of it.
Souls condemn themselves to hell. God is mercy and love. We have free will, and hence God cannot save a soul that does not want him. In a real way, that’s the height of God’s love, his utter respect for our free will.
Your choice.

 

[semper_catholicus]

Anyone currently on earth could go to hell.

 

[QwertyGirl]

No souls are sent to hell.
I thought you didn’t believe in the afterlife? Curios why you always engage in discussions where you just seem like you want to fault Catholics or people on these threads. Wondering what you get out of it.
Souls condemn themselves to hell. God is mercy and love. We have free will, and hence God cannot save a soul that does not want him. In a real way, that’s the height of God’s love, his utter respect for our free will.
Your choice.

I don’t know why you thought I don’t believe in an afterlife. I am actually a big fan of the concept of it, and I do believe one exists.

I come here to learn. I have strong knowledge about the Cathlic faith, but I am interested in knowing what makes people tick and how they come to the conclusions they have. I have a lot of loved ones who are Catholic, and what I learn here about Catholics helps me relate to them better. I ask a lot of questions and I share what I believe too. I get a lot out of it and don’t feel I am taking without contributing. I guess I call it dialogue. I am sorry my presence seems to upset you. I really am. I don’t try to upset anyone here. Of course, if someone sends some snark my way, I can return it, too. But usually in jest. I don’t mean to harm anyone, and I don’t think I do.

 

[rose321]

The real determining factor here, I think, is in the gravity of the sin. Everyone’s talking about “full knowledge” and “deliberate consent”, but we seem to be forgetting the first criterion for a mortal sin: it has to be grave matter . Answer that question, and you have the answer to the “they’re not going to heaven?!?” question…

Respectfully opinion and pondering on.

What is considered by our Heavenly Father to be a >>grave matter>> to him, not to man?

Will our Heavenly Father if one, seeks mercy, doing so with a pure sincere heart of repentance, truly truly sorry, seeking, asking for forgiveness, will those grave matters one is speaking about>>> be forgiven?

Who can determine what is>> grave matter>> when our Heavenly Father makes it clear, break the least of the commandments, one has broken them all? Our Heavenly Father seems to make not one sin greater then another stating such does he not?

Written is it not?

All sins will be forgiven, but the only sin that >>>can never be forgiven>>>is the one against the Holy Spirit, which is what? >>>>>

Jesus did not die in vain, for we are told, he is our savior and came to pay in full the debt of our sins right>> whether one did so intentional or not intentional, would this be true?

Just questioning and examining.
Sorry I am bit confused with this topic can baptized Catholics go to hell?

Peace

 

[PetraG]

No souls are sent to hell.
…Souls condemn themselves to hell…

As the Catechism put it (boldface mine)
CCC 679 Christ is Lord of eternal life. Full right to pass definitive judgment on the works and hearts of men belongs to him as redeemer of the world. He “acquired” this right by his cross. The Father has given “all judgment to the Son” (Jn 5:22; cf. 5:27; Mt 25:31; Acts 10:42; 17:31; 2 Tim 4:1). Yet the Son did not come to judge, but to save and to give the life he has in himself. (Cf. Lk 21:12; Jn 15:19-20) By rejecting grace in this life, one already judges oneself, receives according to one’s works, and can even condemn oneself for all eternity by rejecting the Spirit of love. (Cf. Jn 3:18; 12:48; Mt 12:32; 1 Cor 3:12-15; Heb 6:4-6; 10:26-31.)

 

[Gorgias]

I have a tremendous respect for the concept of mystery. Some things, I think we just aren’t meant to know as humans… Instead, I just say I believe God will take care of me because he loves me, he made me, and he has my back.

That’s cool, but for Christians, that creates a problem.

On one hand, we have your assertion that “God will take care of me”, and implies “God won’t turn anyone away, even those who don’t want Him”. On the other hand, we have the Bible – which we view as inerrant – telling us that our acceptance of Him must happen in this life. We also have the teachings of Aquinas which, while not magisterial teaching, do a good job of explaining intellect and soul, and why this makes sense.

In other words, we have God’s word and plausible explanations of it, and on the other, your word unsubstantiated. I don’t know what that works for you, but you can see why it wouldn’t work for a Christian, right?

I don’t hold Christian beliefs when it comes to this. I don’t really believe in the concept of sin. I believe we are here to learn. God makes us imperfect (from our perception) so we can make mistakes and learn from them. Why? I have no idea. I trust He does though, and it is meaningful. So I live my life. I learn from my mistakes. I do better.

So, when you make a mistake, and it hurts someone, do you just shrug and say, “hey, that’s what I was made to do. I’ve learned, though, so… woo hoo for me!”…? Or, do you apologize and, having learned, resolve not to make that mistake again?

'Cause if it’s the latter and not the former, then… that’s what the Christian concept of sin and forgiveness is all about…

 

[QwertyGirl]

Your post indicates you may believe that people like me, who don’t subscribe to a particular religion, don’t have a moral compass.

When I wrong someone, I bend over backwards not only to apologize, but to right the wrong in whatever way I can. I am an introspective person. I evaluate my actions as I enact them. I don’t wait until the end of the day or the end of the month. I live in real time, as most of us do. I learn from my mistakes and I own them. Sometimes the only good that can come from them is that I learn how to be a better person. At least that is something. I believe it is a gift in the design of the big picture.

I understand Christians believe differently. Many people believe all kinds of things. I am good with that. I have studied and pulled the things that work well for me, keeping me on the straight and narrow so I live a good, clean life and hopefully help others to do the same.

 

[Gorgias]

Your post indicates you may believe that people like me, who don’t subscribe to a particular religion, don’t have a moral compass.

No, not at all. I’m just asking how you define it. (I kinda guessed that the answer would be “of course I apologize!”)

When I wrong someone, I bend over backwards not only to apologize, but to right the wrong in whatever way I can.

OK… so, the way I see it, you’re 99% of the way there to what Christians believe. When you make a mistake, and it directly harms a person or a creature or part of creation, doesn’t it also likewise offend the parent of the person, or the steward of that creature, or the person who made the creation? And if so, don’t you owe an apology to them, too?

 

[QwertyGirl]

I don’t see it that way. I believe we are created exactly as God wants us. He wants us to make mistakes, otherwise he would have created us mistake-free. It is sort of like when you were a kid and maybe your mom or a teacher or some other person in authority said to you “It is a shame you did that, the only person you are hurting is yourself”. Of course our mistakes can and do often times hurt other people. But if one doesn’t recognize that, take responsibility, and learn from it, they are only causing themselves a loss in those areas of personal growth. I don’t think God expects us to apologize for that, because either you are capable of those things where you are on your journey, or you aren’t. Hopefully, one eventually gets “there”. Not being there isn’t an offense to God, I don’t think. Again, He created us the way he wants us. Clearly, it is a process that doesn’t happen overnight for us to reach that level of spiritual awareness. I don’t think that is an accident.

I don’t see God as a being who wants or expects apologies (to Him) in the way Catholics do. I believe He wants us to learn from our experiences. That is why he put us here. To have experiences and to learn from them. That is what I believe, at least.

If there are apologies to be made, it would be for not living life to the fullest and for not learning from the experience. However, if you aren’t doing those two things, you probably don’t know what you aren’t doing, if that makes sense.

 

[Gorgias]

I don’t see God as a being who wants or expects apologies (to Him) in the way Catholics do. I believe He wants us to learn from our experiences.

I agree that He wants us to learn. However, your two sentences are distinct, IMHO – they don’t follow from one another.

Heck, our parents want us to learn as we grow, don’t they? And yet, they taught us to apologize when we make a mistake.

And, here’s the thing: the very definition of mortal sin isn’t what you’re making it out to be! It’s not “gee, I didn’t realize that this was bad” (such that ‘learning’ would result). The definition of mortal sin includes knowing that it was sinful and doing it with deliberate intent anyway. In other words, “mortal sin” is exactly what you think you should be sorry for – “not learning from [past] experience”!!!

So, if you don’t know – it’s not mortal.
If you aren’t freely choosing it – it’s not mortal.

I don’t know if you realize it yet or not, but… your conditions of what requires an apology are precisely the conditions the Church uses for sin that separates us from God!!!

 

[QwertyGirl]

I do understand the Catholic teachings. I have 16 years of catholic education behind me, so many of the moral teachings of the Church have informed the beliefs I have today.

I guess where we differ is that Catholics believe in sin. I believe in mistakes. Sin is evil, and I don’t really believe in evil that way. I believe in mental illness and I believe in people who don’t understand the importance of gaining knowledge in the area of spiritual awareness.

So, for example, if a wife loses her temper and says terrible things to her husband, that is not good. It is bad. But there is a lot to be learned from it. The bad part is if she and her husband don’t learn from it. But again, that isn’t what I believe is sinful. It is a bad because it is a missed opportunity. If she doesn’t learn next time to think before she speaks, if she doesn’t learn about redemption through a heart-felt apology. If she doesn’t provide her husband an opportunity to learn more about her and what makes her so impatient sometimes. If her actions shut down further communication because of what happened this time. If she denies her husband the opportunity to express his forgiveness of her. Miss enough opportunities in life and you may check out before reachng the level of spiritual awareness you would have reached otherwise.

None of the above though, in my estimation, is offensive to God. Again, he made us the way we are. These are the challenges we find in life to bring us to a higher level of spiritual awareness.

ETA: I guess to sum up, I believe the hardships and challenges we face in life is like taking the terrible tasting medicine so we come out better for it on the other side. We don’t create all of our hardships. Some of them are handed to us for reasons we may never know, in this life at least. I am OK with that. I trust God has my back and the backs of others when they suffer for reasons we don’t know. However, a lot of our hardships we create ourselves. I don’t look at it as a negative component to life. It IS life. It is what living is about. All of the goodness and all of the hardships rolled up together. It is up to us what we do with it.

 

[Holly3278]

A baptized Catholic can go to Hell and many have undoubtedly already sadly gone there. If you commit a mortal sin and die without making an Act of Perfect Contrition or without going to Confession then you’ll go to Hell.

 

[Gorgias]

So, for example, if a wife loses her temper and says terrible things to her husband, that is not good. It is bad.

But, if this isn’t the first time she’s lost her temper, then by your standards, she hasn’t learned from her prior mistakes, and therefore, owes an apology.

And, does her behavior affect anyone else? Is there really a “butterfly effect” from unlearned lessons and mistakes? Christians would argue ‘yes’ – and that it affects us all. It doesn’t harm God, mind you, but it is an offense against Him.

None of the above though, in my estimation, is offensive to God. Again, he made us the way we are.

Actually, if you remember what you were taught as a Catholic student, you’ll remember that this isn’t how He made us. The lesson of the “fall of Adam” is that God made us without sin, and with certain gifts. When humans decided to sin, we lost those gifts. Our “sinful nature” – or “proclivity to make mistakes” – isn’t how we were created. We did that to ourselves. So… I don’t think that we can, in good conscience, say “God made me this way”; we have to be honest and say “I made myself this way, in contradiction to how God made me”.

These are the challenges we find in life to bring us to a higher level of spiritual awareness.

Interesting perspective. It sounds difficult, though, doesn’t it? If the standard is “did I do the work necessary to bring myself to a higher level of spiritual awareness”, then we’ve got a God who’s calling us to do work – work that we’re unable to do!

On the other hand, the Christian response is “it’s not on me; it’s all on God.” I don’t have to achieve; I just have to believe. Now that sounds like what a loving God would ask of us!

 

[QwertyGirl]

I appreciate the points you make, but they don’t fall in line with my beliefs. You seem stuck on the concept of apology. Again, apology is always in the recipe of learning from ones mistakes. If you make a mistake, it usually affects other people negatively. That is why it is a mistake. So you apologize, you correct, and you move on. You do better, because you learned. I believe God gives all of us the ability to learn, in His time. It is why I don’t believe we need to be constatnly sending our apologies up to Him. I believe this world is just a layer. We are given plenty of opportunities in the next, just like we are here.

I don’t believe in much of the bible, and I especially don’t believe in the concept of original sin.

The God I believe in is a God of opportunity and love. I don’t claim to know much more than that, and I think that is the way it is supposed to be. Anyone desiring to believe in a higher power that is good, will usually agree with opportunity and love. I don’t believe in a God who judges or punishes.

 

[Gorgias]

I don’t believe in much of the bible, and I especially don’t believe in the concept of original sin.

OK. Fair enough.

The God I believe in is a God of opportunity and love.

I don’t believe in a God who judges or punishes.

In the end, though, it comes down to who God actually is, and not who we believe Him to be, right? And, what’s our best indicator of who He is? Is it our personal feelings about Him, or – if He’s directly revealed Himself to us, whether in words or actions or directly in the person of Jesus – is it in this Public Revelation?

I wish you luck in your journey, but… that’s a pretty scary path, just hoping that what you believe about God – in contradiction to what we know about Him from His revelation to us – is true…

 

[wkj_123]

if He’s directly revealed Himself to us,

Who is us? You do realize that people writing about what they saw, and you reading about it 2000 years later is absolutely positively no way God directly revealing himself. Passing down traditions from other people is not God directly revealing himself. Having a warm feeling in your stomache is not God directly revealing himself. I hear that a lot; “don’t worry God has directly revealed himself to us through as Jesus, it may not be the way you wanted though”. How is that directly revealing himself to me? If things you read constitute that, then I guess Harry Potter also directly revealed himself to me? I read about Abraham Lincoln once, but I definitely wouldn’t say Abe revealed himself to me.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Thank you for your openness, I believe it does help folks.

For some reason there is a current Christian fashion to assume that “Agnostics - n - Atheists” have no moral compass. The same group usually freaks out when they hear of pro-life Atheists!

 

[Gorgias]

Who is us?

Humanity.

You do realize that people writing about what they saw, and you reading about it 2000 years later is absolutely positively no way God directly revealing himself.

So, the Founders of the USA didn’t write a Constitution or Declaration of Independence for us?

The writers of great literature didn’t intend us as an audience?

God revealed Himself to humans, and intended His revelation to be passed down. Are you suggesting that the only way God could reveal Himself is to do it over and over again, in each generation?

Passing down traditions from other people is not God directly revealing himself.

Not traditions, mind you – but direct revelation. If a co-worker tells you “hey, the boss says we need to clean up the kitchen”, isn’t this evidence of his intent for you to do something?

If things you read constitute that, then I guess Harry Potter also directly revealed himself to me?

Harry Potter is a fictional character. Big difference.

I read about Abraham Lincoln once, but I definitely wouldn’t say Abe revealed himself to me.

Was Abe talking to all Americans in his Gettysburg Address? When he talked about the tasks at hand, was he only talking to those who were standing at Gettysburg that day? Or was he talking to all Americans, each one of us, then and now, who answer his challenge “that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth”?

 

[QwertyGirl]

I have faith.