Can conservative Catholic men become controlling in marriage?

[smc83]

Of course they can become controlling in a marriage, but that is a danger with anybody. I am lucky my husband who is a fairly conservative Catholic is not controlling in our marriage. I think the most important thing is to not rush into a marriage with anybody. Talk about your concerns, watch how he treats you and even more importantly your friends, family, and the people in his own life, and finally make sure that you really want to be married to him (not just his ideals) for the rest of your life. Everybody has their faults just make sure you can live with them before you get married.

 

[Dale_M]

Seek to marry your best friend of the opposite sex. Do not marry anyone else. Especially, don’t get “swept off your feet” by a complete stranger, where you move to the “romantic” stage before ever getting to the “friendship” stage. Be friends. Be best friends.

I think there is a great deal of wisdom in that advice.

And for the love of God and of all that is holy, don’t even date anyone that you’re afraid of, or who needs to be treated “a certain way” lest he (or she) “go off” as if he (or she) were a bomb; not a human being.

This advice should be in boldface and underlined.

 

[chevalier]

Gosh - I’m not entirely fond of my subject title and you know what - if you are a man and this DOESN’T apply to you - then good! I am asking as a single woman.

I feel caught between a rock and a hard place. I am quite conservative and it would be nice for me to share the most important views of mine if I were married. I feel that if I don’t, I lack the ability to have any real substantive conversations without feeling the frustration and the chasm that follows.

But I am worried that some Christian men may abuse the “submit to your husbands in everything” clause to be overbearing or control freaks. It’s like I don’t want a nominal or “liberal” Christian but I am starting to get worried that a conservative one will be too controlling. I keep trying to tell myself that in a true Christian marriage, this would not happen. but anyway.

How do I go about such a thing? Is seeking a devout Catholic man asking to be controlled, or are there good men that realize that the submission clause is not a license to boss your wife around? it’s good to choose a man who would be a good leader - spiritually, especially. but can such leadership be abused?

I have a feeling that this could be an offensive post sigh But what can I do - not ask? I want to ask because it’s important for me

It depends. I’m pretty conservative and at the same time, the last thing I would want would be to assert my will over other people’s. No prohibitions or commands from me and no surveillance. On the other hand, leaving choices to people to whom they belong doesn’t mean accepting just about any choice they will make. For some reason, some people would still find this controlling.

On the one hand, I believe surveillance to be unethical and demeaning. On the other hand, I’m a criminal trial lawyer by education and there’s little lying to me. I will always find out and I’ll quickly sense something’s wrong. I have a strong sense of justice and I know when a bargain is unequal or someone’s not being even-handed, and it’s very hard for me to take. At that point, I won’t be ready to trust. If something is strikingly wrong, I will look at material evidence and compare, although I once spotted an inconsistency with what the same person said in a conversation half a year before just like that. I very well understand, that we aren’t always consistent, we don’t always precisely say what we mean, we don’t always put up our best act, we don’t always live out our best motivations. I don’t expect blunt honesty and robotic consistency. But if someone thinks he can cut the edges with me, that person is going to be disappointed. I will probably spot that without trying and the resentment will probably become visible. Many people would find this controlling or close.

Where I admit I might be getting rather controlling, is continued exposure to things that don’t really add up. Fake excuses, inconsistent official explanations, behaviour in fact not matching with what it should be in theory etc, I will be moving farther and farther towards some forms of verification (e.g. when someone claimed to like me but claimed to have little or no have time in some circumstances, whereas there were serious clues toward avoidance that I couldn’t ignore, I ended up trying things like logging off and then on and sometimes I checked if people would do as they told me they were intending to). Occasionally, I might even pressure people to do or not something specific, but these days, I suppose I’d have to be really messed up by someone before it came to that, and I suspect the last time I did that it was more about finding out how consistent the person was and how real the stated motives were, than actually getting any form of compliance with anything.

So all in all, lots of reasons for other people, especially of the female gender, to call me controlling, but few with which I’d actually agree. Judgement up to buyer.

 

[jenlovesyu]

As for how to tell if a man is controlling, there is only one way, date him. You will never find out in the first 6 months so don’t even try to tell yourself you know isn’t. When the excitement wears off look for warning signs such as:

• liking you better without makeup, but to the point where he doesn’t let/guilts you out of wearing it
• not wanting you to go to the gym claiming you’re perfect just the way you are. Someone who respects you would tell you that you’re perfect just the way you are, but will support you 100% in your efforts to be healthy
• not liking it when you dress up/look attractive. Look for subtle signs, he will rarely say it outright.
• using emotional blackmail or mental manipulation to get what he wants. Think sulking or getting angry over dumb things (I once had a boyfriend who yelled at me because an 11-year-old boy accidentally walked in on me getting changed.) Look for irrationality.
• Bad relationship with his mother and sisters. Though don’t take it at face value when they say that they have a good relationship. Watch them fight, if he respects them when he is angry then he will respect you when he’s angry. If he turns into a monster, that’s what’ll happen with you eventually.

These are warning signs for any man, regardless of where he sits on the political spectrum or what his religion may be. All the conservative Catholic men I know are amazing husbands. Be careful not to stereotype, but also be careful not to trust someone too quickly.

I’m fairly young so I dunno if you want my :twocents: but Adrianna just gave a perfect description of my ex boyfriend. And for the record, even though he was baptized Catholic, he certainly was not a practicing/conservative Catholic. His bad behavior is a result of bad parenting. I hope you realize that your father doesn’t know what he’s talking about because there are plenty of decent and practicing Catholic men out there.

 

[DL82]

• liking you better without makeup, but to the point where he doesn’t let/guilts you out of wearing it
• not wanting you to go to the gym claiming you’re perfect just the way you are. Someone who respects you would tell you that you’re perfect just the way you are, but will support you 100% in your efforts to be healthy
• not liking it when you dress up/look attractive. Look for subtle signs, he will rarely say it outright.

I never thought of this as manipulative. I’ve often preferred women to look natural, and always thought I was just letting them ‘be themselves’, not have to make a special effort or wear a mask for me. At the same time, I don’t wear a mask for them. I never realised this could be a sign of manipulative behaviour before. I guess that’s something I need to address.

 

[whatevergirl]

I never thought of this as manipulative. I’ve often preferred women to look natural, and always thought I was just letting them ‘be themselves’, not have to make a special effort or wear a mask for me. At the same time, I don’t wear a mask for them. I never realised this could be a sign of manipulative behaviour before. I guess that’s something I need to address.

I don’t think in and of itself, it’s manipulative, but coupled together with the other warning signs that Adrianna mentions, yes it can be. But, also, it’s in how someone requests something of another. If the tone is demanding or made to make someone feel badly…ie: “Why do you wear makeup so much, to attract other men?” as opposed to “I love when you wear little makeup, you look so pretty without it.” See the difference? I dated an abusive guy before my husband, and he would ‘guilt’ me into making so many changes. So, you probably don’t come across that way, I have a feeling. It’s all in the tone, that takes something thoughtful to say to someone, and makes it sound controlling. Just my two cents.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I never thought of this as manipulative. I’ve often preferred women to look natural, and always thought I was just letting them ‘be themselves’, not have to make a special effort or wear a mask for me. At the same time, I don’t wear a mask for them. I never realised this could be a sign of manipulative behaviour before. I guess that’s something I need to address.

It’s NOT!!!

I cannot speak for anyone else on this thread but I loathe the damage feminism has done to our notions of both masculinity and femininity.

You cannot turn on the TV today without being sickened by an avalanche of hate-filled portrayals of all adult men as stupid, bumbling fools (any, repeat, any TV commercial shows this in abundance).

The ‘common knowledge’ of men as evil, manipulative, ‘patriarchal’ killers is right off Satan’s teleprompter. Men need to stop apologizing for every breath they take.

 

[GraceDK]

It’s NOT!!!

I cannot speak for anyone else on this thread but I loathe the damage feminism has done to our notions of both masculinity and femininity.

You cannot turn on the TV today without being sickened by an avalanche of hate-filled portrayals of all adult men as stupid, bumbling fools (any, repeat, any TV commercial shows this in abundance).

The ‘common knowledge’ of men as evil, manipulative, ‘patriarchal’ killers is right off Satan’s teleprompter. Men need to stop apologizing for every breath they take.

Wow… I didn’t realise your media and movie industry is completely run by women… or maybe by “feministic males”… or who is it?
I don’t have a TV but I have watched some of the imports from America where mostly both men and women act like air heads. Is that due to feminism … or due to the age we live in where people are not brought up as religious people who know truth, dignity and beauty.

I hear a lot of talk about manbashing, but I think that the talk about feminism always makes me feel like all women are being bashed as a gender. Like the women gender is responsible for the whole culture of death and the men had no say in it… I know thats probably not your oppinion, but it sometimes comes out that way.
But please… we dont have all the power in the world. We are only half… not even half of the world population… So men can really change things when they decide to change them…

 

[chevalier]

It’s probably not going to endear me to the gentle readers, but I’ll have a word or two about the last point of the list DL82 was addressing above.

Namely, subtle signs of not liking when a woman dresses - as she would judge it - attractively - can mean a number of things, not all of them being bad - at least in my judgement.

No man likes it when his wife or special friend acts on the need to confirm her attractiveness with a wider circle of men. This may look selfish, but I do not believe it be off on the point of justice.

Further, the whole thing with attractiveness is not always just looking good and looking at people who look good, it’s sometimes more interactional, such as when it involves an exchange of compliments or some proactive effort directed towards obtaining those signs of affirmation, such as compliments or longing looks.

Many men will believe that the interaction described above is not proper to engage in for a woman who’s married or invested in a serious relationship. It will depend on the man’s sensitivity to such issues and the particularities of the woman’s act.

Obviously same goes for men when the roles reverse. I’m not being gender-selective here.

My personal preference is generally for freedom and for looking good, but I have little or no acceptance of the steamier fashions. I am radically against fashions relying on clothes purposefully too small, I don’t accept the idea that it’s somehow cool to show some underwear and I’m at odds with the idea of cleavage, even though it’s long been there in traditional fashion. I would be very reluctant to voice my dislike of it because I would hate to dictate someone’s clothing choices. As a result, perhaps someone who knew me well could detect some unvoiced resentment piling up in me before I talked about it. And yes, I’d take it the interactional way, I’d feel somewhat cheated and while I wouldn’t launch any fidelity investigations, I’d probably distance myself. This could be problematic from the moral point of view if I were married, so I’d have to talk about it rather than distancing myself. Et voila, you’d have a controlling confrontation and I’d be the bad guy controlling the poor woman and forcing my choices on her. Except I don’t buy that rhetoric.

 

[Mickey_Finn]

Lady Bug, I think Catholic men are like catholic woman VERY diverse. You can certainly find a Catholic man who’ll love and respect you.

Some ethnic groups run their families one way. Others differently. I would do like others have advised and really get to know the guy. Have a broad spectrum of life experiences with him. See how he handles them. If he’s a likely candidate and asks you. Sit him down and set the ground rules. Remember, your looking for a life mate. You can rule someone out for character traits you don’t like.

I hope you find the right guy and live happily ever after.

 

[dashso40]

I am married to a conservative Catholic man and he is not controlling…We’ve been married a long time…

 

[Just_Lurking]

I don’t think in and of itself, it’s manipulative, but coupled together with the other warning signs that Adrianna mentions, yes it can be. But, also, it’s in how someone requests something of another. If the tone is demanding or made to make someone feel badly…ie: “Why do you wear makeup so much, to attract other men?” as opposed to “I love when you wear little makeup, you look so pretty without it.” See the difference? I dated an abusive guy before my husband, and he would ‘guilt’ me into making so many changes. So, you probably don’t come across that way, I have a feeling. It’s all in the tone, that takes something thoughtful to say to someone, and makes it sound controlling. Just my two cents.

This is good point.

A husband wanting dinner served at 6:00pm isn’t controlling. But a husband who breaks all the dishes against the wall 5 seconds after 6:00pm when the dinner isn’t on the table is not only controlling but abusive.

It isn’t necessarily the request that is controlling, it is the enforcement of that request. And the fact that the requests only go in one direction.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

Sure, they can be controlling. They can be redheaded too, or blonde, or brunette. Liberals, atheists, etc can become controlling too. I guess my point is being a practicing Catholic (I’m assuming that’s what you mean by conservative) doesn’t make people immune to faults, but certainly does not mean they will have these faults.

Now, the teachings of the Catholic Church on marriage do not support the idea of a man being controlling/superior, etc. so odds are the closer this man is to practicing the teachings of the Church on marriage the better. If all marriages followed what the Church teaches on marriage perfectly, there would be nothing but marital bliss in all marriages.

I know that my marriage personally would be a lot worse off if we hadn’t learned about what the Church teaches on marriage. I had always been very calculative growing up. I made sure that if I gave an inch, everyone else had to give at least an inch too, if not I would feel taken advantage of or something. That kind of thing. I remember reading how in marriage, one shouldn’t try to measure everything 50% 50%, that one should give oneself 100% to each other, 110%. That has helped me so much. I know we would be constantly fighting if I tried to keep everything perfectly even, yet instead I enjoy giving myself 110% to my husband without worrying about him taking advantage, doing things because I love him. He does the same, and it melts me and makes me feel so loved when he does things for me too, without measuring or calculating. If he didn’t believe that he had to give me 100% also, I’m sure it would be more difficult. Now, if I ever feel overwhelmed, I just tell him, and he is willing to do what he can for me. Same goes the other way. It makes things so much easier. Some people may get to this conclusion on their own, but having the Church to give us guidance is like having a map or a compas guiding you, instead of just hopefully finding the way on your own. This is one of the reasons I only wanted to marry a Catholic. I knew that disagreements would come, but if we both recognized and accepted the teachings of the Church as the Truth, it would be (and has been) that much easier. Now, we both have our faults, o I have plenty for both of us), but we deal with it and work on helping each other (and he is one of the most patient men I have ever met, which was a perfect match for me.)

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Wow… I didn’t realise your media and movie industry is completely run by women… or maybe by “feministic males”… or who is it?
I don’t have a TV but I have watched some of the imports from America where mostly both men and women act like air heads. Is that due to feminism … or due to the age we live in where people are not brought up as religious people who know truth, dignity and beauty.

I hear a lot of talk about manbashing, but I think that the talk about feminism always makes me feel like all women are being bashed as a gender. Like the women gender is responsible for the whole culture of death and the men had no say in it… I know thats probably not your oppinion, but it sometimes comes out that way.
But please… we dont have all the power in the world. We are only half… not even half of the world population… So men can really change things when they decide to change them…

Feminism has NOTHING to do with ‘women’ and everything to do with destroying both men and women.

Its roots are found in eugenics.

And if you did turn on the TV, you would see ad after ad and show after show where only women and children are portrayed as intelligent, and men as bumbling morons.

And we’re supposed to laugh at this? Or shrug and pretend it doesn’t exist?

 

[Lady_Bug]

Now, the teachings of the Catholic Church on marriage do not support the idea of a man being controlling/superior, etc. so odds are the closer this man is to practicing the teachings of the Church on marriage the better. If all marriages followed what the Church teaches on marriage perfectly, there would be nothing but marital bliss in all marriages.

I know that my marriage personally would be a lot worse off if we hadn’t learned about what the Church teaches on marriage. I had always been very calculative growing up. I made sure that if I gave an inch, everyone else had to give at least an inch too, if not I would feel taken advantage of or something. That kind of thing. I remember reading how in marriage, one shouldn’t try to measure everything 50% 50%, that one should give oneself 100% to each other, 110%. That has helped me so much. I know we would be constantly fighting if I tried to keep everything perfectly even, yet instead I enjoy giving myself 110% to my husband without worrying about him taking advantage, doing things because I love him. He does the same, and it melts me and makes me feel so loved when he does things for me too, without measuring or calculating. If he didn’t believe that he had to give me 100% also, I’m sure it would be more difficult. Now, if I ever feel overwhelmed, I just tell him, and he is willing to do what he can for me. Same goes the other way. It makes things so much easier. Some people may get to this conclusion on their own, but having the Church to give us guidance is like having a map or a compas guiding you, instead of just hopefully finding the way on your own. This is one of the reasons I only wanted to marry a Catholic. I knew that disagreements would come, but if we both recognized and accepted the teachings of the Church as the Truth, it would be (and has been) that much easier. Now, we both have our faults, o I have plenty for both of us), but we deal with it and work on helping each other (and he is one of the most patient men I have ever met, which was a perfect match for me.)

lifeisbeautiful, I also feel that the Catholic teachings on marriage are the best teachings. And what better feeling would there be than to have your spouse be able to share those teachings with you.

If had gotten married earlier in life without knowing these teachings and later realized that I might have been in the “wrong” marriage (for me), I don’t know if I could live with myself. I wish I were not 29 and single but I was ignorant on what Christian (well, to be specific, Catholic) marriage was all about. I wasn’t even a Christian technically. I don’t know how my life would have turned out had I married being oblivious to all this.

 

[zaramarie81]

thanks for your insight so far -

it is a frustrating thought to deal with. because since I am the only on in my family who is so spiritual, the religious disunity perturbs me. Being unequally yoked would exacerbate the problem. Isn’t it important for the two spouses to share common values? That is the ideal way. The prospective spouse definitely needs to be on the same page regarding faith and morals. I don’t want to put myself in any position of endangering my faith by being with a nominal Catholic yet the prospect of a domineering man, as I have seen from you guys’ posts, is troubling. I am still trying to sort everything out. It’s good to read perspectives from you.

Lady Bug - anything’s possible but I think one things is important in dating is approaching the relationship from a very holistic perspective. In other words… don’t just be looking for a conservative man or a man who can quote that part of scripture and discuss it at length. Look for someone who, overall is respectful, kind, fun, and who shares your Catholic faith etc. You may be surprised… some men who don’t appear outwardly “religious” are in fact, very much genuine in their faith.

Let me give an example… I used to focus alot on finding that conservative Catholic man and pondered the whole wife/husband role a lot. Not bad things at all. I did find a man who seemed the perfect fit. We had great discussions, he could quote all sorts of Scripture, would attend Mass sometimes twice a day, etc. But this man actually did end up having some controlling aspects to him. To this day, I am trying to heal from some of his subtle manipulations. Not all men who are this religious are like that, certainly, but umm, this one was!

Now, I’ve met a wonderful man who at first frustrated me because he wasn’t praying rosaries every day and wanting to expound on Scripture. We had a brief conversation about Ephesians to which he just said, “Yeah, that’s a fancy way of saying you’re supposed to be equal partners in marriage.” Honestly, I hope and pray I get to marry this man! He loves his faith just as much as the first man, but just expresses it a bit differently (in a very manly way actually - and yes, I would describe him as “conservative”).

So… that’s the longwinded way of saying to just take it one situation at a time, and try to find the person you connect with above anything else.

 

[Lady_Bug]

Lady Bug - anything’s possible but I think one things is important in dating is approaching the relationship from a very holistic perspective. In other words… don’t just be looking for a conservative man or a man who can quote that part of scripture and discuss it at length. Look for someone who, overall is respectful, kind, fun, and who shares your Catholic faith etc. You may be surprised… some men who don’t appear outwardly “religious” are in fact, very much genuine in their faith.

Let me give an example… I used to focus alot on finding that conservative Catholic man and pondered the whole wife/husband role a lot. Not bad things at all. I did find a man who seemed the perfect fit. We had great discussions, he could quote all sorts of Scripture, would attend Mass sometimes twice a day, etc. But this man actually did end up having some controlling aspects to him. To this day, I am trying to heal from some of his subtle manipulations. Not all men who are this religious are like that, certainly, but umm, this one was!

Now, I’ve met a wonderful man who at first frustrated me because he wasn’t praying rosaries every day and wanting to expound on Scripture. We had a brief conversation about Ephesians to which he just said, “Yeah, that’s a fancy way of saying you’re supposed to be equal partners in marriage.” Honestly, I hope and pray I get to marry this man! He loves his faith just as much as the first man, but just expresses it a bit differently (in a very manly way actually - and yes, I would describe him as “conservative”).

So… that’s the longwinded way of saying to just take it one situation at a time, and try to find the person you connect with above anything else.

Actually I am more fond of the man in your 2nd scenario LOL. While I am a person who hates small talk, I’m not sure I’d be ok with the man in your 1st scenario either.

life is hard LOL (no kidding)

 

[rpp]

Lady Bug, as a conservative Catholic single man, I understand your plight, but from the other side. I do not want a woman who will defer every decision to me. The quote from Ephesians 5 should be read in it’s full context.

17 Therefore, do not continue in ignorance, but try to understand what is the will of the Lord.

18 And do not get drunk on wine, in which lies debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit,

19 addressing one another (in) psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and playing to the Lord in your hearts,

20 giving thanks always and for everything in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God the Father.

21 5 Be subordinate to one another out of reverence for Christ. 6

22 Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord.

23 For the husband is head of his wife just as Christ is head of the church, he himself the savior of the body.

24 As the church is subordinate to Christ, so wives should be subordinate to their husbands in everything.

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ loved the church and handed himself over for her

26 to sanctify her, cleansing her by the bath of water with the word,

27 that he might present to himself the church in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.

28 So (also) husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.

29 For no one hates his own flesh but rather nourishes and cherishes it, even as Christ does the church, 30 Because we are members of his body.

31 “For this reason a man shall leave (his) father and (his) mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”

32 This is a great mystery, but I speak in reference to Christ and the church.

33 In any case, each one of you should love his wife as himself, and the wife should respect her husband.

Ephesian 5:17-33 NAB

As we can see, the real burden here is on men who are called up to sacrifice themselves for their wife. In fact this sacrifice is likened to Christ’s sacrifice on the cross in verse 25.

Here is something to consider. Look into E5 Men. This is a group of men, single and married, who fast and do penance for their wives or future wives. The whole point of this group is to help develop an authentic understanding of Ephesians chapter 5 and what mean are really called upon to do and be.

Here at CAF, there are two groups you may be interested in. Look in my signature you will see links for Catholic Singles in the USA and E5 Men and Women.

I will conclude by saying that an authentically Catholic man, who desires personal holiness for both himself and his (future) wife will suppress any desire to dominate, but rather will man-up and lead, not dictate but lead. Real men never dominate.

 

[OLHope]

Yes, conservative men, just like liberal, moderate, green, alien men who are biblical can all become controlling, SO can wives, and believe me, I have seen it! We would not have MIL threads if that was not such a huge concern. Conservative women, and my evil nemesis the liberal woman who keeps behaving conservative, little witch! [Sorry, I am thinking of a specific hypocritical person.]

One situation that rings true where a man took all of their kids college money and part of their retirement to throw into a shady business deal, the wife refused profusely, over and over, perhaps nagging, but he was sooo sure, they were Christian, and he resorted to the darn eph5 quote to “shut her up,” obviously this man thought he could make money, but in his naiveté trusted shady investors over his own wife, his impulse for greed, for importance, and what I obviously saw as a gambling problem taking precedence over his wifes opinion. This happened so many moons ago, and too, they live like mr. p, devoted to the marriage, in the same home, in different parts of the house, with much avoidance, and virtually no communication. Again something I should not know, but I do. And I learn. I do not think I have to tell many of the people here, that bottomless pit in your stomach feel, when you lose that much money or life plan, it is definitely not the same feeling as the cute butterflies in your stomach from meeting someone you like, both of which can physically ail your heart.

 

[OLHope]

I want to elaborate on the quoting scripture and canons for a bit, as I told you before, about some men who use verses against their wives. Ladies, you are not innocent of this as well. Here is how the story went, fresh from my memory at twelve years old. Not my parents, I can assure you!

Wife is having severe MIL problems, needs to keep her distance, but is being typically intrusive and instigating. She will not cut the cord for her favorite son for nothing. This oppresses, depresses wife immensely, so she revives her Catholic faith, is an EWTN addict, reads the bible all the time, and HENCE, she recalls that Genesis 2:24 from her wedding readings and begins quoting it, I am not going to even write it out! I will give all of you a split second to think about how she went about using that one. Now that you are there in that understanding, it worked on him, but it drove him to the point where he had to seek out a passage to throw over her, and THAT is where Eph5 reared it’s ugly head. This man is a great person! This marriage is one of the best examples that I actually know. Ohhh, but I know too much about it. More heartache than happiness in so many of the situations.