Can God defy logic or resolve paradox?

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Bahman said:
Logic is universal form of knowledge. God is not beyond our understanding.
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Two quotes from Augustine ( I do love to quote better minds than mine 🙂 )
“If you have understood, then this is not God. If you were able to understand, then you understood something else instead of God. If you were able to understand even partially, then you have deceived yourself with your own thoughts.”
Sermon 52 Section 16
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“God is not what you imagine or what you think you understand. If you understand you have failed."
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Bah man in post #18 you agree that God is logic. You have repeatedly said God is illogical… WTH.
 
Neofight said:
Logic is defyed and paradox resolved by understanding that can only be gained through Truth. And, God is Truth.
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But logic is part of truth so it cannot be defied. Moreover, it is possible that a paradox is unresolvable within a logical system for example the paradox that I cited in OP.
 
meltzerboy said:
We have a taste of defying logic ourselves by means of surrealist poetry, painting, and music. Synesthesia–seeing sounds and hearing colors–seems illogical but exists. I believe through art and real-life happenings we gain a glimpse of the divine. In short, the answer is yes.
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I cannot understand you. Could you please elaborate?
 
LethalMouse said:
Now the grand question being how do you prove universal logic in an alternate universe with universal logic being as it is known here? Even if you logically deduce something, IF there is different logic such deduction falls flat.
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1+1=2 always if even nothing exists at all.
 
Bahman said:
What if a paradox is unresolvable? For example the paradox that I cite in OP?
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Perhaps we differ on definitions.

Paradox: two statements to be merely in apparent contradiction but on closer examination are seen to be compatible.
Mystery: One or more statements that cannot be proven true or false by experience or reason.

How God exists in time and outside time is beyond all human experience. Being of faith, I accept the proposition as true and seek to find a congruent rationale that is disputable but not disprovable.
 
laocmo said:
No offense, but your answer shows you don’t have that ounce of that intellect you mention. Logic is not a created thing, it is a natural consequence of human reasoning. God did not invent it. It would exist if there were no God. 1+3 will never equal 5. Even if God demanded it be so. And as for paradoxes. They are just statements in a language that is imprecise enough to allow such meaningless statements. God could not make a square circle no matter how he tried. There is a big list of things God can not do.
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God invented everything. Do you really think that something so insignificant as a human discovered logic? God has the power to un-create all of creation and form it in any way he deems fit. There is nothing done in God’s Universe that God does not have a part in. The Christian God is all powerful. He can make a square circle if he decided to do it. For all we know he has done it, and humans are so insignificant that they don’t realize it that all of the accumulated knowledge in human history is completely wrong.

Humans can not dictate any universal truths to God. A monkey is far more likely to type the collected works of Shakespeare we are to correctly dictate to God what he can and can’t do. If God decides 1+3=5, 1+3 does =5. The only certainty is that I don’t know everything which is something that I gladly admit. But I am smart enough to realize that in God all things are possible.
 
o_mlly said:
Perhaps we differ on definitions.

Paradox: two statements to be merely in apparent contradiction but on closer examination are seen to be compatible.
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That’s one definition. There is another definition that is the polar opposite:
a statement or proposition that, despite sound (or apparently sound) reasoning from acceptable premises, leads to a conclusion that seems senseless, logically unacceptable, or self-contradictory.
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WJeffrey said:
God invented everything. …The Christian God is all powerful. He can make a square circle if he decided to do it. … If God decides 1+3=5, 1+3 does = 5. … I am smart enough to realize that in God all things are possible.
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Then your particular God is a non-existent magician. The real God can do everything that is possible. In no way could he do something that is impossible. You seem to think that anything is possible. That is completely nonsense. There are many things that are impossible to even God. It would be impossible for a human to kill God. You probably would agree with that. If he can do the impossible then he could kill himself. Fact is he could not.
 
Aloysium said:
We did. He was resurrected and thereby conquered death, permitting us now to live forever with Him
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Only Jesus’ human aspect was killed, his divine aspect never died and neither did the other 2 persons in the godhead.
 
seagal said:
Only Jesus’ human aspect was killed, his divine aspect never died and neither did the other 2 persons in the godhead.
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Yes, I get what you are trying to say. On the other hand, our spirit is eternal, so perhaps no one dies. Yet, we all will have our Gethsemane, not pleasant for sure.
I thought being killed implied the death of the body. Jesus as the Word incarnate was killed by us. It demonstrated the Father’s love for us, that He would sacrifice His Son who would die that we might be saved.
 
Aloysium said:
I thought being killed implied the death of the body.
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Yes, which is why it doesn’t make sense that you contradicted laocmo when s/he said it was impossible to kill God since God is a spiritual being.
 
laocmo said:
Then your particular God is a non-existent magician. The real God can do everything that is possible. In no way could he do something that is impossible. You seem to think that anything is possible. That is completely nonsense. There are many things that are impossible to even God. It would be impossible for a human to kill God. You probably would agree with that. If he can do the impossible then he could kill himself. Fact is he could not.
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What do you base the assertion on that God could not kill himself if he so chose? It would go against my perception of His nature. Like any human, my perception is faulty. What exactly would prevent I Am from ceasing to exist if he so chose?

Maybe humans should figure out how to recreate all of creation up until this moment before they set limits on what God can and cannot do.
 
seagal said:
That’s one definition. There is another definition that is the polar opposite:
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I think not. The definitions are identical in meaning.

“a statement or proposition that, despite sound (or apparently sound) reasoning from acceptable premises, leads to a conclusion that seems senseless, logically unacceptable, or self-contradictory.”

“a seemingly absurd or self-contradictory statement or proposition that when investigated or explained may prove to be well founded or true.”
google.com/search?q=paradox+definition&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
 
WJeffrey said:
God invented everything. Do you really think that something so insignificant as a human discovered logic? God has the power to un-create all of creation and form it in any way he deems fit. There is nothing done in God’s Universe that God does not have a part in. The Christian God is all powerful. He can make a square circle if he decided to do it. For all we know he has done it, and humans are so insignificant that they don’t realize it that all of the accumulated knowledge in human history is completely wrong.

Humans can not dictate any universal truths to God. A monkey is far more likely to type the collected works of Shakespeare than we are to correctly dictate to God what he can and can’t do. If God decides 1+3=5, 1+3 does =5. The only certainty is that I don’t know everything which is something that I gladly admit. But I am smart enough to realize that in God all things are possible.
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Agreed.

And always the proviso that God could do anything, but ONLY if He wanted. And He gives every appearance of wanting us to have a universe which makes sense - logic, law, mathematics, reason, love, objective truth.

To claim that there are logical constants - wisdom - which God can’t change even if He wanted is heretical in my opinion because this would imply that God had nothing to do with their existence.

1 + 1 + 1 = ??? Three?

Father + Son + Holy Spirit =. ???
 
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