Can God do evil?

[bogeydogg]

So Satan is not evil, just malevolent?

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Unless you are trying to save your cake and eat it to.

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**God created all things seen and unseen. Evil is there somewhere. **

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**Evil just did not come into being. **

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No, Satan’s base nature is evil and as such his actions are morally evil (sin). God’s nature is good, period. As such, since Scripture interprets Scripture, we cannot assert the “evil” spoken of to be an accusation against God’s character but rather an expression of His judgment, terrible though it may be.

God created creatures and to some he gave free will and moral accountability. As such He created the possibility that evil would come to be but you cannot assert that God is responsible for evil. If you do then no act of evil (sin if you will) could ever be counted against the one who commits it because God would ultimately be responsible. And if that were so, then God is not only evil because He authors evil, but He is also unjust because He would be holding to account creatures who could not help themselves.

And yes, evil did just come into being.

 

[bogeydogg]

BogeyDogg is doing nothing but whitewashing the Old Testament to reflect the New Testament God.

Huh?

I came right out and said that God passes judgment on His creation and does so in righteousness. How did you take that and get the idea that I’m watering God down?

Also, are you suggesting that the OT and NT speak of different Gods?

 

[GRACE1022]

This is all very simple, basic Christian theology. Evil spirits (historically speaking) are fallen angels. God created angels. Some rebelled of their own choice. They became evil spirits/fallen angels and along with their fallen leader, attempt to scatter the sheep.

Hell was “prepared” (according to Scriptures) to deal with the fallen angels. It was not prepared for fallen humans.

I’m not sure why this is so complicated to some

Where in all of Scripture does it say that God created Satan and evil beings? It doesn’t.

Peace…

MW

So you are saying that you believe that hell is not for humans ever? This how I am reading it by you saying it’s just for fallen angels???

GRACE

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

So you are saying that you believe that hell is not for humans ever? This how I am reading it by you saying it’s just for fallen angels???

GRACE

My non-Catholic belief is that humans are not destined for hell forever. However, the Devil and fallen angels will be destined for hell. For me, hell is a state of mind that is separation from God and is described as “outer darkness” and “weeping and gnashing of teeth”.

God will reconcile all things to Himself, by purging all mankind from sin, restoring the earth, instituting the New Jerusalem and containing the Devil and fallen angels to eternal separation from God, because it is impossible for them to be saved from God’s wrath.

This obviously goes against Catholic teaching.

Peace…

MW

 

[GRACE1022]

My non-Catholic belief is that humans are not destined for hell forever. However, the Devil and fallen angels will be destined for hell. For me, hell is a state of mind that is separation from God and is described as “outer darkness” and “weeping and gnashing of teeth”.

God will reconcile all things to Himself, by purging all mankind from sin, restoring the earth, instituting the New Jerusalem and containing the Devil and fallen angels to eternal separation from God, because it is impossible for them to be saved from God’s wrath.

This obviously goes against Catholic teaching.

Peace…

MW

Oh yes and I’m a catholic practicing and always interested and open to others views on things, hence God creating us all different. Many obviously read the bible and even interpret in
their own way different then others.
I believe that Hell was created by God due to the fallen angels
wanting to seperate themselves from him.
I feel because of Lucipher he made it a place for humans to go
to if they also wish to continue on their evil ways and seperate themselves from God.

He forgives, so for me it’s easy to see that those who sin HARSH sins, murder, child incest, or child pedifilers etc…will go.
But those who REPENT and change their ways for good and
prove that their repenting is HONEST and true to him then
he will allow them into heaven.

GRACE:thumbsup:

 

[bogeydogg]

I believe that while Hell is not a place originally meant for Hell, however it is the fate of some because of the decisions they make within their own free will that they will go to Hell. Also in Luke 16:26 Jesus teaches that Abraham tells the rich man in torment in fire that, “…between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.” If one takes this teaching literally then I don’t think we could assert that anyone gets out of Hell once they go there.

Also, I don’t think that the notion of wailing and gnashing of teeth is necessarily the action of the penitent. For example;

Job 16:9 He has torn me in his wrath and hated me; he has gnashed his teeth at me; my adversary sharpens his eyes against me

Psalm 37:12 The wicked plots against the righteousand gnashes his teeth at him,

Psalm 112:10 The wicked man sees it and is angry; he gnashes his teeth and melts away; the desire of the wicked will perish!

Lamentations 2:16 All your enemies rail against you; they hiss, they gnash their teeth, they cry: We have swallowed her! Ah, this is the day we longed for; now we have it; we see it!

Jesus uses the phrase eight times in Scripture to describe the actions of those in Hell. Then in Acts seven it used again to describe the attitude of the Jews before they stoned Stephen.

The point is, I think the phrase, “gnashing of teeth,” is one which denotes hatred and not penitence. That being the case, those in Hell do not repent, but further increase their guilt before God by displaying further hatred against Him.

 

[GRACE1022]

I believe that while Hell is not a place originally meant for Hell, however it is the fate of some because of the decisions they make within their own free will that they will go to Hell. Also in Luke 16:26 Jesus teaches that Abraham tells the rich man in torment in fire that, “…between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.” If one takes this teaching literally then I don’t think we could assert that anyone gets out of Hell once they go there.

Also, I don’t think that the notion of wailing and gnashing of teeth is necessarily the action of the penitent. For example;

Job 16:9 He has torn me in his wrath and hated me; he has gnashed his teeth at me; my adversary sharpens his eyes against me

Psalm 37:12 The wicked plots against the righteousand gnashes his teeth at him,

Psalm 112:10 The wicked man sees it and is angry; he gnashes his teeth and melts away; the desire of the wicked will perish!

Lamentations 2:16 All your enemies rail against you; they hiss, they gnash their teeth, they cry: We have swallowed her! Ah, this is the day we longed for; now we have it; we see it!

Jesus uses the phrase eight times in Scripture to describe the actions of those in Hell. Then in Acts seven it used again to describe the attitude of the Jews before they stoned Stephen.

The point is, I think the phrase, “gnashing of teeth,” is one which denotes hatred and not penitence. That being the case, those in Hell do not repent, but further increase their guilt before God by displaying further hatred against Him.

What is your opinion on removal from hell once someone is
there, do you believe it to be possible?

GRACE

 

[GRACE1022]

To answer this question is somewhat impossible for us because, God is also infinite and with all our minds put together we are still finite. We may think this answer to be simple but just like little kids when our mommy’s and daddy’s disciplined us we thought they were mean. We couldn’t comprehend it then as we cant fully understand this now. If it is his will it just is. God is all good let his will be done.

His will be done not ours answers it in a
quick complete sense!

GRACE:thumbsup:

 

[bogeydogg]

What is your opinion on removal from hell once someone is
there, do you believe it to be possible?

GRACE

Actually… no.

And it is not because I think God’s sense of judgment overrules His sense of mercy. I do believe that it is because of God’s holiness that Hell exists because the Bible make sit abundantly clear that God will have nothing unclean near Himself. This is why I do believe in the possibility of Purgatory by the way because even if I have lived a life without mortal sin, or at least without unrepented mortal sin, I still find it easy to believe that my actual sins which I have committed in my life would still require purging before I could enter in before my God. As I heard Patrick madrid put it once, “why would I want to stand before my God knowing that I am unworthy to be there?” When viewed that way, purgatory is blessing and not a curse.

However, if we accept Jesus’ teaching, then I think the souls in Hell who are in Hell because they are, Romans 1 “… haters of God…”, then Jesus teaching concerning the gnashing of teeth would seem to indicate to me that those who are in torment because they hate God would further their crimes against God by hating Him ever the more. So no, I don’t think people are released from Hell.

However, I also am not sure about the fire and brimstone. As I heard one commentator put it, and I’m paraphrasing, even if the images of fire and brimstone are symbols meant to portray the very reality of Hell itself and not literal assertions, the very nature of a symbol is that the symbol itself is always of a lesser degree than the thing being symbolized. If that is so, then Hell may not be a place of eternal burning, but even so it is worse than a place of eternal burning and is certainly not a place I want to go.