Can people choose to be spriritual and live a loving life?

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PRmerger said:
God wants us to be holy. Happiness ensues after holiness and conforming ourselves to the moral law. No one is happy being in sin. (Of course, I don’t know if this guy was sinning or not. Just sayin’…)

This is quite interesting. I hope you will be honest with me here–and I have no reason to think you wouldn’t be, of course.

You can propose that he has NOT created a god in his image.

Would you have given me the same freedom to propose that he HAD created a god in his image? Or would you have objected to my proposal on the grounds that I was judging?

My feeling is that you would have objected. But, I dunno. Maybe you wouldn’t have.

But I hope you understand my bemusement. You can declare Someone is Not-X. But if I were to say: This Someone is X, I wouldn’t have that same freedom?
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I think you’re confused: I support your freedom to say whatever you wish. I just won’t always share your opinion and agree with you. At the end of the day, you will have your values and beliefs and so will I. But maybe we might come to understand each other a bit more afterwards 🙂
 
PRmerger said:
Yep. Exactly. Squirmed. Christianity sometimes makes you squirm.
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And, I want to add that if your faith has not made you squirm, then you’ve created an image of god that is based on what’s pleasing to you.
 
Rence said:
But I thought only his closest disciples and apostles were at the last supper, and I don’t remember anyone leaving except Judas.
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John 6 is not about the Last Supper, Rence. It’s called the Bread of Life discourse.
 
PRmerger said:
If you don’t assent to the truths of the Catholic Church, then how do you know what God has revealed?

Remember, it was the Church which discerned and codified the Sacred Scriptures, so without the Church you would not know what is inspired.

It was the Catholic Church, which decided for you, that the Gospel of Thomas is not *theopneustos, *but that the Gospel of Mark is.

[SIGN1]You would not know what God has revealed without the Church.[/SIGN1]
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No, I would not know what the Church claims God has revealed.
 
PR and Rence,

I applaud your charity between eachother! You guys are just going to have to agree to disagree b/c your debate is not going anywhere.

Rence is an extremely intelligent woman with a whole lot of compassion in her soul.

PR…you are a very passionate person who is on fire for the Catholic Church and good for you!

So guys…just agree to disagree…k???

:flowers:
 
Serap said:
Ted, what religion do you follow now?
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Why do you ask? If you’re hoping I’ll name some meditative, spiritual New-Age Eastern-ish sect, sorry to disappoint. I’m simply not a member of any church.
 
TedDC said:
Why do you ask? If you’re hoping I’ll name some meditative, spiritual New-Age Eastern-ish sect, sorry to disappoint. I’m simply not a member of any church.
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your defense is not necessary with me; I assure you. 😉

I was just curious. Everyone’s journey is unique and they deserve the same amount of respect.
 
Serap said:
It’s the belief of the Catholic Church, yes.
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The question is what do “you Believe” how much more evasive can you be? Are you even Catholic or another pretender promoting many paths to heaven. Which we know through the CCC and Church Doctine is a False teaching.

Do you believe in the Catechism of the CC and Dogma and Doctrine? Or do you believe there are many path to heaven? What say YOU?

GT
 
Serap said:
PR and Rence,

I applaud your charity between eachother! You guys are just going to have to agree to disagree b/c your debate is not going anywhere.

Rence is an extremely intelligent woman with a whole lot of compassion in her soul.

PR…you are a very passionate person who is on fire for the Catholic Church and good for you!

So guys…just agree to disagree…k???

:flowers:
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We’ve read Rence’s interpretation of the Catholic Catechism on another thread. Thats another many paths to Heaven theory. Which not many Catholics agree with. 🤷

Which anyone can agree to disgree, The truth is the truth and a lie is a lie.

GT
 
GaryTaylor said:
The question is what do “you Believe” how much more evasive can you be? Are you even Catholic or another pretender promoting many paths to heaven. Which we know through the CCC and Church Doctine is a False teaching.

Do you believe in the Catechism of the CC and Dogma and Doctrine? Or do you believe there are many path to heaven? What say YOU?

GT
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LIke I’ve already said, I do not need to justify my love for the Catholic Church.
 
GaryTaylor said:
We’ve read Rence’s interpretation of the Catholic Catechism on another thread. Thats another many paths to Heaven theory. Which not many Catholics agree with. 🤷

Which anyone can agree to disgree, The truth is the truth and a lie is a lie.

GT
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Your opinion and very valid.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryTaylor
Yes and when one can’t totally agree with this, the time has come to stick to the teaching of the CC non-dogmatically till a greater understanding is acheived.

Today we have such far fetched thinking that in its divisions true evil like dictatorships, totaltarianism, communism, materialism, socialism etc are enabled to breed and grow.

Just study how Hitler was able to reach his peak in growth. And everything he did was legal by the social structure of his country.

Or the USSR with the Russian Orthodox Church before JP-II prevailed? There are so many examples its a wonder we haven’t learned the lesson yet. Its the same problems disquised with new costumes and different names

Look at Oprah Winfrey who was one of Obamas biggest backers btw. Why does she promote her own belief? Because it fits her lifestyle in comfortabilty and ego. No good reason in the over-all view of God or mankind.

God Bless, Gary

“this is very judgemental.”
No these are facts, the only one judging is you!. Fact is you disagee with the content of the CCC and would like to promote this utopia way of life which is non-existant and contrary to scripture and the Catholic Church in catechism, Doctrine and Dogma. And actuallu I was being polite when stating one wshoulc stick to the teach non-dogmatically untill a greater understanding is reached.

Do you really believe Oprah is equal to Jeus Christ?

So what exactly is judgemental the Truth? Or the fact you don’t agree that without the Catholic Church there is NO SALVATION?

God Bless, Gary
 
GaryTaylor said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryTaylor
Yes and when one can’t totally agree with this, the time has come to stick to the teaching of the CC non-dogmatically till a greater understanding is acheived.

Today we have such far fetched thinking that in its divisions true evil like dictatorships, totaltarianism, communism, materialism, socialism etc are enabled to breed and grow.

Just study how Hitler was able to reach his peak in growth. And everything he did was legal by the social structure of his country.

Or the USSR with the Russian Orthodox Church before JP-II prevailed? There are so many examples its a wonder we haven’t learned the lesson yet. Its the same problems disquised with new costumes and different names

Look at Oprah Winfrey who was one of Obamas biggest backers btw. Why does she promote her own belief? Because it fits her lifestyle in comfortabilty and ego. No good reason in the over-all view of God or mankind.

God Bless, Gary

“this is very judgemental.”
No these aree facts, the only one judging is you!. Fact is you disagee with the content of the CCC and would like to promote this utopia way of life is non-existant and contrary to scripture.

Do really believe Oprah is equal to Jeus Christ?

So what exactly is judgemental the Truth? Or the fact you don’t agree that without the Catholic Church there is NO SALVATION?

God Bless, Gary
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Walk around; hold your head high and feel really wonderful about yourself.
 
Serap said:
Walk around; hold your head high and feel really wonderful about yourself.
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DO you believe their is NO Salvation ouside the Catholic Church? Thats my question to YOU!

God Bless, Gary
 
Serap said:
No I don’t. I believe that only God knows who receives salvation.
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But would God put us in this world, telling us, “Get to heaven” but no map on how to get there?

As Catholics we have a map, and a GPS on how to get there.

Let’s look at the CCC here:
“Outside the Church there is no salvation”
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846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
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Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336
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847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
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Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
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848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338
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Mission - a requirement of the Church’s catholicity
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and here:
Faith
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2087 Our moral life has its source in faith in God who reveals his love to us. St. Paul speaks of the "obedience of faith"9 as our first obligation. He shows that “ignorance of God” is the principle and explanation of all moral deviations.10 Our duty toward God is to believe in him and to bear witness to him.
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2088 The first commandment requires us to nourish and protect our faith with prudence and vigilance, and to reject everything that is opposed to it. There are various ways of sinning against faith:
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Voluntary doubt about the faith disregards or refuses to hold as true what God has revealed and the Church proposes for belief. Involuntary doubt refers to hesitation in believing, difficulty in overcoming objections connected with the faith, or also anxiety aroused by its obscurity. If deliberately cultivated doubt can lead to spiritual blindness.
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2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. "Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him."11
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