Can Ron Paul win?

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Paul does not just attribute to that but also to the fact that we’ve been meddling in their internal affairs for the past 60 years.
You’re avoiding the question.

We meddled in whose affairs, the Sauds? Egypts? al Qaeda was founded by a Saudi and an Egyptian, and based on an Egyptian Islamist group (the Muslim Brotherhood) whose boogeyman (Nasser) we did not support.

Lets say we have no Saudi airbase (we don’t anymore), no troops in Afghanistan or Iraq, foreign aid is cut to Israel (along with to the PA).

Do you think al Qaeda will play nice? What’s our response when a fatwa is issued because we allow unsavory depictions of Muhammed, allow pastors to burn a Koran, or because we do business with the Sauds?
 
Yes he can win, especially if people start voting for a qualified candidate - instead of merely trying to vote against Obama.

He is the only candidate with integrity. And there’s no debate about that.

Pax,
OA
Great to see Catholic supporting a man of intigrity:thumbsup:👍
 
Yes he can win, especially if people start voting for a qualified candidate - instead of merely trying to vote against Obama.

He is the only candidate with integrity. And there’s no debate about that.

Pax,
OA
He consistently puts pork in bills to aid those who contribute to him. Bills that are sure to pass (like budget bills) Then votes against them so he can say he has never voted for pork. That’s integrity? :cool:
 
He consistently puts pork in bills to aid those who contribute to him. Bills that are sure to pass (like budget bills) Then votes against them so he can say he has never voted for pork. That’s integrity? :cool:
The money is going to be spent anyway, why should the taxpayers he represents contribute and get nothing in return? Why let it go to someone else?
 
You’re avoiding the question.

We meddled in whose affairs, the Sauds? Egypts? al Qaeda was founded by a Saudi and an Egyptian, and based on an Egyptian Islamist group (the Muslim Brotherhood) whose boogeyman (Nasser) we did not support.

Lets say we have no Saudi airbase (we don’t anymore), no troops in Afghanistan or Iraq, foreign aid is cut to Israel (along with to the PA).

Do you think al Qaeda will play nice? What’s our response when a fatwa is issued because we allow unsavory depictions of Muhammed, allow pastors to burn a Koran, or because we do business with the Sauds?
I don’t think we should change our ways at all, I just think that we should limit our role in their affairs to the point that we buy and purchase from countries who have a product we need and are willing to sell it at the best price. I think messing around in the affairs of any country is like messing around with an electrical outlet.

If Hussein was about to take over the oil in Saudi then the Saudis should have been spending that money we have been paying the for their oil to protect their own interests. If its a vital interest to the US then we wait till Hussein crosses that border and then we might have to lend Saudi a hand. But it should be kept to a minimum.

We have enough problems on our own southern border, it’s time to pull back and take care of our country and let others worry about their own.
 
I don’t think we should change our ways at all, I just think that we should limit our role in their affairs to the point that we buy and purchase from countries who have a product we need and are willing to sell it at the best price. I think messing around in the affairs of any country is like messing around with an electrical outlet.

If Hussein was about to take over the oil in Saudi then the Saudis should have been spending that money we have been paying the for their oil to protect their own interests. If its a vital interest to the US then we wait till Hussein crosses that border and then we might have to lend Saudi a hand. But it should be kept to a minimum.

We have enough problems on our own southern border, it’s time to pull back and take care of our country and let others worry about their own.
Okay, and Paul’s foriegn policy being impletemented…

What’s our response when a fatwa is issued because we allow unsavory depictions of Muhammed, allow pastors to burn a Koran, or because we do business with the Sauds? Al Qaeda abhors any semblance of secularity in Muslim countries, including the Sauds. If we are seen as “supporting” the “not Islamic enough by al Qaeda’s standards” Sauds, or any other moderate Muslim country (Jordan, UAE, Bahrain) through our trade, what do we do then? What do we do about the freedoms in this country that are contrary to Islamist views (see Sayyid Qutb)?
 
Okay, and Paul’s foriegn policy being impletemented…

What’s our response when a fatwa is issued because we allow unsavory depictions of Muhammed, allow pastors to burn a Koran, or because we do business with the Sauds? Al Qaeda abhors any semblance of secularity in Muslim countries, including the Sauds. If we are seen as “supporting” the “not Islamic enough by al Qaeda’s standards” Sauds, or any other moderate Muslim country (Jordan, UAE, Bahrain) through our trade, what do we do then? What do we do about the freedoms in this country that are contrary to Islamist views (see Sayyid Qutb)?
I think it’s only wise to discourage burning the Koran, just as it would be wise to discourage burning the Bible.

We provide then with intel and direction to defend their borders and try use the wads of cash they are making off of us to protect themselves and that’s it.
 
A Thought for the last week of Advent
“Mary’s prayer is revealed to us at the dawning of the fullness of time.
Before the incarnation of the Son of God, and before the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, her prayer cooperates in a unique way with the Father’s plan of loving kindness: at the Annunciation, for Christ’s conception; at Pentecost; for the formation of the Church, his Body.
In the faith of his humble handmaid, the Gift of God found the acceptance he had awaited from the beginning of time.
She whom the Almighty made ‘full of grace’ responds by offering her whole being: ‘Behold I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be [done] to me according to your word.’ ‘Fiat’: this is Christian prayer: to be wholly God’s because he is wholly ours”
Peace and Good will, Carlan
 
Can Ron Paul win - in the general election against the Obama campaign machine - no.

Ron Paul has way to much history and way to many official quotes and statements to not use them against him.

One simple quote he made after the LA riots would sink most campaigns:

…Order was only restored in L.A. when it came time for the blacks to pick up their welfare checks three days after rioting began.

reason.com/blog/2008/01/11/old-news-rehashed-for-over-a-d#commentcontainer
 
I think it’s only wise to discourage burning the Koran, just as it would be wise to discourage burning the Bible.
How do we “discourage” this, from a “libertarian” (small “l”) point of view, and within the confines of our Constitution?

A new federal law banning Koran burning? Make it a felony to show Muhammed on South Park, or in an newspaper editorial cartoon?

What?

Even if we take out this portion, we are still “not Islamic enough” for al Qaeda. We allow women to drive. Our laws aren’t based on Sharia.

If you read the foundation of the Muslim Brotherhood and al Qaeda, Sayyid Qutb’s Milestones, you will get an idea of why we are hated, and it isn’t just because we’re viewed as being “imperialists”.

In bin Laden’s own words:
(Q2) As for the second question that we want to answer: What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?
(1) The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam…
(i) You are the nation who, rather than ruling by the Shariah of Allah in its Constitution and Laws, choose to invent your own laws as you will and desire. You separate religion from your policies, contradicting the pure nature which affirms Absolute Authority to the Lord and your Creator. You flee from the embarrassing question posed to you: How is it possible for Allah the Almighty to create His creation, grant them power over all the creatures and land, grant them all the amenities of life, and then deny them that which they are most in need of: knowledge of the laws which govern their lives?
guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver
bbarrick:
We provide then with intel and direction to defend their borders and try use the wads of cash they are making off of us to protect themselves and that’s it.
In the meantime, al Qaeda attacks Saudi Oil installations, and kills civillian oil contractors (many of them foriegn)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/29_May_2004_Al-Khobar_massacres

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Saturday_(2004

And attacks foriegn military who attempts to train the Sauds (ours, and others attempts to help them “protect themselves” as you point out).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riyadh_Compound_Bombings

What you don’t realize is that al Qaeda and other Islamist organizations are at war with what they consider “moderate” Muslim regimes as much as they are at war with us. We are a target just by buying Saudi oil.

To me, Paul’s weak, battered-wife weltanschauung (we must have done SOMETHING to deserve getting hit! We brought it on ourselves! We’ll do our best not to provoke anyone, anymore! ) is missing the forest for the trees, and puts us down the inevitable slippery slope of continual appeasement.

I agree with even some of Paul’s ideas regarding scaling back our current bases (little chance of Soviet armor coming through the Fulda Gap), but I kinda like the idea of a carrier strike group being able to refuel in Yemen.

But the whole “they will love us if we love them” schtick to me is shortsighted at best, and at worst, dangerous. It also demonstrates an embarrassing lack of understanding of the danger radical Islam poses to Western civilization. We already have one president who suffers from such delusion; we certainly don’t need another.
 
The money is going to be spent anyway, why should the taxpayers he represents contribute and get nothing in return? Why let it go to someone else?
Integrity: doing what is right, no matter what other people do.

The man is claiming to be rightous on this issue while participating with everyone else in pork barrel spending. That isn’t high integrity. That’s being a typical politician
 
Integrity: doing what is right, no matter what other people do.

The man is claiming to be rightous on this issue while participating with everyone else in pork barrel spending. That isn’t high integrity. That’s being a typical politician
I agree with you; I am a RP supporter and I find this troublesome. There are a handful of other issues I disagree with him on as well. I still strongly support him but will never pretend he is perfect.
 
I was watching some panel show yesterday afternoon on Fox News where Ron Paul was brought up and then ensued a 5 minute session where eveyone on the panel started ripping on him in the most absurd ways.

One thing that disgusts me every time I hear it is the equation that if you don’t support Israel you hate the Jews, yes one of those morons in fact said that Ron Paul hates Jews because of his stance towards Israel. The NATION STATE of Israel, the one that uses religious iconography on its flags and military vehicles. It is a governmental entity, you would think that Americans would appreciate the seperation of Church and State.

Anyway I just throught its amazing that since Ron Paul has been going up in the polls while the GOP establishment candidates have been going down, the standard bearer of GOP propaganda is having its talking heads throw a collective hissy. It shows that the establishment is scared, it shows that they are genuinely concerned that the status quo MAY very well be challenged in a way they cannot control.

Yes Ron Paul is a Republican so he can get elected, he has stated that very clearly several times and it is well documented. You can call him a RINO but if that implies some negative connotation then I’ll be more than happy to accept such a label because I don’t care for whatever a “true Republican” under that standard would be. The last time we had a candidate for President like Ron Paul was in 1964 and his name was Barry Goldwater. That guy who inspired and befriended Ronald Reagan, that guy who the current GOP establishment has lionized but not truly followed.

The GOP Establishment (and Democrat Party, ie Two-Party status quo) has a LONG documented history of providing nothing but lip service yet so many people want to lash out at Ron Paul over ticky tacky details.
 
…The GOP Establishment (and Democrat Party, ie Two-Party status quo) has a LONG documented history of providing nothing but lip service yet so many people want to lash out at Ron Paul over ticky tacky details.
I don’t know, I laid out some very serious concerns (that have so far gone unaddressed) regarding Paul’s foriegn policy views, and views on 9/11.

I’m not sure I would label them “ticky tacky”, but if you do, please address them.

BTW, I’m a former neighbor (lived in Bethalto). Welcome!
 
Robert taft also proposed his form of military isolationism with turn of the century technology.

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: There is a gigantic fallacy of the excluded middle between Paul’s military isolationism (and yes, it IS military isolationism, regardless of his free trade ideals) and Bush’s military adventurism. See “Reagan Doctrine”.

And no, bbarrick8383, Libertarians are not “what the Republican party would be if they didn’t pander to be popular.”

How popular is being pro-life? You’re painted as being some type of doctor-assasinating nut job. How popular is supporting the sanctity of marriage? You’re painted as a civil-rights denying nazi, or modern-day Klansman.
Just ask Rick Santorum how popular he has become for advocating traditional Catholic morality on sexuality.
 
I don’t know, I laid out some very serious concerns (that have so far gone unaddressed) regarding Paul’s foriegn policy views, and views on 9/11.

I’m not sure I would label them “ticky tacky”, but if you do, please address them.

BTW, I’m a former neighbor (lived in Bethalto). Welcome!
Hello there, I’m actually living in Springfield, IL now but its good to see another CAF-er from the area.

Anyway, I can go round and round with anyone over politics and specific issues but to save time and headaches that usually stem from heated internet discussions I’ll just defer to a previous statement: forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8408906&postcount=156
I think there are so many people out there that are trying to find the “perfect” politician and overlooking the fact that (like our clergy) they are just as human, just as flawed, and just as likely to disappoint you as anyone else. I support Ron Paul because his political entity is that which most closely resembles what I want to see out of a politician and his pro-life stance is the most commensurate with my Catholic beliefs. The first quote above was a response to a person who seemed to want to knitpick over what they saw as a less than “perfect” politician, behavior such as this leads to apathy because you’re only setting yourself up to be disappointed.

And I don’t play into the Republican-Democrat, Left-Right, liberal-conservative, etc paradigms. I know plenty on both sides who have played all sides at one time or another, I have a good friend who is a State Senator in Illinois who happens to be a Democrat and a good friend of Barack Obama. He is one of the most staunch Catholics I know and puts his faith in front of his office, even if it costs him politically. Don’t decide your political ideals based on labels or else you’re no better than those who opposed Jesus in his time.

Food for thought on Ron Paul, THE ONLY TRUE Pro-Life Candidate: youtube.com/watch?v=fqZF8kspzfw
Yes I am one of those “single issue voters” above all else because in my fairest estimation I don’t think any president can accomplish a whole lot beyond one single issue that will end up being their legacy. With Obama it will be Obamacare, which Shrub Jr. it was military adventurism (GWOT, Iraq, et all), with Clinton it was the post-Cold War economy, with Bush Sr. it was Gulf War, with Reagan it was bring down Soviet Union, etc, etc, etc.

Ron Paul’s candidacy is the best chance we’ll have to see someone who is fervantly pro-life and would pull no punches in making abortion illegal. If he does that and that only in his four years I would be satisfied with having voted for him. As for ANY of the other candidates and the incumbent, I have zero hope that they will do anything positive but rather an expectation that they would do NOTHING other than further lead this country further down the path to its undoing.
 
Hello there, I’m actually living in Springfield, IL now but its good to see another CAF-er from the area.

Anyway, I can go round and round with anyone over politics and specific issues but to save time and headaches that usually stem from heated internet discussions I’ll just defer to a previous statement: forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8408906&postcount=156

Yes I am one of those “single issue voters” above all else because in my fairest estimation I don’t think any president can accomplish a whole lot beyond one single issue that will end up being their legacy. With Obama it will be Obamacare, which Shrub Jr. it was military adventurism (GWOT, Iraq, et all), with Clinton it was the post-Cold War economy, with Bush Sr. it was Gulf War, with Reagan it was bring down Soviet Union, etc, etc, etc.

Ron Paul’s candidacy is the best chance we’ll have to see someone who is fervantly pro-life and would pull no punches in making abortion illegal. If he does that and that only in his four years I would be satisfied with having voted for him. As for ANY of the other candidates and the incumbent, I have zero hope that they will do anything positive but rather an expectation that they would do NOTHING other than further lead this country further down the path to its undoing.
Thank you for the response. Paul does have a solid pro-life base, which is why I will vote for him, should he win the nomination.

In that regard, I believe any of the nominees would be a vast improvement over the current President.

God bless!
 
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