Can someone who rejects the Gospel be saved?

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No. Them is everyone but the saved 8… Them is the rest of the whole world.
So are you saying that the whole rest of the world at that time then heard the gospel, received it and was saved or just those who possibly repented to God before dying from the flood and so had gone to Abraham’s bosom?
 
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So are you saying that the whole rest of the world at that time then heard the gospel, received it and was saved or just those who possibly repented to God before dying from the flood and so had gone to Abraham’s bosom?
There’s Nothing in the OT or NT suggesting or implying that:

Jesus’ Gospel was taught to those in the Pre-Flood Days (aka It was not)

Which in turn precludes any possible repentance with regard TO the Gospel…

Those (the entire world of People - barring Noah and the 7 with Noah) who died during the Flood,
were sent to “Abraham’s Bosom” - never heard Jesus’ Gospel

Which is why when Jesus went to all those (again, not Noah and company) in Abraham’s Bosom,
He gave them the opportunity to Hear His Gospel -

We might surmise - that gave everyone there - the opportunity to Repent …

PRE - FLOOD

… So God said to Noah, “I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth. 14 So make yourself an ark of cypress wood

The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than fifteen cubits. 21 Every living thing that moved on land perished—birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark. (Total of 8 persons)

Post Crucifixion

He Jesus - was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water

For this is the reason the Gospel was Preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.

JESUS - in Answer to those who inquired re: His Return.

JESUS says: 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

Apostles Creed: Abridged:

I believe in God,
the Father Almighty,
Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died and was buried;

He descended into hell;
on the third day He rose again from the dead;


He ascended into heaven,
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
from there He will come to judge the living and the dead.
 
There’s Nothing in the OT or NT suggesting or implying that:

Jesus’ Gospel was taught to those in the Pre-Flood Days (aka It was not)

Which in turn precludes any possible repentance with regard TO the Gospel…

Those (the entire world of People - barring Noah and the 7 with Noah) who died during the Flood,
were sent to “Abraham’s Bosom” - never heard Jesus’ Gospel

Which is why when Jesus went to all those (again, not Noah and company) in Abraham’s Bosom,
He gave them the opportunity to Hear His Gospel -

We might surmise that gave everyone the opportunity to Repent …
So, my next question would be is this something you have read from the Church Fathers or Church teaching? I have never heard this before, unless you are NOT indicating that ALL were saved.

I appreciate the Bible verses. I have read them and I am familiar with them but as a Catholic I don’t try to interpret Scripture on my own and I am not familiar with this interpretation.

The reason I like the Haydock Bible commentary is Father Haydock used the teachings of the patristic fathers for his commentary.

St. Robert Belleramine says: The spirit of Christ went to release the souls of the righteous who repented before the flood and had been kept in Limbo, the place between heaven and hell where the souls of the Old Testament saints were kept

St. Augustine: The preexistent Christ proclaimed salvation through Noah to the people who lived before the flood (Epistolae 164).

So, I don’t see where there is any evidence, even in the Scripture verses you quoted, that everyone who perished in the flood went to Abraham’s bosom and then saved when Christ descended there. I think that is reading more into those verses than what is there. I am not saying it isn’t a possibility. I just haven’t seen any teaching indicating that.

The Catechism states: 633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell” - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.480 Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into “Abraham’s bosom”:481 "It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham’s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell."482 Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him

and

CCC 637 In his human soul united to his divine person, the dead Christ went down to the realm of the dead. He opened heaven’s gates for the just who had gone before him.

In all charity, I just don’t see any indication that all who perished in the flood were saved.

God bless
 
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So, my next question would be is this something you have read from the Church Fathers or Church teaching? I have never heard this before,
I would never ever attempt to interpret Scriptures on my own…

Both Scriptures and the Church’s Magisterium Teach
  • that The Holy Spirit IS The Interpreter of Scriptures…
The Magisterium Teaches that IT is ‘servant to Scriptures’

Part of Church Liturgy presents St. Jerome’s.

“Ignorance of Scriptures is Ignorance of Christ”

As does the CCC

133 The Church "forcefully and specifically exhorts all the Christian faithful. . . to learn the surpassing knowledge of Jesus Christ, by frequent reading of the divine Scriptures. Ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ.112
 
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Both Scriptures and the Church’s Magisterium Teach
  • that The Holy Spirit IS The Interpreter of Scriptures…
The Magisterium Teaches that IT is ‘servant to Scriptures’

Part of Church Liturgy presents St. Jerome’s.

“ Ignorance of Scriptures is Ignorance of Christ ”

As does the CCC

133 The Church "forcefully and specifically exhorts all the Christian faithful. . . to learn the surpassing knowledge of Jesus Christ, by frequent reading of the divine Scriptures. Ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ.112
Yes completely agree.
 
Yes completely agree.
Yes, Sister…

God’s Holy Spirit can indeed actually inspire individuals re: Scriptures

Thing is: It can never be, e.g, New Revelation.

Yes it can bring, e.g., some Understanding to existing Revelation
  • which in turn - should be presented to the Congregation
_
 
I like it!

And I think any (potential) Christian can see a correct understanding of various Scriptures. We should not think that the Spirit doesnt help us understand His Word! That is a terrible inferiority complex, I believe. Yet, I also would never impose an interpretation on others, unless it was in complete harmony with Church Teaching.

I am having trouble (sometimes) knowing where you’re coming from, or what your position is at times in your posts.

You entered this thread, seemingly saying “yes, someone can reject the Gospel, and yet still be saved.” But I also wasnt sure that was what you were trying to convey.
 
Yes, Sister…

God’s Holy Spirit can indeed actually inspire individuals re: Scriptures

Thing is: It can never be, e.g, New Revelation.

Yes it can bring, e.g., some Understanding to existing Revelation
Agree. 🙂 I love studying Scripture. Have for many years. What I like best since reverting back to the Catholic church about 12 years ago, is now I am studying how God revealed Scripture and it’s meaning to the Church.

I have come to realize how important it is to read, study and understand Scripture under the guidance of the Church.
 
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Thank you to those that hold a small hope that I may still have salvation though I think most of you will hold that I’m doomed.

When I began losing my faith in God and desperately trying to hold on to it, I went through a period of assuming I was trying to hold on to the wrong God and began my investigation of Christianity. But, I was raised as an Orthodox Jew and no matter how hard I prayed and tried, I could not accept that a man was God. Our childhood indoctrination’s run deep. I do know that some Jews have done it but the numbers are quite small. Other Christians becoming Catholic have much smaller hurdles than a Jew.

I’ve read the Gospels, I’ve studied them, read commentary and prayed very deeply and for a long time over them. I could envision God raising up a man to be specially blessed. I could, perhaps, even imagine God raising a man from the dead but I am completely unable to believe that a man was God or even became God. I just can not make myself believe it.

If, when I die, Jesus appears to me and shows me how wrong I was, then all I can do at that point is apologize and admit I was wrong. If He knows my heart then He knows how I tried and failed. What else could I say? I assume I’ll spend eternity in Hell thinking about it and trying to figure out why I just can’t believe.
 
I wish I could talk to you in person.

What matters, is not if others have hope in your salvation, but that you have hope.

He gives it to you. Just accept it. And thank Him.

That hope, no one can take away. He died to give it to you.

He did not become God, but God descended to Mary, to have dominion over our own flesh. Our own weakness. Our own sin.

Thank you for sharing. I will pray that He gives you a sign of hope. And one that you will know it is from above. I hope with all my heart my friend.
 
Thank you. Until then, I seek and still don’t find. I have accepted it long ago and I am at peace with it. BUT… I never say never! ☺️
 
Thank you to those that hold a small hope that I may still have salvation though I think most of you will hold that I’m doomed.
You can’t be doomed, you are still alive and God is still working in your life just as He is all of us. I will pray for you also.

I did notice one thing you said that I thought was interesting:
I’ve read the Gospels, I’ve studied them, read commentary
and then
I am completely unable to believe that a man was God or even became God. I just can not make myself believe it.
I’m sure since you read the Gospels you understand that man did not become God but God became man and walked among us, because of His great love for us.

Gospel of John:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God; 3 all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made. …

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,
 
Oh, yes. I understand the theology. I’m just at a dead end in accepting that Jesus was God in any scenario. A few of the earliest Christians did think Jesus became God at various different points in His ministry…at His baptism, at His birth, at His resurrection. These were declared heretical long ago but even in those scenarios, I can not believe God became man nor man became God. Like I said, childhood indoctrination runs deep.
 
I read the declaration Dominus Lesus.

From it:
And yet, you fail to quote the relevant section. That’s quite telling.
The other books are not Catholic Teaching, and still I doubt they support your assertions.
You draw conclusions from sources with which you are not familiar? Not surprising. 🤔
 
Do you think that a mere man could do and say the things He did and said?

I liked how the chief priests, at one point, sent temple guards to arrest Him. They returned and they asked, “Why did you not arrest Him?” They answered, “Never has a man spoke like this man.”
 
I’m not sure my thoughts would help this discussion. I’ve always tried to be a nice guest here. I know what I believe, I came here to learn what you believe. My thoughts would just be controversial and I’d probably just get flagged.

You are free to PM me if you’d like.
 
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