Can teenagers go to hell?

[friardchips]

I don’t see where what you are saying is different from what I said. I certainly didn’t “send anyone to hell”. I only said that it is possible for any person with complete mental faculties to die in a state of mortal sin. Humans have no way of knowing if any specific person will be found by God to be in a state of mortal sin, because we don’t know their individual culpability. But we do know from both Scripture and Tradition that mortal sin exists and hell exists. I don’t see that anyone in this thread condemned any specific person to hell, but only said that it is a possibility.

My argument with some posters was the emphasis they were using.

I think the defence of the other posters is unwarranted on your part.

 

[tonyrey]

Maybe he did joke. But maybe some part of him appreciated it. We can’t tell all things. Maybe he thought about your comment after you parted company with him?!

I hope so but religion is generally regarded as old-fashioned superstition in this part of the world:

The UK is among the least religious countries in the world, according to a new survey. In a global ranking of 65 countries, the UK came six places from last, with 30% of the population calling themselves religious.
While 53% of people said they were not religious, only 13% said they were a convinced atheist and the remainder did not know how to define themselves.

theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/12/uk-one-of-worlds-least-religious-countries-survey-finds

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/12/uk-one-of-worlds-least-religious-countries-survey-finds

 

[friardchips]

I hope so but religion is generally regarded as old-fashioned superstition in this part of the world:

People do find it hard to reconcile in their heads. Not realising that it is their hearts in which this takes place.

theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/12/uk-one-of-worlds-least-religious-countries-survey-finds

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/12/uk-one-of-worlds-least-religious-countries-survey-finds

Interesting figures. To remain hopeful, let’s call it a work in progress!

 

[Allegra]

I don’t know why anyone confuses “when” with “after”. It would certainly be unjust if we had no opportunity to repent regardless of when it occurs. That belief is certainly incompatible with the teaching of Jesus that God is a loving Father. And if we never know how really bad we have been how can we possibly repent?

As I said before, it’s the words “and then” that imply after.

Ex. Go to the post office, and then pick up the cleaning.

The “and then” is what was confusing in your post. Most Christians do not believe that you get a chance to repent of your sins after you have died and while you may not feel that is loving enough, that view is supported by Scripture.

We do know that at the general resurrection, we will be shown God’s plan in its entirety and we will know not only the harm some of our actions have caused, but also how our other actions unknowingly contributed to the coming of God’s kingdom. But most of us will have already been individually judged by then, so one can only assume that it isn’t necessary for a person to know the entire magnitude of their every action in order to repent for knowingly offending God. For example, I can be truly repentant for speaking disrespectfully toward the worker at Dunkin Donuts without the knowledge that he went home and yelled at his son who then failed a science test because he was up crying all night.

 

[Allegra]

My argument with some posters was the emphasis they were using.

What do you mean? Their emphasis on what?

 

[friardchips]

What do you mean? Their emphasis on what?

:frighten:

And for me to go back all over it again, fault-finding, would not be the done thing.

 

[Allegra]

:frighten:

And for me to go back all over it again, fault-finding, would not be the done thing.

Then just summarize. You don’t need to find fault with anything. Just clarify what YOU are trying to say. I don’t see where any poster was condemning any specific teen to hell. You say that your argument was against their emphasis, but I don’t understand what you mean by that. The original question was whether or not a teen could go to hell and to me that’s a pretty cut and dry question. What isn’t cut and dry is whether a specific teen should go to hell, and that’s why that decision is only made by God.

 

[friardchips]

Then just summarize. You don’t need to find fault with anything. Just clarify what YOU are trying to say. I don’t see where any poster was condemning any specific teen to hell. You say that your argument was against their emphasis, but I don’t understand what you mean by that. The original question was whether or not a teen could go to hell and to me that’s a pretty cut and dry question. What isn’t cut and dry is whether a specific teen should go to hell, and that’s why that decision is only made by God.

Please read back over the posts and you will get the emphasis.

 

[tonyrey]

As I said before, it’s the words “and then” that imply after.

Ex. Go to the post office, and then pick up the cleaning.

The “and then” is what was confusing in your post. Most Christians do not believe that you get a chance to repent of your sins after you have died and while you may not feel that is loving enough, that view is supported by Scripture.

We do know that at the general resurrection, we will be shown God’s plan in its entirety and we will know not only the harm some of our actions have caused, but also how our other actions unknowingly contributed to the coming of God’s kingdom. But most of us will have already been individually judged by then, so one can only assume that it isn’t necessary for a person to know the entire magnitude of their every action in order to repent for knowingly offending God. For example, I can be truly repentant for speaking disrespectfully toward the worker at Dunkin Donuts without the knowledge that he went home and yelled at his son who then failed a science test because he was up crying all night.

My exact words:

When we die we shall understand how much unnecessary suffering we caused and then we shall have the opportunity to repent and make amends - as far as we can - in Purgatory.

“then” doesn’t imply that “the opportunity to repent” and “make amends” occur simultaneously. In fact they cannot because repentance can be swift but making amends is a lengthy process implied in the words “as far as we can”. I could have written:

When we die we shall understand how much unnecessary suffering we caused and then we shall have the opportunity to repent and then we can make amends - as far as we can - in Purgatory.

In my opinion it seems unnecessary to have to spell out such an obvious sequence of events so laboriously. It certainly doesn’t make sense to interpret repentance as being postponed until we are in Purgatory but in any case the opportunity must occur at some stage of our existence and we must know precisely what we have done wrong before we can repent.

Usually what we consider to be our worst sins are remembered quickly but there may be more deadly ones we have forgotten because they consist in what we have failed to do. If we never realise how bad we have been how can we possibly repent? There seems no reason whatsoever why a loving Father would keep us in the dark regarding a matter which determines our **eternal **destiny. Moreover after death we are no longer in time and space. A sequence of events in any description of the spiritual life cannot be interpreted literally. If we are Christians all we know for certain are the words of St Paul:

Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end. For we know only in part, and we prophesy only in part; but when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end.

When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways.** For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known.** And now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; and the greatest of these is love.

 

[Allegra]

Usually what we consider to be our worst sins are remembered quickly but there may be more deadly ones we have forgotten because they consist in what we have failed to do. If we never realise how bad we have been how can we possibly repent? There seems no reason whatsoever why a loving Father would keep us in the dark regarding a matter which determines our **eternal **destiny. :

It may be possible that repentance may not be necessary. If someone has done something, or not done something, that is objectively sinful, but they are not aware that it was sinful or that they had even done it, then they wouldn’t be culpable for it anyway. You can’t mortally sin on accident. Maybe that’s why the Scriptures don’t say anything about a post-mortem reveal of the consequences of your actions and a second chance at repentance. It isn’t necessary, because one isn’t responsible for what they don’t know about.

 

[Allegra]

Please read back over the posts and you will get the emphasis.

I still don’t understand what you mean to be emphasized incorrectly, but I don’t usually argue with people unless I think what they said was wrong, not over or understated.

 

[opusAquinas]

Pope Francis, as pointed out in another thread, is waving a finger at “rigorists”. Better to concentrate on mercy.

You were fortunate, not superior.

I received Mercy that is all. You project. Even divine merit is all in God’s hand. I simply did not reject - all glory belongs to God.
I am grateful for what grace I have received because it is all a gift. This is why St. Paul says approach with fear and trembling. St. Paul was called by God is he superior that God admonished him and blinded him for three days. If God called and he had not listened he would have not have become St. Paul.

My point is some reject God’s call and we pray that they hear and accept.

Of course simply praying is not enough to lead to a new evangelization - that will lead to action by some to preach so they can accept Mercy.

 

[opusAquinas]

Teenagers do not go to hell. They go to Cancun for spring break. Hell is too hot. But they will probably end up in hell after going to Cancun.

I pray that all love Jesus much more than me and my own bit of love increase as well.

 

[tonyrey]

It may be possible that repentance may not be necessary. If someone has done something, or not done something, that is objectively sinful, but they are not aware that it was sinful or that they had even done it, then they wouldn’t be culpable for it anyway. You can’t mortally sin on accident. Maybe that’s why the Scriptures don’t say anything about a post-mortem reveal of the consequences of your actions and a second chance at repentance. It isn’t necessary, because one isn’t responsible for what they don’t know about.

There is no doubt about that! Ignorance is bliss - except when it is culpable but given the complexity of life it may often be extenuating.

 

[tonyrey]

Teenagers do not go to hell. They go to Cancun for spring break. Hell is too hot. But they will probably end up in hell after going to Cancun.

I pray that all love Jesus much more than me and my own bit of love increase as well.

I’m sure you underestimate yourself but that’s better than being complacent.

 

[friardchips]

I received Mercy that is all. You project. Even divine merit is all in God’s hand. I simply did not reject - all glory belongs to God.
I am grateful for what grace I have received because it is all a gift. This is why St. Paul says approach with fear and trembling. St. Paul was called by God is he superior that God admonished him and blinded him for three days. If God called and he had not listened he would have not have become St. Paul.

My point is some reject God’s call and we pray that they hear and accept.

Of course simply praying is not enough to lead to a new evangelization - that will lead to action by some to preach so they can accept Mercy.

So are you claiming that prayer is not action therefore not life-giving?

That notion rules out contemplatives then, if so?!

 

[friardchips]

I received Mercy that is all. You project. Even divine merit is all in God’s hand. I simply did not reject - all glory belongs to God.
I am grateful for what grace I have received because it is all a gift. This is why St. Paul says approach with fear and trembling. St. Paul was called by God is he superior that God admonished him and blinded him for three days. If God called and he had not listened he would have not have become St. Paul.

My point is some reject God’s call and we pray that they hear and accept.

Of course simply praying is not enough to lead to a new evangelization - that will lead to action by some to preach so they can accept Mercy.

St. Paul also said to “work out your own salvation”, he didn’t say we have to bust our brains working out the salvation of others. The most we can do is be there for people as opposed to make sweeping statements about the condition of the souls, of woefully sinful athiest teenagers. Try the well known Corinthians 13 passage about ‘love’. We can make assessments and try and help but to say we know how much a person is loved, and that goes for ourselves too, is not required of us, believe it or not.

 

[truetofaith]

How can one truly measure the errors of non-believers against believers?

Maybe it is advisable to stop measuring the sins of others completely, unless in the confessional, in the position of priest.

I’m beginning to see it’s hard to understand people’s true thoughts when reading & posting instead of live conversation. Too much time in between posts.

I wasn’t measuring “the sins of others”…what I meant was… the errors in doctrine & spiritual understanding of people, who you would think knew our basic Catholic & Christian beliefs!

 

[Sarcelle]

In a matter of speaking we already deserve hell. How?

When Adam sinned we all sinned. Deserve hell.

God promised a Savior.

Only those who accept Jesus Christ will be saved.

Why?

Because only those who accept HIS Mercy then Forgiveness for Original Sin and personal sin will be saved.

Your speculation gives way to another question. If by Adam’s sin we all sinned than even unborn babies who die before birth go to hell. They have not had the chance to be baptized. If this is the case than the poor aborted babies not only have had murder committed against them, they get to go to hell after that too.

 

[truetofaith]

Your speculation gives way to another question. If by Adam’s sin we all sinned than even unborn babies who die before birth go to hell. They have not had the chance to be baptized. If this is the case than the poor aborted babies not only have had murder committed against them, they get to go to hell after that too.

We were taught they go to Limbo…but that was eliminated…so now what