Can We All Agree We Are One

[CMatt25]

Hi Joe

I know you are attempting to get me to draw a line in the sand but hard as you continue to try, my friend, I can not in my heart say we are not united as one on the most important doctrine of all… Christ as Lord and Savior.

There may always be differences. Th Apostles had differences. Paul and Peter disagreed. But did that make Peter somehow not in unity with Paul? Or instead even while disagreeing, were they not still united in the One, central, core of faith of Christians everywhere, Christ our Lord and Savior?

Indeed. So I find it fruitless to say we are not One in Him. The central core of faith we as Christians, Catholics and nons alike agree on.

Tolerance is something I strive to live by, though being human I readily confess I sometimes fail. But it is what I sincerely believe our Lord wants us to strive towards…

Ephesians 4:2-3 Be always humble, gentle, and patient. Show your love by being tolerant with one another. Do your best to preserve the **unity **which the Spirit gives by means of the peace that binds you together. (GNT}

There would be no reason for tolerance if there were not differences. Yet there is still the Unity in Him which binds us together as One.

I can not say it better than the Apostle Paul. So I can say no more. Except Peace and Blessings to all.

 

[joe370]

Hi Joe

I know you are attempting to get me to draw a line in the sand but hard as you continue to try, my friend, I can not in my heart say we are not united as one on the most important doctrine of all… Christ as Lord and Savior.

There may always be differences. Th Apostles had differences. Paul and Peter disagreed. But did that make Peter somehow not in unity with Paul? Or instead even while disagreeing, were they not still united in the One, central, core of faith of Christians everywhere, Christ our Lord and Savior?

Indeed. So I find it fruitless to say we are not One in Him. The central core of faith we as Christians, Catholics and nons alike agree on.

Tolerance is something I strive to live by, though being human I readily confess I sometimes fail. But it is what I sincerely believe our Lord wants us to strive towards…

Ephesians 4:2-3 Be always humble, gentle, and patient. Show your love by being tolerant with one another. Do your best to preserve the **unity **which the Spirit gives by means of the peace that binds you together. (GNT}

There would be no reason for tolerance if there were not differences. Yet there is still the Unity in Him which binds us together as One.

I can not say it better than the Apostle Paul. So I can say no more. Except Peace and Blessings to all.

Well, I gave it my best shot. I guess the short answer is: We cannot all agree that we are one, doctrinally speaking, but we can agree that we are one regarding “the most important doctrine of all… Christ as Lord and Savior.” Perhaps these doctrinal differences matter naught. I don’t believe that to be the case, but that’s just me.

Surely the Eucharistic doctrine is just as important as “the most important doctrine of all… Christ as Lord and Savior?”

Jn 6:60: “Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, ‘This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?’

Jn 6:66 “After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him.”

Matt, Jews were not allowed to drink any kind of blood, and Jesus of course knew this. This is what was so hard for them to accept. If he had only been speaking symbolically, he could easily have called them back to explain this.Why didn’t Jesus do this, if in fact He was only speaking in metaphor?

1Cor 11:29 “Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord.”

Surely, no one has to worry about worthily receiving a mere symbol? Would you at least consider this doctrine an essential doctrine?

Peace friend…

 

[Della]

Hi Joe

I know you are attempting to get me to draw a line in the sand but hard as you continue to try, my friend, I can not in my heart say we are not united as one on the most important doctrine of all… Christ as Lord and Savior.

There may always be differences. Th Apostles had differences. Paul and Peter disagreed. But did that make Peter somehow not in unity with Paul? Or instead even while disagreeing, were they not still united in the One, central, core of faith of Christians everywhere, Christ our Lord and Savior?

Indeed. So I find it fruitless to say we are not One in Him. The central core of faith we as Christians, Catholics and nons alike agree on.

Tolerance is something I strive to live by, though being human I readily confess I sometimes fail. But it is what I sincerely believe our Lord wants us to strive towards…

Ephesians 4:2-3 Be always humble, gentle, and patient. Show your love by being tolerant with one another. Do your best to preserve the **unity **which the Spirit gives by means of the peace that binds you together. (GNT}

There would be no reason for tolerance if there were not differences. Yet there is still the Unity in Him which binds us together as One.

I can not say it better than the Apostle Paul. So I can say no more. Except Peace and Blessings to all.

The Apostle Paul was not addressing people who were claiming a different gospel. He was addressing fellow “catholics” who were one in the faith and one in baptism.

We are one in baptism with some others who also claim Christ. That means they are in imperfect union with Christ’s Church. That means they don’t have Christ as he wished us to have him, but they have some of him, but on their own terms.

Most are innocent of being formal heretics, but they are material heretics. The word heretic cares a lot of baggage that it shouldn’t because of societal definitions, but it only means their theology is heterodox, not that they are “bad” people or even that they have rejected Christ.

These definitions are massively important! Look how much mainline Protestant churches have slipped into the worldly mind-set and even embraced sin as normal and all right. They all started fervently trying to live the Gospel as they wanted to have it, but the Holy Spirit wasn’t in it and they drifted away from Christ’s true teachings into the ways of the world, the flesh and the devil. No ecclesial body can long hold to the truth that decides its doctrines and dogmas based on majority vote.

When our separated brethren rejoin us we will all be one again.

 

[CMatt25]

The Apostle Paul was not addressing people who were claiming a different gospel. He was addressing fellow “catholics” who were one in the faith and one in baptism.

I agree with this Della. There was the “catholic” universal body of believers.

 

[CMatt25]

Well, I gave it my best shot.
Surely, no one has to worry about worthily receiving a mere symbol? Would you at least consider this doctrine an essential doctrine?

Peace friend…

Joe, you really did! I would probably say though for those who believe symbolically, Christ is still truly present in at least His Spirit wherever they are. And if someone doesn’t even believe that much when they receive Communion, they probably still want to be receiving worthily by remembering the Sacrifice He made for all of us at the time they receive the Communion elements used in their church.

But you did give it your best shot! Peace my brother and friend in Christ!

 

[graceandglory]

Amen! Our separated brothers and sisters believe in Jesus Christ, Our Lord and Savior yet have succumbed to various Protestant views, those of today through no fault of their own. All that is needed is love, patience, kindness, understanding and education. So that we may all be one as Jesus intended.

I want to be one, and pray with Jesus, that we may be one. (John 17) When it comes right down to it, it is the Protestant believers, yes, our “separated brethren,” who are adamantly against being one with Catholics. They are protesting the Catholic faith. Many don’t believe we are “saved,” according to their tradition.

 

[Della]

Joe, you really did! I would probably say though for those who believe symbolically, Christ is still truly present in at least His Spirit wherever they are. And if someone doesn’t even believe that much when they receive Communion, they probably still want to be receiving worthily by remembering the Sacrifice He made for all of us at the time they receive the Communion elements used in their church.

But you did give it your best shot! Peace my brother and friend in Christ!

What you describe here is called “spiritual communion”. It is only possible, however, because of the Real Presence found only in the Catholic Church (in all it’s rites) and the Orthodox Churches. Protestant churches do not have the actual body and blood, soul and divinity of Christ in their communions. Protestants are NOT receiving the grace of the sacrament, but only a spiritual benefit of a lesser kind.

There’s nothing wrong with putting as positive a spin on Protestant beliefs and practice as possible–I believe it’s beneficial to all to do so. But, you can’t deny Church teaching in order to accommodate those who reject the basic teachings Christ gave us in his Church. You can’t have it both ways.

 

[Xavierlives]

Well for at least two posts I felt pretty unified.

 

[Della]

Well for at least two posts I felt pretty unified.

We have a lot of things in common that we can rejoice in. I’d like to be able to list them, but even on so basic an issue as the full divinity/humanity of Christ I fear we’d see disagreement amongst our Protestant friends. So, until the Protestants can all agree, I don’t see how we can be reunited vis Protestants and Catholics.

 

[CMatt25]

Well for at least two posts I felt pretty unified.

Xavier, I tried. It can be difficult I think when we fail to remember we are talking about faith. Sometimes it seems to me Catholics (and others) forget this. We can I’m afraid sometimes get so firm on this or that issue that we forget it’s simply faith. But we’re unified as one in Christ. Maybe some just don’t know it yet. God bless you and peace.

 

[Della]

Xavier, I tried. It can be difficult I think when we fail to remember we are talking about faith. Sometimes it seems to me Catholics (and others) forget this. We can I’m afraid sometimes get so firm on this or that issue that we forget it’s simply faith. But we’re unified as one in Christ. Maybe some just don’t know it yet. God bless you and peace.

If only we were one in faith, Matt, if only! But we aren’t and there’s no use pretending we are.

 

[wisdomseeker]

You are so right and we have new age centers sending their people out to our churches to gently but surely pass books and ideas on to our members to usurp their faith. This really is true and we need to pray because there is an agenda of the new age…it is to destroy the Catholic church from within. Pray the rosary and grow a back bone and stand up to them for the sake of the next generation.

thank you. there are many good people out there. so what? we must guard ourselves so we dont get fulled by the nice people. the nice people show their true collars when we speak of the True Faith of the CC. then they try to use all kinds of intimadation to make feel guilty and confused. the Truth is to be heard and accepted and not to be combated as if it was something false. that is how most protestants act when we talk about the CC.

** “A Christian man is Catholic while he lives in the body; cut off, he is made a heretic; the Spirit does not follow an amputated member.”
Saint Augustine… **

 

[wisdomseeker]

Hi Joe

I know you are attempting to get me to draw a line in the sand but hard as you continue to try, my friend, I can not in my heart say we are not united as one on the most important doctrine of all… Christ as Lord and Savior.

There may always be differences. Th Apostles had differences. Paul and Peter disagreed. But did that make Peter somehow not in unity with Paul? Or instead even while disagreeing, were they not still united in the One, central, core of faith of Christians everywhere, Christ our Lord and Savior?

Indeed. So I find it fruitless to say we are not One in Him. The central core of faith we as Christians, Catholics and nons alike agree on.

Tolerance is something I strive to live by, though being human I readily confess I sometimes fail. But it is what I sincerely believe our Lord wants us to strive towards…

Ephesians 4:2-3 Be always humble, gentle, and patient. Show your love by being tolerant with one another. Do your best to preserve the **unity **which the Spirit gives by means of the peace that binds you together. (GNT}

There would be no reason for tolerance if there were not differences. Yet there is still the Unity in Him which binds us together as One.

I can not say it better than the Apostle Paul. So I can say no more. Except Peace and Blessings to all.

i hope you saw father Corapi saturday night. he did a talk on the CC. but i dont think you did. if you had, you wouldnt be saying these things here.

relativism has no place in the CC. the holy father himself is fighting relativism. apparently you dont care what the holy is doing either.

our Faith is not about hiding the Truth so we can all get along. if that was so, Jesus Himself could have saved himself from a lot of troubles.

why is important that we stick with the Truth?

the Truth is not divided among different believes. the Truth is One and it is found in one place and not many. Jesus said: a house divided, it is a house destroyed. Jesus cannot fight against Himself. So, either the CC has the Truth or protestants have the Truth. which is it? again, the Truth is not divided. Jesus cannot tell the CC one thing and tell protestants another. on of the two is a liar. and dont tell me it doesnt matter because it does. for those who want to know the Truth, it does matter.
Lies can only come from satan and not from God. so, i ask you again, which one is lying the CC or the protestants?

** “A Christian man is Catholic while he lives in the body; cut off, he is made a heretic; the Spirit does not follow an amputated member.”
Saint Augustine… **

 

[CMatt25]

there are many good people out there. so what? we must guard ourselves so we dont get fulled by the nice people. the nice people show their true collars when we speak of the True Faith of the CC. then they try to use all kinds of intimadation to make feel guilty and confused.

Wisdom, the only problem I sorta see with this, and I know some look at it as directing a person on or back onto the right path. But I know good Catholics who intimidate and make feel guilty too in the process. So it can be a double sword unfortunately. And trust me it can have the opposite effect of what is intended.

So while we may not share every “dotted i”, we do share the “crossed t”.

One faith in Christ as Lord and Savior. And in His love I just have to leave it at that. God bless!

 

[CMatt25]

which one is lying the CC or the protestants?]

Wisdom, I’m not judging either lying according to their faith.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Wisdom, the only problem I sorta see with this, and I know some look at it as directing a person on or back onto the right path. But I know good Catholics who intimidate and make feel guilty too in the process. So it can be a double sword unfortunately. And trust me it can have the opposite effect of what is intended.

So while we may not share every “dotted i”, we do share the “crossed t”.

One faith in Christ as Lord and Savior. And in His love I just have to leave it at that. God bless!

Matt,

the main issue is the Truth. it is not about us. forget us.
it is about the Truth. those who know the Truth must speak the Truth to those who dont know the Truth. it is not about double sword. it is not about intimadation.

without the True Church safeguarding the Truth throught the ages, we could not know the Truth. that is my point. it is good for Catholics to tell those who dont know the Truth where the Truth is safeguarded. Jesus gave the Church the command to go and teach the world all He commanded. He did not say: go and teach what i commanded and let them believe whatever they want to believe. so, someone is not pleasing God here. either one is being dissobedient, we know that God does not approve dissobedience. i dont want to be on the side of the dissobedient. that is why we must be firm with those who do not know the Truth. i dont mean we must be mean to them. that is not what i am saying at all. but we must convey the Truth as tought by Jesus. Jesus was not being mean when He said: go into the town and preach that what i have tought you. if they believe stay if they dont dust the sand of your sandals and leave. do you know what Jesus said after that? was Jesus being a bad person? maybe according to your standards. to me He was being Truthfull and loving. this has no changed. still the same. the CC continues to preach the Truth. to bad for those who do not believe.

** “A Christian man is Catholic while he lives in the body; cut off, he is made a heretic; the Spirit does not follow an amputated member.”
Saint Augustine… **

 

[prodigal-sun]

Actually no he was not speaking about abortion only. I’m not certain how you reach the conclusion he was not referring to faith when he said “We are one in Christ”?

Anyway in context he said, " We don’t have to agree with each other. Room is allowed for different viewpoints and perspectives on a host of issues. We believe in the freedom – and responsibility – of all of us to studiously and prayerfully reflect on scripture and come to our own conclusions. We can and should listen to and learn from each other. But we do not condemn, exclude and divide over different interpretations. The One who brings us together is far more important than whatever differences set us apart.

I do agree the CatholicChurch is fighting today more than ever. Hopefully that fight does not have the opposite effect of what may be intended, and in hindsight the fight ends up pushing folks further away. Time will tell.

To answer my question however, from some of the posts, I guess no we can’t agree that faith in Christ unites us as one.

So when someone interprets John 6 a bit differently from the Church, like say for instance, Christ was only speaking figuartively and really didn’t mean for us to actually eat his body and drink his blood. We should stop and consider that “Hey maybe this fella has something, I mean really, eating Christs actual body… how gross is that anyway”

I think maybe you might want to try to understand the meaning of authority before you try talking your fellow Catholics into giving credibility to any Tom, Dick, or Harry who wants to Interpret scripture any which way he wants!

Peace!

 

[wisdomseeker]

Wisdom, I’m not judging either lying according to their faith.

Matt,

if you knew that the CC teaches the Truth, you would know which one is lying. this is very important. we use judgement every day weather we know or not.

lies comes from satan and not from God. we should know where the lies are and where the Truth is. if the Body and Blood of Christ is important, really important, than we must know who is speaking the Truth, protestants who deny or CC who believes. one is the Truth and the other is a lie. which one do you want to believe? do you think that a lie is pleasing to God? remember, St Paul condemns those who lies.

** “A Christian man is Catholic while he lives in the body; cut off, he is made a heretic; the Spirit does not follow an amputated member.”
Saint Augustine… **

 

[CMatt25]

Matt,

the main issue is the Truth. it is not about us. forget us.
it is about the Truth. those who know the Truth must speak the Truth to those who dont know the Truth. it is not about double sword. it is not about intimadation.

without the True Church safeguarding the Truth throught the ages, we could not know the Truth. that is my point. it is good for Catholics to tell those who dont know the Truth where the Truth is safeguarded. Jesus gave the Church the command to go and teach the world all He commanded. He did not say: go and teach what i commanded and let them believe whatever they want to believe. so, someone is not pleasing God here. either one is being dissobedient, we know that God does not approve dissobedience. i dont want to be on the side of the dissobedient. that is why we must be firm with those who do not know the Truth. i dont mean we must be mean to them. that is not what i am saying at all. but we must convey the Truth as tought by Jesus. Jesus was not being mean when He said: go into the town and preach that what i have tought you. if they believe stay if they dont dust the sand of your sandals and leave. do you know what Jesus said after that? was Jesus being a bad person? maybe according to your standards. to me He was being Truthfull and loving. this has no changed. still the same. the CC continues to preach the Truth. to bad for those who do not believe.

** “A Christian man is Catholic while he lives in the body; cut off, he is made a heretic; the Spirit does not follow an amputated member.”
Saint Augustine… **

Wisdom, I’m merely saying that is your faith as you understand the truth to be. Someone else may have another understanding of the truth. That is their faith. But Christians all united in one faith in Jesus. Guess we’ll have to wait to see who has all the other details exactly defined right, if anyone. Or if some of it even really matters. God bless and peace!

 

[prodigal-sun]

Wisdom, I’m merely saying that is your faith as you understand the truth to be. Someone else may have another understanding of the truth. That is their faith. But Christians all united in one faith in Jesus. Guess we’ll have to wait to see who has all the other details exactly defined right, if anyone. Or if some of it even really matters. God bless and peace!

NO! this is wrong! We can both be wrong but we can not have 2 opposing beliefs that are truth. The Catholic Church has the full deposit of of exposed truth with regards to faith and morals. See, this is once again one of those times when either of us can say we hold the truth but we have to agree that both of us can’t. Do you not agree?
.
Peace!