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0Scarlett_nidiyilii
Guest
This, very much.
Also, there’s the issue of learning how to discuss any sensitive subject is a skill learned over time.
My own early attempts to explain my faith were extremely clumsy and cringe worthy.
Can we really expect Atheists (and non-Catholics) to come to Catholicism
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Also, there’s the issue of learning how to discuss any sensitive subject is a skill learned over time.
My own early attempts to explain my faith were extremely clumsy and cringe worthy.
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Kaninchen
Guest
Mine were in the mid-90s when groups/boards seemed to be unmoderated (could be very crazy) or moderated to within an inch of their lives (could be very boring)!
I was chatting online because, at the time, the nature of my husband’s career took him away a lot and, quite frankly, I was lonely (in the way that a Mum to two tinies can be).
Religion seemed an interesting area. Being a Jew online at the time was a real revelation but, once you learned to cope with the odd Nazi or whatever, there were a lot of good people around.
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Michaelangelo
Guest
As a scientist I have looked at the church teaching from all kinds of angles in hope to isolate obejective verifiable data from all the focus on emotions and unverifiable anecdotes. What I found was a complete mess of one fantastic story after another, totally impossible to have verified, mixed with all kinds of ancient philosophy that has absolutely no support in observations. To me this has all the hallmarks of man made mythology.
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Dan_Defender
Guest
As opposed to scientific theories that explain everything? Last time I checked there is no explanation on dark matter and dark energy. They cannot even explain why there is a supermassive black hole at the center of every galaxy. They even use the word ‘mystery’ for such things.
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Michaelangelo
Guest
No scientific theory claims to explain everything. Not even remotely.
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OurLadyofSorrows
Guest
As a scientist have you ever changed your methodology and looked at you “mono-theology data” from a novel and different way?
No scientific hypothesis has that claim.
Religion is a hypothesis firstly of faith. God did not set out to explain the science of the universe to us, God set out to explain to us simply what we need for our salvation in Scripture.
Have you read Job?
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Michaelangelo
Guest
Changing methodology is common practise in science depending on what is being studied. What is mono-theology data?
And we were talking about theories.
The church does not present a hypothesis. It claims to present the objective truth. Not even remotely the same.
Is that your hypothesis or a claim of objective truth? I do not see what I need to be saved from.
Yes.
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OurLadyofSorrows
Guest
Your data relating to your study of God
Mono = 1 theology is what you are studying in your efforts to prove or disprove scientifically that there is one God.
Before something is a theory it is a hypothesis. You have a hypothesis, either there is or is not God.
This will only become theory based on accurate and precise data that is robust in front of its peer review
The Church , in the definition of hypothesis, is a hypothesis of faith. Faith is first, everything else is second.
You have suggested a hypothesis that God did not or God did set out to explain the science of the universe to us, or what we need for our salvation.
What is your methodology going to be and what will be your resources to prove or disprove your hypothesis.
And please define your term ’ objective truth’
Will you include Job in your hypothesis that God did or did not set out to explain the science of the universe to us?
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Michaelangelo
Guest
It is bad science to look for something specific unless what is looked for is very well defined. To define that, a hypothesis has to be formulated. I have yet to see a hypothesis about god worth pursuing. But I’m open for suggestions.
I know what mono and theology means. I just had never seen that construct before (mono-theology data). Your own invention?
Which is still not what we were talking about. We were talking about scientific theories. Read our conversation again and you will see that.
Nope. The church does not present a hypothesis.
Really? When did I do that?
Until further data is presented my working hypothsis is that I don’t have anything to be saved from. Most certainly not death.
Personally I look forward to death. I’m not rushing towards it but certainly not running away from it either.
The truth against which all other claims truths are measured. The ultimate truth, according to the church anway.
An ancient poetic book, explaining the univese? Naaah!
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JerryZ
Guest
Never underestimate the Holy Spirit.
Peace!
Peace!
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vin_dedvukaj
Guest
no one is unreachable, I am living proof of that 
. I lived a very secular and borderline agnostic life doing pretty much what I pleased, sometimes I was spiritual but never lived my life with any kind of moral campus, and there were even times I mocked religion especially Catholicism which I thought was nothing more than a corrupt organization. Too make a long story short, I made a complete conversion, with the help of prayers and asking those life questions I made my way back home, I never thought I would be a devout Catholic ever, but here I am. no one is ever too far.
. I lived a very secular and borderline agnostic life doing pretty much what I pleased, sometimes I was spiritual but never lived my life with any kind of moral campus, and there were even times I mocked religion especially Catholicism which I thought was nothing more than a corrupt organization. Too make a long story short, I made a complete conversion, with the help of prayers and asking those life questions I made my way back home, I never thought I would be a devout Catholic ever, but here I am. no one is ever too far.
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OurLadyofSorrows
Guest
Surely you formulated a hypothesis before engaging in your research about church teaching from all angles.
As a scientist you cannot just look into something from all angles without a starting point, That is the very definition of a hypothesis that may or may not lead to a theory.
There you go, a hypothesis is only ever a work.
Which truth exactly is that, what is the statement of truth.
Where did you read in Job that the universe is explained, Verse or chapter
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o_mlly
Guest
Empirical science is but one limited method to obtain knowledge. The Catholic church sources her knowledge from Divine Revelation and reason. Reason and faith are never discordant.
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Genesis315
Guest
God desires all men to be saved and come to knowledge of the truth (cf. 1 Tim. 2:4). Therefore, one one way or another, He offers all the means to know the truth (who is Christ) and the grace to obey the commandments and persevere in faith and charity and be saved, regardless of their circumstances. No one will be lost, therefore, without fault on their part.
Likewise, with the foreknowledge of how the world would be in every generation, God establish His Church with the mission of seeking salvation of every single person and preaching the same truth to all.
However, God does not necessarily offer the supernatural means of salvation to all at the same time. See Christ’s parable of the worker’s in the vineyard. Some are called early in the day, some in the middle, and some late. According to His inscrutable design, God’s sends these means to different people at different times–sometimes only at the “eleventh hour.”
Of course, Christ also tells us that “many are called, but few are chosen” so, while it should greatly concern us, it should not surprise us, that many people just don’t care.
Likewise, with the foreknowledge of how the world would be in every generation, God establish His Church with the mission of seeking salvation of every single person and preaching the same truth to all.
However, God does not necessarily offer the supernatural means of salvation to all at the same time. See Christ’s parable of the worker’s in the vineyard. Some are called early in the day, some in the middle, and some late. According to His inscrutable design, God’s sends these means to different people at different times–sometimes only at the “eleventh hour.”
Of course, Christ also tells us that “many are called, but few are chosen” so, while it should greatly concern us, it should not surprise us, that many people just don’t care.
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Michaelangelo
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At first my hypothesis was that the collection of books in scripture were correct as well as church teaching.
That is correct.
For examle that scipture is the word of god or the infallibility of the magisterium.
I simply responded to what you wrote earlier:
Will you include Job in your hypothesis that God did or did not set out to explain the science of the universe to us?
And I see no such explanation in Job or would even expect such from a poetic book.
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Michaelangelo
Guest
All above are unverified claims.
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o_mlly
Guest
One cannot verify empirically the truths of revelation. One cannot demonstrate empirically or rationally that those same truths are irrational. Within their domains, the truths are coherent.
If one does have faith then empirical analysis will only fortify and never refute what is held to be true.
If one does not have faith then empirical analysis will not be of much help.
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Michaelangelo
Guest
If revelation actually happened it would have been verifiable. Anecdotes alone aren’t sufficient.
And how do you verify that?
Faith is only needed in the absence of empirical support.
Sure it will. According to scripture miracles were performed precisely to provide verification. Because without that verification people would not have had any reason to listen to Jesus. After that verification was provided people had a reason to actually listen to him and trust him about the other things he said. That is when faith comes into the picture.
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MarkRome
Guest
Aren’t you really asking whether God expects people to come to Catholicism?
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