Can we reconcile God's love with hell?

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Many of the responses here tell us that we send ourselves to hell. I don’t doubt that repeated unrepentant sins like murder, rape, mutilation would be grounds for hell ,but let’s take masturbation for example. A person maturbating should burn in hell forever? We often here God called our Father, and we are his children. A parent could punish a child temporarily but not forever and ever.

That’s why to me, the love factor plays a stronger role. Yes, Jesus died for our sins. But if that’s the case,shouldn’t all go to heaven?

I think the Catholic doctrine of purgatory makes sense in that outside of being in a state of grace , you have a chance. I have to wonder about all the ancient civilizations that knew nothing of Christ as well.
 
Many of the responses here tell us that we send ourselves to hell. I don’t doubt that repeated unrepentant sins like murder, rape, mutilation would be grounds for hell ,but let’s take masturbation for example. A person maturbating should burn in hell forever? We often here God called our Father, and we are his children. A parent could punish a child temporarily but not forever and ever.

That’s why to me, the love factor plays a stronger role. Yes, Jesus died for our sins. But if that’s the case,shouldn’t all go to heaven?

I think the Catholic doctrine of purgatory makes sense in that outside of being in a state of grace , you have a chance. I have to wonder about all the ancient civilizations that knew nothing of Christ as well.
Forget masturbation…what about eating a hot dog on a Fri. in Lent & not repenting?

Eternal Damnation! :eek:
 
Many of the responses here tell us that we send ourselves to hell. I don’t doubt that repeated unrepentant sins like murder, rape, mutilation would be grounds for hell ,but let’s take masturbation for example. A person maturbating should burn in hell forever? We often here God called our Father, and we are his children. A parent could punish a child temporarily but not forever and ever.

That’s why to me, the love factor plays a stronger role. Yes, Jesus died for our sins. But if that’s the case,shouldn’t all go to heaven?

I think the Catholic doctrine of purgatory makes sense in that outside of being in a state of grace , you have a chance. I have to wonder about all the ancient civilizations that knew nothing of Christ as well.
We don’t all go to heaven because some people simply don’t want to go to heaven. God can’t make us love him, because that wouldn’t be real love. It’s a matter of the heart. Sin as a fruit of a godless, unrepentant life (you don’t have to be Catholic to know right from wrong) is different to the sins someone struggles with (and repents) as they draw closer to God.

Re. your masturbation example. I think we have to remember our place when we start assigning people places in the afterlife but, If I’m not mistaken, mortal sin has to be committed with free will and full knowledge. I would say that we often do not fully have free will over some of our sexual sins. As for ancient civilisations, Abraham’s was found righteous before he knew of Christ (Rom 4:3) and the lawless Gentiles can also please God (Rom 2:14).

Only God knows the heart of each sinner (all of us!) and the overwhelming witness of Scripture is that God is full of compassion and mercy.
 
If God forgives all sin if one repents, then why don’t many of his followers?

Because to people, it depends on what sin it is…Mine were too bad to be posted in Catholic forum apparently…Love the sinner, but not the sin? I doubt that very much.

I once wrote in here what i did and my comments were removed and i had a six month ban. I would much rather see the “true nature” of people who claim to “love me”.

If i am going to hell for not having confessed to a falible Priest, who, himself didn’t want me near his church and his congregation, then i will let Jesus, if He is there, to deal with me as He chooses.

I would rather confess to Our Lady than any Priest anyway…The most perfect intercessors, If i truly believed she was there too.
If your post really was deleted, then I’d lay odds that it was inappropriately graphic.
 
Then you lose…I didn’t go into detail…I just wrote what i did ,or should i say…was.

I’ll give your donation to a Catholic charity of your choice…I just corrected the part i wrote here because i should not have written it…so, sorry.
 
how can God honor a person’s free will without accepting that person’s power to reject God?

exactly how much more can God love His human creatures than by sharing with them the human condition found in this fallen world, not to mention sharing it to the point of death on a cross?

until we face God in judgment, we are free to love or reject God, over and over again in this world.

I am at a loss as to how anyone could find God to be either unloving or unmerciful.

some mention the sin that arises from being disobedient to the Church’s rules on penance such as the norm on eating meat on Fridays of lent. it is not innately sinful to eat meat at any time, but it is sinful to disobey the teachings of the RCC. this disobedience can be seriously sinful. in this instance, it is not our worldly perception of the severity of the offense that governs the discussion, it is the state of the heart of the person who willfully disobeys a norm of the Church about which they have been told obedience to the norm is a serious obligation.

what is in the heart of that person, who disobeys the Church? is it humble acceptance of Jesus Christ?

at death, we are confronted by Perfect Being, our soul is the source of both our intellects and our free wills. if our soul is in a state of non-repentance, it will shy away from God’s love. that is hell. so far as it has been revealed, there is no mechanism after death that gives us a second chance to repent of our sins. at judgment we will either be in a state of repentance or not, and that final state is the state our souls will be in for eternity.

for all others, the process of uniting with God is either completed or continues until all imperfections, impurities and objections are eliminated from our souls and they are perfectly purified. the human soul cannot be united with God until it is pure and without blemish.

this is an essential element of our faith and it is why followers of Christ pray for graces such as final repentance at the moments of our deaths. we may well suffer our greatest temptation to reject God at the last instance before our deaths and as faithful catholics we want to be as well armed as possible against the devil. for that reason, our efforts to grow in holiness must continue unceasingly, using all of the tools such as the sacraments, prayer, fasting and penance, and almsgiving and other works of charity that almighty God has provided to us.

as for those who may appear to us to be either unrepentant or in the state of mortal sin at the point of their deaths, God will judge perfectly how each of us have lived our lives. all of the exceptions and apparent inequities we identify are handled perfectly by God and there is never any injustice in God’s judgments.

we should place our trust in God’s mercy as evidenced by the Cross of Jesus Christ and do all we have been instructed to do by His Church so as to prepare ourselves for judgment.

this idea that God could be unloving, unmerciful or unjust comes from satan and satan uses it to cast down on the teachings of Jesus Christ. if we cannot reconcile hell with God’s love, we have fallen into just another one of satan’s traps. if we cannot use our reason to accept the existence of hell, we must use our faith. any questioning of God’s love, mercy and justice comes from the devil or is the result of profound ignorance.
 
Then you lose…I didn’t go into detail…I just wrote what i did ,or should i say…was.

I’ll give your donation to a Catholic charity of your choice…I just corrected the part i wrote here because i should not have written it…so, sorry.
What do you mean what you were… that doesn’t… The moderators only hand out long suspensions for big things. Short of knowing what you wrote it’s impossible to tell if you’re right or not.

Either way, you should use your interactions with a handful of people as the basis for massive decisions about your life. As for your comments about “the priest not wanting you around,” about the only way that’d be true is if:

#1 You did something terrible to the Church or another member and acted completely unrepentant.

or

#2: The priest was wrong in sending you away.

Again, without knowing the circumstances, it’s impossible to know who was in the right. Regardless of that, this has no affect on God’s desire to see you receive repentance. Feel free to confess to Mary, but always keep in mind that Christ didn’t give his mother that ability to forgive sins, he gave it to his disciples.
 
how can God honor a person’s free will without accepting that person’s power to reject God?

exactly how much more can God love His human creatures than by sharing with them the human condition found in this fallen world, not to mention sharing it to the point of death on a cross?

until we face God in judgment at the moment of our deaths, we are free to love or reject God, over and over again in this world.

I am at a loss as to how anyone could find our Lord Jesus Christ to be either unloving or unmerciful.

some mention the sins that arises from being disobedient to the Church’s rules on penance such as the norm on eating meat on Fridays of lent. it is not innately sinful to eat meat at any time, but it is sinful to disobey the teachings of the RCC. this disobedience can be seriously sinful. in this instance, it is not our worldly perception of the severity of the offense that governs the discussion, it is the state of the heart of the person who willfully disobeys a norm of the Church about which they have been told obedience to the norm is a serious obligation.

what is in the heart of that person, who disobeys the Church? is it humble acceptance of Jesus Christ?

at death, we are confronted by Perfect Being, our soul is the source of both our intellects and our free wills. if our soul is in a state of non-repentance, it will shy away from God’s love. that is hell. so far as it has been revealed, there is no mechanism after death that gives us a second chance to repent of our sins. at judgment we will either be in a state of repentance or not, and that final state is the state our souls will be in for eternity.

for those who die with a repentant heart, the process of uniting with God is either completed or continues until all imperfections, impurities and objections are eliminated from our souls and they are perfectly purified. the human soul cannot be united with God until it is pure and without blemish.

this is an essential element of our faith and it is why followers of Christ pray for graces such as final repentance at the moments of our deaths. we may well suffer our greatest temptation to reject God at the last instance before our deaths and as faithful catholics we want to be as well armed as possible against the devil. for that reason, our efforts to grow in holiness must continue unceasingly, using all of the tools such as the sacraments, prayer, fasting and penance, and almsgiving and other works of charity that almighty God has provided to us.

as for those who may appear to us to be either unrepentant or in the state of mortal sin at the point of their deaths, God will judge perfectly how each of us have lived our lives. all of the exceptions and apparent inequities we identify are handled perfectly by God and there is never any injustice in God’s judgments.

we should place our trust in God’s mercy as evidenced by the Cross of Jesus Christ and do all we have been instructed to do by His Church so as to prepare ourselves for judgment.

this idea that God could be unloving, unmerciful or unjust comes from satan and satan uses it to cast doubt on the teachings of Jesus Christ. if we cannot reconcile hell with God’s love, we have fallen into just another one of satan’s traps. if we cannot use our reason to accept the existence of hell, we must use our faith. any questioning of God’s love, mercy and justice comes from the devil or is the result of profound ignorance and RCs cannot plead the defense of profound ignorance.

the unforgivable sin is to choose defiance over repentance.
 
how can God honor a person’s free will without accepting that person’s power to reject God?

exactly how much more can God love His human creatures than by sharing with them the human condition found in this fallen world, not to mention sharing it to the point of death on a cross?

until we face God in judgment at the moment of our deaths, we are free to love or reject God, over and over again in this world.

I am at a loss as to how anyone could find our Lord Jesus Christ to be either unloving or unmerciful.

some mention the sins that arises from being disobedient to the Church’s rules on penance such as the norm on eating meat on Fridays of lent. it is not innately sinful to eat meat at any time, but it is sinful to disobey the teachings of the RCC. this disobedience can be seriously sinful. in this instance, it is not our worldly perception of the severity of the offense that governs the discussion, it is the state of the heart of the person who willfully disobeys a norm of the Church about which they have been told obedience to the norm is a serious obligation.

what is in the heart of that person, who disobeys the Church? is it humble acceptance of Jesus Christ?

at death, we are confronted by Perfect Being, our soul is the source of both our intellects and our free wills. if our soul is in a state of non-repentance (defiance against God), it will shy away from God’s love. that is hell. so far as it has been revealed, there is no mechanism after death that gives us a second chance to repent of our sins. at judgment we will either be in a state of repentance or not, and that final state is the state our souls will be in for eternity.

for those who die with a repentant heart, the process of uniting with God is either completed or continues until all imperfections, impurities and objections are eliminated from our souls and they are perfectly purified. the human soul cannot be perfectly united with God until it is pure and without blemish in both mind and will.

this is an essential element of our faith and it is why followers of Christ pray for graces such as final repentance at the moments of our deaths. we may well suffer our greatest temptation to reject God at the last instance before our deaths and as faithful catholics we want to be as well armed as possible against the devil. for that reason, our efforts to grow in holiness must continue unceasingly, using all of the tools such as the sacraments, prayer, fasting and penance, and almsgiving and other works of charity that almighty God has provided to us.

as for those who may appear to us to be either unrepentant or in the state of mortal sin at the point of their deaths, God will judge perfectly how each of us have lived our lives. all of the exceptions and apparent inequities we identify are handled perfectly by God and there is never any injustice in God’s judgments.

we should place our trust in God’s mercy as evidenced by the Cross of Jesus Christ and do all we have been instructed to do by His Church so as to prepare ourselves for judgment.

this idea that God could be unloving, unmerciful or unjust comes from satan and satan uses it to cast doubt on the teachings of Jesus Christ. if we cannot reconcile hell with God’s love, we have fallen into just another one of satan’s traps. if we cannot use our reason to accept the existence of hell, we must use our faith. any questioning of God’s love, mercy and justice comes from the devil or is the result of profound ignorance and we RCs cannot plead the defense of profound ignorance.

the unforgivable sin is to choose defiance over repentance.
 
Forget masturbation…what about eating a hot dog on a Fri. in Lent & not repenting?

Eternal Damnation! :eek:
That’s not the same as a sin because its subject to change. Similar to the fact that at one time you could not touch the Eucharist , but now you can.
 
Forget masturbation…what about eating a hot dog on a Fri. in Lent & not repenting?

Eternal Damnation! :eek:
I think the difference is that master stood is a sin and that will not change. Eating meat is subject to change, similar to the fact that at one time the Eucharist could not be touched, but now it can be.
 
Many of the responses here tell us that we send ourselves to hell. I don’t doubt that repeated unrepentant sins like murder, rape, mutilation would be grounds for hell ,but let’s take masturbation for example. A person maturbating should burn in hell forever? We often here God called our Father, and we are his children. A parent could punish a child temporarily but not forever and ever.

That’s why to me, the love factor plays a stronger role. Yes, Jesus died for our sins. But if that’s the case,shouldn’t all go to heaven?

I think the Catholic doctrine of purgatory makes sense in that outside of being in a state of grace , you have a chance. I have to wonder about all the ancient civilizations that knew nothing of Christ as well.
A born again Christian once told me everyone will be given a chance to accept Jesus, even people in the jungles of Africa.
Like you said, though…“what about all the ancient civilizations that knew nothing of Christ”, before He was born?
 
Forget masturbation…what about eating a hot dog on a Fri. in Lent & not repenting?

Eternal Damnation! :eek:
It is because God’s immense love extends to such little details that such an action constitutes a mortal sin - provided, of course, that full knowledge etc., is present. Attached to every act of faith and obedience, including obedience to the Church’s disciplines, is a reward so great that we cannot adequately describe it. Think, then, of how ungrateful - how objectively evil - it is of us to spurn such gifts, which are not only for our own benefit, but for the benefit of our fellow human beings.

“Every degree of grace is in itself infinitely valuable, more precious than all created things in Heaven or on earth, a treasure for which we should, with the Apostle, count all things as loss, that we may gain Christ and His grace.” (Taken from ‘The Glories of Divine Grace’)
 
What do you mean what you were… that doesn’t… The moderators only hand out long suspensions for big things. Short of knowing what you wrote it’s impossible to tell if you’re right or not.

Either way, you should use your interactions with a handful of people as the basis for massive decisions about your life. As for your comments about “the priest not wanting you around,” about the only way that’d be true is if:

#1 You did something terrible to the Church or another member and acted completely unrepentant.

or

#2: The priest was wrong in sending you away.

Again, without knowing the circumstances, it’s impossible to know who was in the right. Regardless of that, this has no affect on God’s desire to see you receive repentance. Feel free to confess to Mary, but always keep in mind that Christ didn’t give his mother that ability to forgive sins, he gave it to his disciples.
I was in the wrong i guess, for calling myself out for what i was and for testing people for what i believe they are, or what they ain’t!! …Btw, i was never sentenced…I did what was considered unforgiveful in the true hearts of people…i did not go as far some have done, in regards to the actions, but still…I confessed to one of those i harmed and she, An Atheist, forgave me…I don’t think i was believed because people don’t tend to believe someone who did those things i did, unless they are already accused…Priests have been accused…good enough clue? DO THE CIRCUMSTANCES NOW CHANGE NOW THAT YOU KNOW? LOL! …By the way…just in case i am called out for laughing… that was an ironic, uneasy laugh…one with deep sorrow as well, if you can believe that:(

There is no true forgiveness, usually anyway… nor second chances…If i am to be banned, so be it, but at least i had my say…At least i found out that if there is forgiveness, it won’t come from a priest, or His …disciples…as far i have gathered so far, anyway. The churches are run by the priests and the diocese…and the the congregation have their say too…It is not God’s, it is theirs and there free will to run the churches…God simply allows for it because it is their choice…and f He is truly a good God, not His will, but again, theirs.

I tried seeing the local priest to confess…It was a big thing FOR ME to do…A big deal and still is…I rarely go out this place andin fact, i have not once been out at all…rarely out my room…I have honestly, hardly been out at all since 08…A handful of times, in my sisters bf’s car ,not more than 5 times…and all those times just after 08, not since at least 2010 have been anywhere…and not anywhere significant…I have been in psychiatric “care” due to pathetic, failed ,suicide attempts…Came close a few times though…You know? when i was unconscious, i saw nothing, felt nothing, but at the same time to me, it was blissful, being out of this world and all it’s rubbish.

Anyway, the priest was not there aparently, the person i knew through email contacted him and he said he had apparently"forgotten", forgotten when i had only contacted him the night before?.. and around at the time he asked me to be there, at the correct time…i asked for him in an office of people, who told me he was out until Mass would start… and i stressed out…worrying…i sat there in church and he took Mass. I sat there, not really knowing what to do…Afraid to go up to Him just before he did Mass, because he was with others…too shy…During Mass i tried mimicking what the others were doing, feeling like a fool and out of place…It was almost Easter 2014 and after Mass , most left, but some remained…i watched a woman who took around a processional cross to all the pictures of the Stations Of The Cross…Again, i mimicked the congregation as best i could…kneeling when they did…No really sure of myself and my purpose.

When it ended, i tried asking for him again, but i was told he had left the church area and gone elsewhere. I must add, that when i asked for him again, i was again, hesitant and felt embarrassed because i was afraid and my tears would gush out ,as they still do, when evil thoughts enter my mind…

.DO you know? I tried praying the Rosary? I have a about nine of them now…I look every day on ebay and look at Catholic items…I love their structure atheir beauty…i don’t know if that is wrong…Iknow what the main purpose of ther Rosary should be, but my bad thoughts entered whilst praying…trying to pray pathetically…They , my thoufhts told me all kinds of horrible things…evenn about Our Lady…Maybe i was not meant for this world…Since childhood, i knew or thoiught that too…You see? i did go into detail about the thoughts and especially ones that entered about Our Lady, i merely gave the (name removed by moderator)ression that they were there witohut being “graphic”

I would agree that i am also ignorant ot certain things and i am and was never a learned person.

Ater going to see the priest i went home, in a huff and a puff and vow, never to go again… walked, because i didn’t want to take public transport and be around people, where i would imagine theor scorn… Because of the yrs indoors, my legs ached fform walking there and back again…i found muscles in my legs where there was once only mush…Believe it or not, i times my duration walking there and back…and it was around 40 minutes there and 40 back…lol…i swear
 
continued…if allowed…

I emailed the priest and told him my sins and he never replied…Instead, he sent my emails to his diocese and they, in turn sent them to the authorities…who came and went…

I would again, rather have Our Lady as my confessor than of of those your so-called disciples…He gave that ability to forgive , to His disciples, WHO IN TURN DO NOT FORGIVE…lol…or ,should i add, do not truly forgive and if they do, only do it to go through the paces and to think they are pleasing Jesus, to be i his good books ,but not truly forgiving…As St.Louis De Montfort would say “Through Her, to him”…RIGHT?..

One more thing…you can again dismiss my claims, not believe me, but this is how i feel, whether or not i am right , or , if you consider me a nut.

That is all, and i will end with this…I am sorry for the things i did…but the thoughts that enter my mind cause me to doubt myself and never to believe i can be truly as good as i want to be…I ask He whom i doubt a the same time, to help me be rid of my demons…I try and pray, but now i pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet prayer because i can get through it quicker… the bad thoughts still try and do, enter…The Rosary was beautful, but too long for me and the bad thoughts just made me feel as though i was not good enough…My mind would wander whilst trying to pray it sometimes and that is when they entered the most…and when i felt tired and low, without any hope in myself and in those believers outside of this place too.

Simon
 
That is all, and i will end with this…I am sorry for the things i did…but the thoughts that enter my mind cause me to doubt myself and never to believe i can be truly as good as i want to be…I ask He whom i doubt a the same time, to help me be rid of my demons…I try and pray, but now i pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet prayer because i can get through it quicker… the bad thoughts still try and do, enter…The Rosary was beautful, but too long for me and the bad thoughts just made me feel as though i was not good enough…My mind would wander whilst trying to pray it sometimes and that is when they entered the most…and when i felt tired and low, without any hope in myself and in those believers outside of this place too.

And, if possible ,a sign, for me to believe, so that then i would not seek the “love” of others and their “Approval” those, who do not love… but His love alone.

If that is how i should be…Huh!..Maybe i should live in the hollow of a tree as St.Simon Stock, a place wheRE would be away from people who claim to follow, but only only follow as it suits them…That is why there so so many different Christans and denominations…Because everyone wants to revise what is written as they see it, or want to see it…Maybe it should be revised again, to exLcude those sinners such as i, then, everyone will be happy AND NOT FEEL THE HAVE IMPOSED ON THEIR HALLOWED, MADE-TO SUIT-THEMSELVES, BELIEFS

Simon
 
Sorry about all the typos…i can’ t find the edit feature anymore for some reason.

This part is meant to read…AND NOT FEEL AS THOUGH I HAVE IMPOSED MYSELF ON THEIR HALLOWED, MADE-TO-SUIT-THEMSELVES BELIEFS.

Apologies for all the other typos i’ve not seen, grammar and punctuation errors. I know i’m a bit of a thicko.
 
George Carlin famously said in one of his comedy routines about religion (and I’m paraphrasing), ‘God will send you to hell where you will suffer and burn forever and ever…but he loves you.’

I know many immediately think that God doesn’t send you to hell, you send yourself in a way, but even putting that aside, from a human standpoint, suffering and burning forever and ever seems extreme for a possible one time sin or even a perpetual sin. Does hell seem extreme to anyone…in any case?
He loves us so much he gave us free will. The ability to choose Him.
 
George Carlin famously said in one of his comedy routines about religion (and I’m paraphrasing), ‘God will send you to hell where you will suffer and burn forever and ever…but he loves you.’

I know many immediately think that God doesn’t send you to hell, you send yourself in a way, but even putting that aside, from a human standpoint, suffering and burning forever and ever seems extreme for a possible one time sin or even a perpetual sin. Does hell seem extreme to anyone…in any case?
An Unpublished Manuscript on Purgatory

I can tell you about the different degrees of Purgatory because I have passed through them. In the great Purgatory there are several stages. In the lowest and most painful, like a temporary hell, are the sinners who have committed terrible crimes during life and whose death surprised them in that state. It was almost a miracle that they were saved, and often by the prayers of holy parents or other pious persons. Sometimes they did not even have time to confess their sins and the world thought them lost, but God, whose mercy is infinite, gave them at the moment of death the contrition necessary for their salvation on account of one or more good actions which they performed during life. For such souls, Purgatory is terrible. It is a real hell with this difference, that in hell they curse God, whereas we bless Him and thank Him for having saved us.

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=6253
 
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