CARAVAN heading to The U.S.A ( POLL )

[Jimbo]

My idea for immigration pretty much annoys everyone.

We have a ton of immigrants. We can’t build a wall or defend the entire border effectively. Historically… walls just don’t work well to stop illegal immigration, and are questionable as to armies.

I am 100% in favor of a nation being able to regulate its immigration. There is nothing wrong or immoral about that.

I also believe that a healthy immigrant population is a good thing for our country. Most of the people I know who come in bust their butts.

To that end:

A) I’d amnesty those here now illegally, and make those waiting in line have a much easier process. Give them 24 months to show up at Homeland Security with proof of residence and lets get them sworn in. Anyone who won’t do that is subject to being deported after that. Trying to deport everyone here now is a huge, expensive task that just isn’t all that pragmatic. Not doing this means we are going to have a large group of second class citizens here. Not healthy for a republic.

B) For people that want to come to the US and become citizens I’d make the process fairly easy. If you want to come here and have some skin in the game, I’m okay with that. For refugees I’d take them, but unless they are fleeing something transitory in nature I’d encourage them to become citizens, because we can’t keep refugees forever.

C) Strengthen the border defenses as much as we can, within economic reason. We’re 20 trillion in the hole. We can’t build the Great Wall on both land borders. Making it easier to come here might reduce pressure on illegal entry anyway, so we don’t need something perfect. But we do want as good as we can get for the money we have.

D) Build some sort of Ellis Island type area for inbounds who want to become citizens. You might need more than one. We quarantine them there while we make sure that they aren’t contagious with something. I don’t know if you can do any sort of criminal background check given where they are coming from.

E) I’d cut down on the amount of people that just want to come here to use our universities or take expensive jobs on a visa, only to leave. Again, I want people coming here to have skin in the game.

Just my $0.02.

 

[DENNYINMI]

So any calls for social cohesion are seen as “Nazi” to liberals such as yourself.

I quoted from a few outspoken leaders of the Jewish community regarding Trumps policies and I receive this as a reply. To me it is totally meaningless. I was looking at opinions from the perspective of religious blocks, not political affiliations. So the Jewish perspectives quoted are seen by you as Nazi? YIKES. Chesterton’s quote: my mother drunk or sober, my country right or wrong rings true. History has a way of repeating itself rings true as well.

 

[angel12]

Well, okay, your word on that is sufficient, I suppose.

Yes, actually, it is. Thank you for recognizing that.

 

[otrrl]

I used to be against illegal immigration, I suppose I still am. St Thomas Aquinas said something like this: immigration should be allowed but citizenship should only be allowed in the third generation of those immigrants. I don’t think they should be allowed in, just to destabilize our political process.

From the standpoint of all the abortions that have been performed in the U.S., a few thousand immigrants should be WELCOME in the U.S. We have a moral duty to accept them in reparation for our collective sins of abortion.

 

[midori]

From the standpoint of all the abortions that have been performed in the U.S., a few thousand immigrants should be WELCOME in the U.S. We have a moral duty to accept them in reparation for our collective sins of abortion.

Some of the more cynical among us have made the argument that that’s why a certain side of the political spectrum have championed open borders and have taken over the educational system… because they’re missing so many of their own children to carry their banner for the next generation.

 

[pnewton]

If one is actually calling for the attorney general not to follow the laws of this nation, I don’t know what to say

There is no law that mandates he arrest and deport even one person, any more that a policeman is obligated under the law to ticket every speeder. Law enforcement, in almost cases, allows discretion. For example, he could have allowed that an ex-Mexican police officer could have been considered a protected class, instead of send him back to be murdered.

And not, any law that results in the death of an innocent should not be followed. That was established at Nuremberg.

 

[pnewton]

How long have we had a human right to migrate?

I would say to some extent, since Eden. Human rights are not contingent on human laws.

 

[pnewton]

So, is there now a problem with Latinos? Why is this map posted on this topic. I really don’t understand.

 

[pnewton]

Great! Now remember that advice next time I cite Breitbart, Zero Hedge, LifeSite, Gateway Pundit, or a host of other media.

By the way, the NBC myth claims are, themselves, not substantive. They don’t actually prove anything.

Your list has always been incredibly easy to show specific reasons for dismissal. A news blog on the internet cannot make money by attracting a target audience without articles that are not only biased, but blatantly biased, and emotionally charged.

NBC has to be more subtle, as they claim to be journalism. This means, somewhere reporters will have to get past someone that actually tries to be a journalist. Take this article as an example. If you can’t really debunk any connection to this caravan and some source like a rich Democrat, then just debunk the myth that they are directly funding it. You get to fool some people that there is no connection without having to say it.

 

[AugustineFanNYC]

I don’t get what you are getting at. You quoted from Jewish leaders against Trump’s policies, no? Against his immigration policies, am I getting this correct? I didn’t say that they (the Jewish leaders) were Nazis. I said that liberals such as yourself accuse anyone who doesn’t tow the line on 100% multiculturalism with no qualifiers, as Nazis.

I said in other posts that as Catholics we go neither right nor left, because all secular politics in the West are just secularized and broken up Christian perspectives. Catholicism does the best job to reconcile the two.

I think my country right or wrong, the chauvinistic attitudes of the Protestant/Evangelical Conservative Incorporated wing of the GOP is awful and almost lunatic. But at the same time, the overly empathetic, overly sappy nature of the left wing is beyond the pale too. They give victimhood saint status to anyone with a grievance story, even if the story doesn’t add up. And if you do not buy into their sob stories then you’re a “heartless monster”.

They’ll have you believing that you must kill babies in order to free women from oppression. That is how lunatic they are when it comes to their misplaced empathy.

They do the same with the immigration stuff. They do not care about borders, national sovereignty, laws, etc. They care about open borders, an international global community where nation states matter less and less over time. It’s internationalism at it’s finest and it’s wrong. There is no respect for nations whatsoever.

This is why I agree with you to an extent that we should show empathy and find solutions to the crisis, but not be bought off by leftist politics to just let them all in for fear we will be looked at as heartless heathens.

 

[13pollitos]

I still don’t get what the map is supposed to be showing. What are the percentages indicating? I just am not sure why anyone really cares where the most heavily Latino areas in the US are, but I assure you Georgia is NOT 96.1% Hispanic.

I lived there for several years. As an immigrant, married to another immigrant, one of the first things we do is look for Mexican stores or other Latin markets. There are some foods we can’t find at other stores. It’s also a good place to meet up with people that share our heritage. So yes, I admit I seek out other Spanish speaking immigrants. It isn’t because I am opposed to other races (as I’m sure some posters will think), but because it is a sense of community with people where I don’t have to give explainations for every little thing I do or food I eat (tacos de lengua! YUM!!!) that some find weird different. We also seek out military families because no other people really understand our lifestyle. Anyway, in Georgia, there are quite a few more whites and blacks than Hispanics. At least there was 7 years ago when we left.

 

[Augustinian]

One factor I think that our President has to consider in dealing with this is the idea that this won’t be the last caravan and the next ones are already in the works. And the next one might come from sea from Cuba or other Caribbean islands. Or through the air with a convoy of jumbo jets from China.

Remember that polls have been done, and about 170 million people from around the world want to come here.

 

[pnewton]

Again I think that Catholics will be split on this issue because instead of going back to the scriptures, Catholic Social Teaching and other stuff that has helped us through matters such as this, we will tend to look at secular writings and such…So Catholics are caught up in the infighting that is the left/right spectrum, which has it’s roots in secularized Christian politics, i.e. Enlightenment politics.

I noticed you only joined two months ago. I think you have learned pretty fast the way things are here. There is a wide spectrum with which to view social issues. I just wish we all here would start with Catholic Social Doctrine as the lens through which we view politics, instead of the other way around.

Like you, I viewed have a Church that exercises authority as far more liberating than restrictive when I became Catholic.

 

[pnewton]

Representative Louis Gohmert has called for an investigation as to whom could be funding this. I think it was also said, this might violate Rico law.

Has he said what law might have been broken on American soil? Even if this was being funded, I cannot imagine how Rico would apply.

 

[Augustinian]

Even if this was being funded, I cannot imagine how Rico would apply.

We really need an investigation, but its a known fact that criminal outfits like MS13 are traditionally involved in trafficking people to come to the United States to work as drug pushers and prostitutes

 

[pnewton]

One factor I think that our President has to consider in dealing with this is the idea that this won’t be the last caravan and the next ones are already in the works.

They hope to have it ready in two years.

We really need an investigation, but its a known fact that criminal outfits like MS13 are traditionally involved in trafficking people to come to the United States to work as drug pushers and prostitutes

These people haven’t made it to the US border yet, and I do not think they were looking to “sneak” in. While it might raise eyebrows and cost votes to find that US citizens were sending money to help these people, even it were a conspiracy, there must be some law violated in the United States. Yes, if there is an attempt to smuggle them illegally, then those involved could face RICO charges.

 

[DENNYINMI]

I don’t get what you are getting at. You quoted from Jewish leaders against Trump’s policies, no? Against his immigration policies, am I getting this correct? I didn’t say that they (the Jewish leaders) were Nazis. I said that liberals such as yourself accuse anyone who doesn’t tow the line on 100% multiculturalism with no qualifiers, as Nazis.

I admit, I celebrate multiculturalism, if I didn’t I’d be a lonely person. I work with persons of different cultures and religions as well, I’d be unemployed if I labeled persons as Nazi’s for differing opinions.

I happen to believe that different perspectives are informative, some have insight I do not have and view things from a personal cultural perspective I wouldn’t otherwise have.

Yes, these Jewish spokespersons sounded an alarm from their perspectives, which is “never again”. They have expressed a view that the atrocities of the past crept into a civil, culturally rich society in a subtle battle cry which incited fear and found victim scapegoats that could not get out of their “civil” country to escape escalating persecution. Borders were closed.

Perhaps from their personal perspective and culture they see something I had not thought of.

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

Well, okay, your word on that is sufficient, I suppose.

Yes, actually, it is. Thank you for recognizing that.

Well, there you go, then. NBC has all the credibility it requires to continue as a legitimate news organization.

 

[AugustineFanNYC]

You’re mistaking and misusing the concept of multiculturalism. I am not against different cultures, just that if we want to have a decent cohesive society there should be some standards, and those standards should at least be civic in nature, if not outright cultural.

All of the liberals that championed open immigration in the past, such as liberal Justice Louis Brandeis would be labeled a “Nazi” by today’s liberal leftists because of their insistence to some standards.

You’re just virtue signaling by telling us all how many people of different cultures you know, as if we do not know a single person or are friends with people of varying backgrounds. NO country would ever allow their nation to undergo the radical change that has been attempted in our country. NO country. Not India, Israel or Japan. They all value different cultures, as we should too, we should never shun different cultures, and to an extent diversity is our strength, but this open borders policy which benefits certain interests and is couched in multicultural verbiage is not only misguided but deliberately deceptive.

Please learn the difference, and as a Catholic, learn to use discernment. You have fallen prey to leftist politics.

 

[DENNYINMI]

You’re mistaking and misusing the concept of multiculturalism. I am not against different cultures, just that if we want to have a decent cohesive society there should be some standards, and those standards should at least be civic in nature, if not outright cultural.

A decent cohesive society isn’t dependent on sameness. You alluded to a unified ‘religion’, and this neither is dependent on cohesiveness. My neighbors are not Catholic and yet we live in peace. I believe you alluded to “unified” religion. I disagree, and very much so……This is your statement: “They do not believe in borders or that a country should be grounded in a unified culture or even religion”.

Of course I don’t believe in a “unified culture or even religion”…Not within the context it was presented. One can be different and demonstrate culture (class) and even Christianity by charity and respect. We’re supposed to be known by our love.