CARAVAN heading to The U.S.A ( POLL )

[Augustinian]

Why are you thinking in terms of 100% “open borders” vs. 100% “closed borders?” Are you aware that there’s a little more nuance to this?

I agree with this. Do you think these folks in the caravan should be let in?

If you do, who should be barred from entry into America?

 

[Victoria33]

If they want to enter, let them do it legally.

I don’t know if it is true but I heard in one discussion that if they are seeking asylum, they are suppose to do it in the first country they go into. If this is so, then, that would be Guatemala or Mexico.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

The point of asylum is to escape a life-threatening situation, and yes, I believe you have to seek asylum in the first country you enter into once exiting your own. I’m not an expert though, so I can’t say for sure.

 

[Victoria33]

They’re doing it legally. It’s called seeking asylum. It’s legal.

Not if they are suppose to do it (ask for asylum) to the first country they come to. A person in true distress would probably ask the first country they come to for asylum, not making it something about choice.

 

[HarryStotle]

Why should we beat around the bush? When people are in trouble the letter of the law no longer matters. When children, women, and the vulnerable are willing to walk that distance and endure everything from rape to the potential of not surviving the journey itself, legalities will never take priority over the instinct for survival.
As a Catholic and a citizen of the United States that resides here due to immigrants, I support them. It’s not a political spur, it’s pro-life.

As a Catholic and a citizen of the United States, do you have a quota or threshold number where you would draw a line and say we have reached a tolerable number of immigrants? Or is your generosity infinite despite that your capacity to sustain the “instinct for survival” is not? Destabilizing a country is never brought up as a consideration by those so ready to be generous with other people’s goods.

I mean it isn’t as if life is so bad in Central America that survival itself is in jeopardy. The migrants themselves aren’t claiming that – although you are. The migrants in every case I’ve seen or read are looking for jobs and economic advancement. That isn’t about survival.

They also could be asked why they are so willing to abandon their own homeland when they could be using their talents, initiative, long-suffering and fortitude to better conditions in their own country. I am certain if they took the time to come up with a workable solution to some local problem they would find sources of funding in a country like the US to support what they do. They, too, are being manipulated.

The more I read and research, the more I am convinced that this exploding migration issue has globalist political motivation behind it. The globalist elite who have the most to gain from a borderless world and centralized top-down governance are those pushing very hard to destabilize sovereign countries. Fortunately, “the people” are waking up to the manipulation by the media, celebrities, leftist politicians and the wealthy elite. You and your sense of charity are being used by ruthless power-mongers to reshape the world to their benefit.

 

[graciew]

Also, I heard, when they come as a Caravan, that may mean they won’t be paying the “Coyotes”,

This, IMO,is the reason so many people joined in.
But in all honesty,I doubt it is the reason why it was organized.
It was expectable though that no coyotes would increase the number of 2,000 people ,who originally departed from Honduras ( that is the number I read, I do not know if it is accurate).

 

[blackforest]

If you do, who should be barred from entry into America?

Criminals, drug traffickers.

Not if they are suppose to do it (ask for asylum) to the first country they come to.

No, it’s still legal.

A person in true distress would probably ask the first country they come to for asylum, not making it something about choice.

A person in true distress is going to want to a place where they feel safer than where they were, in this case the U.S.

Also, I heard, when they come as a Caravan, that may mean they won’t be paying the “Coyotes”, people smugglers any money.

Yes, that is another valid reason to join a large group.

Prolife is helping resolve the situation they are running from, and dragging their poor children with them.

Precisely what would you advice they do to stop the ruthless violence?

And what person with a conscience would leave their innocent children in a violent situation?

 

[13pollitos]

And what person with a conscience would leave their innocent children in a violent situation?

Ask the thousands who have done just that. There are couples on this caravan that have talked to reporters that left their kids behind. There are many men and women already in the US that have left their kids behind. There are even more that left their spouse and most of the kids while the took one with them. Ask them why they would leave their kids behind in a situation that is so horrible.

Some pay smugglers to bring their kids at a later date which places their kids in even more danger. Why? I have no idea. Ask them.

 

[blackforest]

Ask the thousands who have done just that. There are couples on this caravan that have talked to reporters that left their kids behind. There are many men and women already in the US that have left their kids behind. There are even more that left their spouse and most of the kids while the took one with them. Ask them why they would leave their kids behind in a situation that is so horrible.

You’re contradicting yourself. Just upthread you were blasting these families for “dragging their poor children with them.”

Prolife is helping resolve the situation they are running from, and dragging their poor children with them.

They can’t do anything right for their critics can, they? If you’re deadset on passing judgment against them, figure out first which judgment you’d like to pass.

 

[13pollitos]

Many do, and I wasn’t blasting them. I understand better what they face than most posters here. My parents brought me and my siblings here from Bolivia specifically for a better chance in life and my husband hopped the border from Mexico 30 years ago. I was blasting the idea of supporting a dangerous journey as prolife when it places all of them (and others) in such grave danger. Supporting people in their home country and helping them fight for changes, overcome the violence, and better their lives is much more prolife. Providing opportunities for them to safely and legally arrive directly to this country is prolife. Preserving their dignity as we block them from smugglers, the media, cartels, activists and others that want to use them as pawns for their own agenda and politicize their struggles…

It is not a contradiction to point out that while many do subject their kids to the dangers on this caravan, that there are others that leave their children behind in the place they say is so deadly. Just as all of us make choices that differ within the same circumstances, migrants do just that. It’s very weird that someone has to explain that. Not all Latinos are going to choose to do things in the same way as other Latinos.

 

[Augustinian]

If you do, who should be barred from entry into America?

No one can vouch for any of the people in the caravan in regards to their character and whether or not they are a criminal or pusher. So let them in or no?

 

[13pollitos]

They can’t do anything right for their critics can, they? If you’re deadset on passing judgment against them, figure out first which judgment you’d like to pass.

You are WAY off base here. And that is very rude

 

[graciew]

There is more news and I apologize for not posting all the sources because they are in Spanish and it does take time.
Take the numbers with a grain of salt because they cannot really be very accurate but about 4,500 have returned due to the hardship of the journey,illnesses,children,pregnancies ,etc.
The Honduran President and I believe his wife have encourage them returning and they are being offered a job and betterment of their living conditions. Buses are being provided to return.

 

[vz71]

I am not answering the poll.
It fails to provide a response for those that say to simply let the law stand.

If they can legally cross the border, then let them.
Otherwise turn them away.

The last thing we need in this country more criminals.

 

[graciew]

There is something about the organizer( or alleged organizer) that you may want to read.
He may not be the only one,and not all being said may be attributable to him. I do not know.
But the article basically shows the political conflict within Honduras as well.
Here is the original

El hombre señalado como organizador de la caravana de migrantes que va a EE.UU. - LA NACION

I will Google translate it in a while and post it here.
I suggest… not engaging ourselves in anything that may sound biased nor use it to bang each other on the head but at least try to understand what is going on there,and get the idea that there are internal political conflicts there as well

Here it is with Google translate

https://translate.googleusercontent...700230&usg=ALkJrhh-1858tEL1nsGoJtTOaKXR0_lLgw

 

[blackforest]

No one can vouch for any of the people in the caravan in regards to their character and whether or not they are a criminal or pusher. So let them in or no?

So there’s absolutely no vetting system in place? At all?

Providing opportunities for them to safely and legally arrive directly to this country is prolife.

They arrive legally petitioning for asylum. What should be done for their safety? What are you willing to do?

It is not a contradiction to point out that while many do subject their kids to the dangers on this caravan, that there are others that leave their children behind in the place they say is so deadly.

You first accused them of “dragging” (your word) their children with them to get them out a dangerous country. Are you upset with them for leaving children behind? If not, I apologize for misunderstanding you. If you are, then rather than passing blame and judgment, try to understand that this is an extremely complicated situation with some tough choices to make. There are dangers no matter what, and some people choose to take different risks than others. I really don’t know what I’d do under the circumstances.

This isn’t directed at you personally, but I wish I saw more compassion toward these people in this thread. Instead of chicken-littling about the predicament, we should all be having a conversation about which actions the Church should take to respond.

 

[graciew]

this is an extremely complicated situation with some tough choices to make

I think she does understand…but for us Latin Americans trying to explain the complexities and be fully understood is really very difficult.
And when children are involved, we get all sorts of mixed feelings.
Persons have their reasons and their sufferings as well.
And I agree with Pollitos that so many are just pawns,and have been for too long.

 

[13pollitos]

Exactly. It is very hard to explain to people that haven’t lived it. Especially when so many see things as just a political issue that has one right and another wrong. It’s not like that. It’s not a “us” vs “them” issue because REAL PEOPLE are involved.

 

[Augustinian]

So there’s absolutely no vetting system in place? At all?

If someone has been in America before, and its a return trip, sure. If its someone new, whose to say, particularly if they have no documents. Sure, they can keep them incarcerated while they check them out with their governments, but if they have children accompanying them, they really can’t do that .

it isn’t like these folks have passports- which BTW, you wouldn’t be able to go from the US to Honduras without.

 

[Victoria33]

This really looks like it is set up by Venezuela and leftist groups because of the way, they talk about the big bad Yanqui. That is there propaganda, I’m not saying it is all wrong either.