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Seamus_L
Guest
Sadly, the way things have been going it’s like I almost expect someone to say that he’s promoting disobedience by this.
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Pulvis
Guest
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Justin_Swanton
Guest
The problem is that the issue Cardinal Burke raises is impossible to ignore. It’s too radical to smooth over or explain away. The hierarchy are gradually taking sides on the question. Yes, there are now two sides: those for and those against. There is no in between.
This October is going be very interesting.
This October is going be very interesting.
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Seamus_L
Guest
Metaphorically speaking it sounds like it’s going to be the “Poles” vs “Germans” in Oct.
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LongingSoul
Guest
Well it’s good to reference the Catechism to orient oneself regularly but not as an alternative to Pope Francis’ method of teaching… as a way of aligning ourselves to the papacy of the Holy Father. It is opportune to refer here to CCC 882
The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter’s successor, "is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful."402 "For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered."403
The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter’s successor, "is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful."402 "For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered."403
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christofirst
Guest
St. Paul says we have different gifts we bring to the Church. Cardinal Burke apparently knows that there are many who share his more conservative point of view, and he seems to be assuming the role of spokesman so as to allay their fears. Pope Francis seems to be casting a wider net, to the dismay of some and the approval of others, and yet they each serve the Church in their own unique way. October will indeed be interesting.
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Memaw
Guest
Now tell me how in the world can turning to the Catechism and what the Church has always taught be disobedient??? The Media is a big part of the confusion. God Bless, Memaw
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Memaw
Guest
The Holy Spirit will prevail !! God Bless, Memaw
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LongingSoul
Guest
How can there be sides when we don’t even know what the outcome is? Or do you mean that one side are those who trust in the Church, the synod process and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. And those who already knowing all ‘truth’ demand that any and all theological discussion be shut down?
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_Abyssinia
Guest
Yes, and the Catechism also says:
ewtn.com/expert/answers/communion_of_divorced_and_remarr.htm
That situation that the Catechism speaks of, of ‘public and permanent adultery’ is surely one of the issues that blocks those remarried people who are not living as ‘brother and sister’ from receiving Communion, and the fact that the paragraph that didn’t get 2/3rds majority regarding Communion was allowed in the final document by Pope Francis, is one of the things that has some people wondering. This doesn’t necessarily mean dissent, but confusion or questioning.
Suudy
Active member
I don’t see where +Burke said anything about the Catechism as an alternative. I don’t think he’s stating an either/or at all, but like most things in the Church, **both **Papa Francis and the Catechism.
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smead2942
Guest
I really don’t think anything will change.
However, I am more likely to agree with Cardinal Burke. We can’t compromise doctrine for the sake of inclusiveness and modernization.
However, I am more likely to agree with Cardinal Burke. We can’t compromise doctrine for the sake of inclusiveness and modernization.
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agnes_therese
Guest
Seriously. That’s just silly.
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LongingSoul
Guest
Pope Francis was elected to the Seat of Peter by a college of holy Cardinals, carried by the force of the prayers of faithful Catholics around the world. Is it appropriate to take the position that he doesn’t push my barrow and is confusing me so I will instead focus on the Catechism? Or is it not more fitting to say I am confused by his ideas and exhortations but by the grace of God I will be open to what teaching purpose the Holy Spirit has inspired him with? Being challenged out of personal certainties and familiar comfort zones is exactly how God draws people to Him. If people are confused by Pope Francis, what a great call to listen and wait for how God means for us to grow and learn from his papacy!
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J_Peterson
Guest
Are we at the point where we can assume that Cardinal Burke doesn’t like Pope Francis very much?
I hope all this rabble rousing doesn’t lead to a schism.
I hope all this rabble rousing doesn’t lead to a schism.
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kozlosap
Guest
I think it’s safe to say that we reached that point last fall. Burke’s holier than the pope stance brings to mind the perverbial “ugly American” scenereo. I do not think that Pope Emeritus Benedict appreciates being used as a wedge by Cardinal Burke and his gang.
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Corki
Guest
Yes, that’s perfectly appropriate if by “push my barrow” you mean that a person doesn’t quite “get” what Pope Francis is saying or understand it in the way it is being presented. In that case, the Catechism as a focus is quite appropriate. It’s not like the Catechism and Pope Francis are saying different things - just different presentations.
The world is full of people who learn different ways. Pope Benedict’s manner of teaching was to always be very precise and start from the basics moving outward. Pope Francis does not speak in the same precise manner. He starts from the experience and then moves inward. The Catechism is a neutral source, uncolored by the personal style of either Pope.
What ever method floats your boat or pushes your barrow is just fine.
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McCall1981
Guest
God bless Cardinal Burke 
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Lapey
Guest
How do you sense that Cardinal Burke is calling souls to seek the CCC to go against the Holy Father??? He is instructing the faithful to go to the CCC to be able to understand the Holy Father, the two do not oppose each other.
The good cardinal is simply saying, if you find yourself confused, go to the CCC. There you will find the teachings, which is what the Holy Father is saying. We may get a distorted view of his words in the media, but he is speaking in the authority of his office and within the authority of the CCC.
Think of the huge outcry when the Pope changed the doctrine on how we treat homosexuals…“who am I to judge?” Oh yes, I forgot, he DIDN"T change anything; he quoted the CCC almost word for word. But the media reported that he changed the Catholic Church’s stance on homosexuals. That is all Cardinal Burke is saying, if you’re confused, go to the resource of the teaching.
“With someone like Pope Benedict XVI, we had a master teacher who was giving us extended catechesis on various subjects,” he said. “I now say to people that, if they are experiencing some confusion from the method of teaching of Pope Francis, the important thing is to turn to the catechism and to what the Church has always taught, and to teach that, to foster it at the parish level, beginning first with the family.”
How is it that you see a contradiction or competition between the CCC and Pope? It does not exist.
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