Cardinal Dolan - Explaining My Decision to Serve as Grand Marshal

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gam197 said:
I see many very overweight parents and I often notice that their children are very thin. I think they do not want to pass down what they have had to deal with in their lives and they are concerned about their childrens’ health. Kudos to those parents who learn how to pass on good skills to their children!
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Good news. Thanks for sharing that as I was wondering to myself about overweight parents and their attitudes towards the children. 👍
 
signit said:
Thanks. I understand now.

My bottom line, what I always say, is that it’s not a conscious choice (at least for the vast majority) and it’s not changeable (at least it’s not easily changeable). It doesn’t really matter, from my perspective and from a Catholic perspective, whether they were “born that way” or not.

My opinion is, some people emphasize arguments that they weren’t “born that way” because then it’s a shorter step to “well, they can change” or “they chose it” and therefore all they have to do is “pray the gay away” or maybe have “conversion therapy.” We’ve seen plenty of posts from Catholics with SSA suggesting that it’s not as simple as that.
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I agree with you that it appears that it is extremely difficult to change. Despite concerted efforts perhaps for some (many / most) it might even be impossible, or nigh-on close to it.
 
signit said:
Being a Klansman, though, is a choice. “Irish Klansmen” would be making a choice to identify with a particular political movement.

Same-sex attraction (like opposite-sex attraction) is (as far as we know) not generally fluid or changeable, certainly not easily or readily changeable.
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You are making a big assumption, that there is no choice involved same sex attraction. But whether there is choice or not is not relevant to the point I made. The point is that the nature of a groups activity outside of the parade does determine whether people think a group should march. Replace Irish Klansman with Irish self abusers and my point still stands.
 
The “explanation” doesn’t make me feel any better. I’ll leave it at that in the interests of following the user agreement.
 
A Cardinal doesn’t even need to defend himself. He is a Cardinal and the laity needs to know their place.
 
gam197 said:
Wow.
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Hey, we’re not talking child abuse here. We are talking about showing up at a parade.

He doesn’t owe anyone an explanation for such a matter.

Both traditional and more liberal Catholics have developed this pattern to questioning the action of those in the Church who have authority.
 
I think what the Cardinal did is awesome. He is indeed politically astute.

So, he is giving the group enough rope for them to hang themselves. Everything he says is true about Church teaching. So, if the group keeps their participation to “Irishness” and doesn’t promote anything the sounds like participating in the gay sexual lifestyle, everything will come off without a hitch.

If the group does get into advocating gay sex, the Cardinal can say that the group didn’t follow his understanding of their participation, and he can deal with that.
 
exnihilo said:
You are making a big assumption, that there is no choice involved same sex attraction. But whether there is choice or not is not relevant to the point I made. The point is that the nature of a groups activity outside of the parade does determine whether people think a group should march. Replace Irish Klansman with Irish self abusers and my point still stands.
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Not all Irish people with SSA are self-abusers, though.
 
PaulinVA said:
I think what the Cardinal did is awesome. He is indeed politically astute.

So, he is giving the group enough rope for them to hang themselves. Everything he says is true about Church teaching. So, if the group keeps their participation to “Irishness” and doesn’t promote anything the sounds like participating in the gay sexual lifestyle, everything will come off without a hitch.

If the group does get into advocating gay sex, the Cardinal can say that the group didn’t follow his understanding of their participation, and he can deal with that.
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This group already promotes the gay sexual lifestyle on its twitter and facebook accounts. They are actively involved in so many pride events. On their float, they dress in leather shorts with suspenders(no shirts).

How would they further promote it?
 
This blog post gave me more ‘food for thought’:

To March or Not to March?

Fr. Peter Dugandzic
Posted by Fr. Peter Dugandzic on Friday, 19 September 2014

SNIP:
In the course of the last few days, the Internet has exploded with those expressing their thoughts on the matter. For me, it is ironic that just as I put the finishing touches on a post asking Michael Voris to see Cardinal Dolan in a new light, his Eminence released a statement justifying his choices of late. Having read it with the eyes of a moral theologian, it would have been better had the Cardinal left us in suspense. The following is submitted for consideration in my capacity as a moral theologian.
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final paragraph:
To keep this conversation in perspective, we must recall that Cardinal Dolan is the Archbishop of New York. While certainly the Catholics in the Archdiocese look to him with great admiration, respect, and trust, this same disposition is offered by the faithful across the country. It was Cardinal Dolan who said just before being elevated to the office of Cardinal, “The new evangelization is urgent because secularism has often choked the seed of faith, but that choking was sadly made easy because so many believers really had no adequate knowledge or grasp of the wisdom, beauty and coherence of the truth.” It was at this point where he reminded us of the urgent need to “combat catechetical illiteracy.” In this regard, we have to take the opportunities given us to share the Splendor of Truth with those in our care. Many Catholics in the United States do not know me, but they surely know Cardinal Dolan. Those who expressed dismay to the Cardinal know something is amiss, even though they cannot say what it is. I hope and pray that at some point Cardinal Dolan reread 1 Corinthians 8 and recall how important it is to avoid giving scandal to the Christians in his care, whose faith may be weak.
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(emphasis mine)

I was not aware that pro-life groups were not allowed!:confused:
How ironic. How incomprehensible that a group which (inherently) does not support or advocate families is allowed, while a pro-family advocacy group would be disallowed.

However, in light of the fact that most St Patrick’s Day public celebrations have become occasions for partying, getting drunk on green beer, and rowdy behavior, maybe there should not be such a to-do over this.

Isn’t is a bit like Mardi Gras, which started as a Feast prior to the fasting season of Lent? It, too, has become an event to display and revel in hedonism.

My $0.02,
Mimi
 
ringil said:
Hey, we’re not talking child abuse here. We are talking about showing up at a parade.

He doesn’t owe anyone an explanation for such a matter.

Both traditional and more liberal Catholics have developed this pattern to questioning the action of those in the Church who have authority.
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Supposedly there’s been more going on than just the rule change allowing the one gay group. Bill Donohue has been furious lately because the organizers burned the Catholic League and pro-Life groups in general. He has stated a few times now that the organizers promised him early on that they would let a pro-Life group march if a rule change came to pass, however he says they shut him out and made it impossible for this to happen.

I don’t expect anything personally from His Eminence, but if what Donohue says is true, I would love it if His Eminence could lean on the organizers to make good on their promise.
 
From reading the good Cardinal’s statement, it sounds like he’s under the impression the group will only march under a banner saying “Gay (GLBT?) Irish”, so if the group breaks this rule, then, we will have to see further developments.
 
abucs said:
You might want to follow up on some of the researchers mentioned here :

virtueonline.org/no-one-born-gay
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While I agree, I would point out that the Catholic Church has no position on the innate nature of homosexuality. This would be a matter of science and the verdict is not in. Any one who is certain on this topic is speaking from perspective and spin, not fact.

But subjectively, it is irrelevant. I do not think anyone will argue that these people view this as their identity.
 
zz912 said:
Thankfully St. Catherine of Siena did not take your advice.
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St. Catherine was not in this situation and we have no way of knowing what she would think of it. She gets thrown into this sort of discussion a lot, even though her life seldom applies. From all I have read, she was polite and low key with her advice, offering advice and persuasion, not defiance and public skewering.

She is both a Saint and a Doctor of the Church. However, there is not indication that this was based in anyway upon anything other than her life of holiness, spirituality and her insightful writing. She is one of two people who have been used as an excuse for all sort of disobedience to Church authority. I do not think this honors her true example of sanctity to us.
 
Path_Finder said:
From reading the good Cardinal’s statement, it sounds like he’s under the impression the group will only march under a banner saying “Gay (GLBT?) Irish”, so if the group breaks this rule, then, we will have to see further developments.
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Breaks what rule - one banner.

Again, everything they espouse is already on their websites for every catholic in the world to see. Please spend some time and scroll to the bottom of their facebook page.

Three gay marriage stories from three different states , each showing a gay couple getting married is not a problem. This is their facebook page.

Another story, two men experiencing the birth of their first child is not a problem?

facebook.com/OUTNBCUniversal

twitter.com/hashtag/prideNBCU?src=ha
 
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