Cardinal Dolan Honors Girl Scouts at Cathedral Mass

[pnewton]

This proves what exactly?

Again, what does this prove

These questions are why internet rumors multiply and the mainstream media (and their counterpart, Fox) are so dangerous. Proof? I offered no proof. I was giving reasons why this evidence (again not proof) implicating the Girls Scouts was questionable evidence.

I think if there was a possibility these were untrue, the GSA would’ve contradicted it immediately and forcefully, especially since many Christians have left the GSA for the American Heritage Girls for this very reason.

This is good evidence. Even and argument from silence can have some validity. However, it is still a past tense issue. If a child has a bad mouth and after years of punishing he suddenly cleans up his language and keeps it clean for years, do you reward him for his good behavior, or punish him for his past bad behavior?

Cardinal Dolan wasn’t honoring individual Girl Scouts, but giving the St. Elizabeth Ann Seton medal to Anna Maria Chavez, a “Catholic” who supports pro-abortion, pro-same sex marriage politicans. CNA did a great article on the ideology of Ms. Chavez here: catholicnewsagency.com/cw/post.php?id=635

People wonder why the majority of Catholics in America disregard most of the Church’s teachings; well, a major reason is that many of the Church’s leaders have scandalized the faithful by not condemning “Catholic” public figures when they speak out against Catholic teaching.

I can see why he is a bishop and you are not. I read your article, and there are certainly a lot of innuendos in it that suggest an alignment that has not distanced her from Democratic ideologies. What is lacking though, is anything Ms. Chavez has done that is immoral, not that the rest of us are perfect. I know here anything associated with Democrats is considered a Satanic tie, but that is not the position of the Church. The Catholic Church, its bishops, do not engage in politics. Cardinal Dolan has never been shy and has addressed the issue of abortion many times. He has made the position of the Church quite clear. When it comes to individuals tough, the Church does not view political associations, suggested alignments or CNA reports.

Perhaps Cardinal Dolan is simply unwilling to cede any more ground to the enemy as too many are anxious to do.

 

[Lucky7]

Proof? I offered no proof. I was giving reasons why this evidence (again not proof) implicating the Girls Scouts was questionable evidence.

So the fact that there is nothing on the GSA website showing a connection with PP shows that the evidence is questionable?

Wouldn’t that thinking also hold true for the lack of evidence that the USCCB is doing an investigation of GSA since there is no evidence on their website that such an investigation is taking place?

Not to mention the fact that I can’t even get a form letter/e-mail from the USCCB committee thanking me for my email and that they are still investigating the issue and will report their conclusions when they reach them.

Honestly. There was one article in May, 2012 that was repeatedly referenced by other sites about the USCCB doing an investigation, but there is no other evidence anywhere. I absolutely question whether there is ANY investigation being done at all. I hope I’m wrong, but it just wouldn’t surprise me these days.

 

[GRATEFULONEjim]

My main question is…If people are so unwilling to accept the research of parents, like ourselves, who have taken the steps to review the curriculum being presented and have taken the necessary steps to instruct their children in the teachings of the Catholic Church, why do they not seek the proof they need through their own research into the situation and stop waiting for someone else to deliver the information to them on a platter?

 

[Julianna]

These questions are why internet rumors multiply and the mainstream media (and their counterpart, Fox) are so dangerous. Proof? I offered no proof. I was giving reasons why this evidence (again not proof) implicating the Girls Scouts was questionable evidence.
This is good evidence. Even and argument from silence can have some validity. However, it is still a past tense issue. If a child has a bad mouth and after years of punishing he suddenly cleans up his language and keeps it clean for years, do you reward him for his good behavior, or punish him for his past bad behavior?
I can see why he is a bishop and you are not. I read your article, and there are certainly a lot of innuendos in it that suggest an alignment that has not distanced her from Democratic ideologies. What is lacking though, is anything Ms. Chavez has done that is immoral, not that the rest of us are perfect. I know here anything associated with Democrats is considered a Satanic tie, but that is not the position of the Church. The Catholic Church, its bishops, do not engage in politics. Cardinal Dolan has never been shy and has addressed the issue of abortion many times. He has made the position of the Church quite clear. When it comes to individuals tough, the Church does not view political associations, suggested alignments or CNA reports.

Perhaps Cardinal Dolan is simply unwilling to cede any more ground to the enemy as too many are anxious to do.

Wow! excellent post. It is refreshing to see the forest through the trees of innuendo.

 

[Julianna]

My main question is…If people are so unwilling to accept the research of parents, like ourselves, who have taken the steps to review the curriculum being presented and have taken the necessary steps to instruct their children in the teachings of the Catholic Church, why do they not seek the proof they need through their own research into the situation and stop waiting for someone else to deliver the information to them on a platter?

Your research is based on your personal experience with a non parish GS Troop. Bravo to you and your family making a decision based on your faith teaching. If you set out to let other Catholic parents know what is going on in non parish sponsored GS Troops you have met your goal.

With that said, the condemnation of parish GS Troops into the PP loving group is over the top when there hasn’t been any evidence or the Church coming forth with “instruction”.

Others have posted websites to far right Catholic blogs and media. Of course, this is what you’ll get, but it is not evidence, as the Church has not said anything about it. I have to give Parish Priests credit to be able to discern if there is indeed a PP issue within their parish sponsored troop. I believe Cardinal Dolan to be a Church leader capable of this.

Contacted the USCCB on this issue may a good start, but don’t expect them to drop what they are doing and handle this issue immediately. Like our US Government, the wheels of the inner workings move very slowly as there are other issues beyond a non parish sponsored troop taking GS on a trip to PP.

I’m sure are happy with the group you placed your children in as you are the parent and you do what is best for your family.

 

[GRATEFULONEjim]

Your research is based on your personal experience with a non parish GS Troop. Bravo to you and your family making a decision based on your faith teaching. If you set out to let other Catholic parents know what is going on in non parish sponsored GS Troops you have met your goal.

GSA does not have separate curricula that are distributed to faith based groups and non-faith based groups. It is a standardized curriculum that is distributed to all groups. If the questionable material was in the group we researched, it is in them all. Any fundraising that is done by faith based GS programs goes to support the national entity which supports these teachings. If there are parish based GS troupes, they can easily be changed to American Heritage Girls which has a standardized curriculum that upholds the teachings of the Catholic Church.

 

[pnewton]

So the fact that there is nothing on the GSA website showing a connection with PP shows that the evidence is questionable?

Wouldn’t that thinking also hold true for the lack of evidence that the USCCB is doing an investigation of GSA since there is no evidence on their website that such an investigation is taking place?

Neither is so much evidence as something that undermines the strength of evidence. You are totally correct though about a USCCB investigation. Reports in news journals and blogs are not always right.

 

[pnewton]

GSA does not have separate curricula that are distributed to faith based groups and non-faith based groups. It is a standardized curriculum that is distributed to all groups.

From the original article.

Awards given out included the Ad Altare Dei Emblem, the Ad Altare Dei, the Marian Award, the Pope Pius XII Emblem, the St. Elizabeth Ann Seton Award, the St. Anne Award, the Spirit Alive Award, the Bronze Pelican Award, the St. George Award and the Silver Antelope Award.

Are you saying these are not specifically Catholic and all Scouts earn these rewards?

 

[GRATEFULONEjim]

From the original article.

Are you saying these are not specifically Catholic and all Scouts earn these rewards?

Individual Merit Badges and standardized curriculum are two totally different aspects. Merit Badges are chosen areas of study over and above the standard curriculum that is taught to all scouts. I am talking about standard curriculum that is in contrast to Church teaching.

 

[pnewton]

Individual Merit Badges and standardized curriculum are two totally different aspects. Merit Badges are chosen areas of study over and above the standard curriculum that is taught to all scouts. I am talking about standard curriculum that is in contrast to Church teaching.

Hmm. This is the first I heard of this. The only two things I heard that were objectionable were also optional.

 

[Brendan]

From the original article.

Are you saying these are not specifically Catholic and all Scouts earn these rewards?

But those are not Scout curricula. They are USCCB\NCCS\NFCYM awards that are offered by the local diocese. BSA or GSUSA have no involvement.

The Boy Scout Handbook and the Journey books would be publications of their respective organizations, but the ones you had listed are not. They are offered by the Catholic Church, via the local dioceses to Catholic boys and girls.

The NFCYM awards are actually available to other organizations, such as parish youth groupsm further proof that they are not Scouting awards, as girls who are not in any scouting program at all can receive them at the discretion of the local diocese.

And some of the adults awards can be given to anyone involved in youth ministry. I know of someone who received the SEAS award for years of involvement in CYO sports.

So how exactly is that a Scouting award?

 

[pnewton]

But those are not Scout curricula.

The only award I have dealt with so far was part of the scouting program. You can even reference it on the BSA website. If by curricula, you mean only that which is universal, then that will also disallow all the controversial stuff. For example, if a group of girl scouts cosponsored by, let’s say, NOW, went to PP for a field trip, that is optional and in no way would reflect the need for Cardinal Dolan’s diocesan sponsored groups to do the same. In fact, there is nothing wrong with using some of the optional GSA guides as a visual aid to show exactly what is wrong with our sexualized society. It actually could make a strong impact in the opposite direction PP intended.

There is more than one way to use our religious freedom.

 

[Cojuanco]

Look, when the Conference announces the results of the investigation substantiating the charges, then I will condemn them from the housetops. Meanwhile, should we not put a charitable construction as possible, especially when they have not yet been formally condemned by our lawful superiors?

 

[GRATEFULONEjim]

I didn’t need the USCCB to hold my hand when I made the determination that the curriculum being presented by the GSA was against Catholic teaching. There is no way to sugar coat the approval of contraceptive use by the GSA curriculum. It is flat out, 100%, stone cold, against the teaching of the Catholic Church. I do not need an advisory board from a Bishop’s commission to rule on that for me. :banghead:

 

[pnewton]

Look, when the Conference announces the results of the investigation substantiating the charges, then I will condemn them from the housetops. Meanwhile, should we not put a charitable construction as possible, especially when they have not yet been formally condemned by our lawful superiors?

I didn’t need the USCCB to hold my hand when I made the determination that the curriculum being presented by the GSA was against Catholic teaching. There is no way to sugar coat the approval of contraceptive use by the GSA curriculum. It is flat out, 100%, stone cold, against the teaching of the Catholic Church. I do not need an advisory board from a Bishop’s commission to rule on that for me. :banghead:

Both statements are valid. The ruling is not whether contraception is wrong but rather if contraception (and abortion) is tied* materially *to the a Catholic-sponsored Girl Scout group.

 

[Joe_5859]

I didn’t need the USCCB to hold my hand when I made the determination that the curriculum being presented by the GSA was against Catholic teaching. There is no way to sugar coat the approval of contraceptive use by the GSA curriculum. It is flat out, 100%, stone cold, against the teaching of the Catholic Church. I do not need an advisory board from a Bishop’s commission to rule on that for me. :banghead:

The curriculum has already been changed to remove those elements in response to (name removed by moderator)ut from Catholics.

If there were no Catholics in the GSA, no one would be around to complain and the curriculum never would have been changed.

 

[GRATEFULONEjim]

The curriculum has already been changed to remove those elements in response to (name removed by moderator)ut from Catholics.

If there were no Catholics in the GSA, no one would be around to complain and the curriculum never would have been changed.

That curriculum was still being presented in the Fall of 2012 in the GSA course manual under reproductive health.

 

[GRATEFULONEjim]

catholicstand.com/the-girl-scouts-radical-friends/

The plot thickens

 

[pnewton]

catholicstand.com/the-girl-scouts-radical-friends/

The plot thickens

The article builds the same guilt by association case that has been from the beginning, or as the initial sentence says, “Tell me who you hang out with and I’ll tell you who you are.” So would this make Jesus a sinner and tax collector? Or more to the point, Anna Chavez also is connected with Cardinal Dolan, does that make her an orthodox Catholic? Associations are evidence, to be sure, but they are weak evidence and never conclusive. This blog is the opinion of one 17 year old girl. No plot development here.

 

[livingwordunity]

Unsubstantiated??? I was told directly by the GSA leadership in our area that the issues I brought forth were in effect true, in force, and part of the curriculum. That was all the information that my wife and I needed to make our decision.

Don’t wait for someone else to give approval…Go to your local Girls Scouts and ask to see the prescribed curriculum and ask the questions yourself as my wife and I did. You will need no further clarification on the issues if you do that.

I know about a good alternative to the GSA. It’s called American Heritage Girls. They teach girls traditional family values and belief in God. And they aren’t corrupted by the radical feminist/homosexual activist agenda. From their website:

AHG Oath:

“I promise to love God,
Cherish my family,
Honor my country,
and Serve in my community.”

AHG Mission:

“Building women of integrity through
service to God, family, community and country.”

AHG Vision:

“American Heritage Girls is the premier national
character development organization for young women that
embraces Christian values and encourages family involvement.”

Here’s their website:

ahgonline.org/