Cardinal Dolan Honors Girl Scouts at Cathedral Mass

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There is a much better choice…American Heritage Girls. Any Catholic Church run or sponsored GSA troop should immediately change their affiliation to this group if they wish to be faithful to the teachings of the Catholic Church and not in any way, through fundraisers, or advertising, promote that the Catholic faithful encourage GSA ideals or curriculum.
This assumes the guilt that has not yet been established by the Catholic Church. I only say this to dispel the idea that somehow Cardinal Dolan is not faithful to the Catholic Church for his honoring of Girl Scouts.
NO Catholic should feel comfortable with GSA if they are truly living their faith based on the evidence that has been presented.
I do not find the evidence conclusive, at least yet. It is fine if one believes them problematic to speak against them and it is surely fine to join and organization like Heritage Girls. What should not be acceptable is judging other Catholics based on association of an association of a possible association with evil.
 
Looks like the BSA will be in the same boat as the Girl Scouts, and it already looks like some dioceses are looking to pull their affiliation with them. Our Pack just folded this month, and I’m sure many more before all is said and done.

Dr. Taylor Marshall (who was recently on Catholic Answers Live) has a new scouting program for boys - Catholic Scouts of St. George. Sounds like a good alternative, probably even better than American Heritage is for girls. Here’s some more info on it for those interested: taylormarshall.com/2013/05/why-im-starting-new-boy-scouts-my.html
 
I do not find the evidence conclusive, at least yet. It is fine if one believes them problematic to speak against them and it is surely fine to join and organization like Heritage Girls. What should not be acceptable is judging other Catholics based on association of an association of a possible association with evil.
No judgements have been made or asserted. Only for Catholics to do their own research on where the GSA stands on various issue that are in stark contrast to the teachings of the Church.

I ask parents who have children enrolled in local groups to sit down with the group leaders and review the curriculum, which my wife and I did which formed our decision to remove our girls from the local group based on the curriculum being against the teachings of the Catholic Church.

I ask Catholics to take the necessary steps in their own parishes to ensure that their children are not being exposed to ideas, in these types of programs, that are in stark contrast to the Catholic faith.

Catholicism is a way of life to be lived every day not only on Sunday for 1 hour. The American Catholic needs to be reminded of this. It is becoming increasingly more difficult to be Catholic and American :eek: The American culture of today stands more and more against the teachings of the Church, and secular organizations like GSA are following right along in tow.

I guess the real question is…And this probably should be a new thread; Are American Catholics prepared to be a counter culture in America? Catholics are already placed on the Department of Homeland Security top groups to keep under surveillance.
 
I guess the real question is…And this probably should be a new thread; **Are American Catholics prepared to be a counter culture in America? **
It appears that some would say no in denial of all the smoking guns because, after all, the concrete “evidence” isn’t in and you know what they say about judging others unfairly! So we will continue to place our children at risk in favor of giving the other the benefit of a doubt, regardless of the fact that there are wonderful options available which would eliminate even the possibility of jeopardizing our children’s moral health through the culture of death.
 
MODERATOR NOTE

There is a thread in World News to discuss the new Boy Scouts policy. Please stay on the topic of the original post in this thread.
 
There is a much better choice…American Heritage Girls. Any Catholic Church run or sponsored GSA troop should immediately change their affiliation to this group if they wish to be faithful to the teachings of the Catholic Church and not in any way, through fundraisers, or advertising, promote that the Catholic faithful encourage GSA ideals or curriculum.

Our situation was with a local group that was not offered by our parish. We did the research, looked at the curriculum, discussed this with local leadership and group leaders, and decided, based on the results that it was not conducive to raising our children in the faith.
I checked out their website. The closest troop to us is too far away for us to do anything with. I doubt too many parents would jump over to AHG which seems to still be in its fledgling state, but would rather stick with the troop even if it moved to a nearby meeting place (should the parish or archdiocese dump the GSUSA). Remember, our troop is run by members of our parish and if the troop does not conform to or promote the basic tenets of our faith, its our own fault, not the fault of the GSUSA. Like the BSA, GSUSA has local councils that offer support and training. Unlike the BSA, GSUSA is more grassroots, less nationally directed.

GSUSA spokeswoman Michelle Tompkins said, “Each [local] council is a separate 501c3 organization with its own board of directors that is responsible for delivering the programming and membership to Girl Scouts. We can’t stress enough that Girl Scouts is a grassroots volunteer organization that is run mostly by parents in each community. The local volunteers, many in Catholic churches across the country, control what programming the girls receive. Parents, many of whom serve as troop volunteers, are actively engaged in those activities and well aware of what their girls are doing. The notion that a small band of individuals from a faraway place ‘control’ everything the girls see and do is simply fantasy.”

As you know, GSUSA does not promote lechery, abortions, etc to the girls. Because you took the time to research an alternative group to your local GS troop, I’m curious what occurred in your local troop that made you think about switching? What did the leaders do with or say to the girls that made you want to pull your daughter and find an alternative? What about your parish troop? Was your parish troop too secular as well? One of great things about our troop is that if parents find something lacking in the troop, they step forward and lead a program for the girls. For example, we had a mom who was a nurse step forward and teach first aid and safety. Another mom who worked as an office manager talked to the girls about money and savings. Maybe if you thought your troop was too secular, you could have come up with a supplementary program that would have addressed your concern. I’m sure your troop leaders would have loved the fact that you wanted to step up and help the troop. Too many people want to just enroll their kids and then not volunteer to help leaving ALL the work to the leaders. Again, if your GSUSA troop was not conforming and promoting Catholic ideals, it was the fault of your troop leaders & the parents. **Switching to AHG would not have made your troop any less secular or anymore religious than your troop could have been with GS. **

On another note, I am encouraged that our parish will officially accept without reservation openly gay boys into our program (although I don’t think we would have excluded them before the ruling). This ruling however will hopefully encourage gay kids to join. Giving our boys the opportunity to work and play with openly homosexual boys as a team is wonderful. They will learn that homosexuals are no less human than the rest of us and are just as worthy of respect and trust as anyone else. Learning to treat all of God’s children equally will go a long way in defeating the hatred and bigotry we see around us. As our boys grow in scouts with the knowledge through direct experience that homosexual boys are no different than anyone else, the idea that homosexual boys cant continue in scouting as adult leaders will seem ethically and morally wrong to heterosexual scouts. In time, the homophobia of the BSA will be eradicated from within.
 
…As you know, GSUSA does not promote lechery, abortions, etc to the girls. Because you took the time to research an alternative group to your local GS troop, I’m curious what occurred in your local troop that made you think about switching? What did the leaders do with or say to the girls that made you want to pull your daughter and find an alternative? Again, if your GSUSA troop was not conforming and promoting Catholic ideals, it was the fault of your troop leaders & the parents. **Switching to AHG would not have made your troop any less secular or anymore religious than your troop could have been with GS. **
The reason we removed our girls was that my wife was a group leader assistant and moved with our girls from class to class as they progressed through the organization from year to year. Last year when my wife moved on to the 5th/6th grade class she was informed that they would be going on a field trip to Planned Parenthood as part of the curriculum on girls health and that they would openly be discussing contraception with the girls in class. This was part of the curriculum issued by GSA. There was printed teaching materials distributed by GSA to support this. That was enough for us to make up our minds that GSA does not foster our faith ideals.
 
It was part of the public minutes.

They expressed concerns regarding the ‘Journeys’ curriculum, such as positive reviews of the very anti-Catholic play “Simply Maria”, the links to PP\NOW funded sites, etc. The GSUSA gave a ‘mea cupla’ and promised to fix them in the next printing.

And shortly after promising the USCCB to be more prudent, Ms. Chavez gave an interview to *Marie Claire *magazine, a kind of teen Cosmopolitan. The GSUSA had a link to the mag on their website, until several Catholics pointed out that directing young girls to a online copy of a magazine that also featured an article entitled “Anal is the new Oral”, probably was not a good idea. The GSUSA has since taken down the link.

Here is a bit about Ms. Chavez from CNA
catholicnewsagency.com/cw/post.php?id=635
It’s pretty clear that Chavez is a wolf.
It’s hard to believe that the head of the USCCB would be so out of touch with any of this. Of course, the bishop of the diocese of San Bernardino approved renting a diocesan church to the makers of “Behind the Candelabra” for two days of filming. This film was, according to its director, “too gay” even for Hollywood motion picture studios and distributors. According to its star Michael Douglas it would be R-rated if it were theatrically released. However, Bishop Barnes’ spokesman insisted that diocesan officials only read “the last few pages” before approving the transaction. So perhaps Cardinal Dolan and/or his advisors similarly only read “a few pages” and determined there was no problem.🤷
 
It looks like the Catholic Bishops could be starting an investigation. And IMHO, it’s about time. I’ve seen too many reports of the GSA having ties with Planned Parenthood. I get the feeling that for some on this thread that GSA is “just being picked on”…but I for one am just not buying it!
lifenews.com/2012/05/10/bishops-to-investigate-girl-scouts-planned-parenthood-ties/
catholicnewsagency.com/cw/post.php?id=626

Below are just two sites I’ve come across that have huge concerns about GSA. There are just too many sites like these that make the same claims. Are we to believe that they’re just making this stuff up? I just can’t see it! Those of you who have young daughters should give this serious consideration if strong Catholic values are a concern to you as I would hope they would be. Do some research, just google GSA Planned Parenthood and just look at it all for yourself and decide!. If it were my daughter, I would have ***ginormous ***issues with GSA! As I stated earlier, I believe where there’s smoke there’s fire…But I believe I’m starting to see flames now!
100questionsforthegirlscouts.org/100/index.cfm
speaknowgirlscouts.com/

Peace, Mark
 
It appears that some would say no in denial of all the smoking guns because, after all, the concrete “evidence” isn’t in and you know what they say about judging others unfairly! So we will continue to place our children at risk in favor of giving the other the benefit of a doubt, regardless of the fact that there are wonderful options available which would eliminate even the possibility of jeopardizing our children’s moral health through the culture of death.
I would say rather that what she did, and you, is beg the question. The conclusion reached colors all. If the conclusion ends up untrue or exaggerated, then the action taken will be different.

I think for me it was not so much lack of a “smoking gun”, but rather how two events and one relationship were referenced, then re-referenced and then referenced again. The websites that are presenting the same evidence merely link back to each other. In no case did the GSA ever adopt the policy of supporting Planned Parenthood. Quite the opposite, they stated openly they have no partnership with them. My experience with pro-abortion feminists have found them to be pretty much to a man unapologetic about their belief in “choice”. There is also one relationship that has been brought up in the GSA leadership and I do not doubt there is much more. However, this would be a guilt by association fallacy, like saying AHG is political if one found leaders that were both active in that group and the Republican Party. This is something I would actually hope to be true, but I only mention it by way of analogy. This is a guilt by association fallacy. A person can wear more than one hat without it indicating that the hats are related.

The post above mentions Googling. This is precisely why I am hesitant to reach a conclusion. Google has made the adage “where there is some there is fire” to be false in our time. Truthiness is found in frequency, but not truth. Internet frequency only measures interest.
 
This was part of the curriculum issued by GSA. There was printed teaching materials distributed by GSA to support this. That was enough for us to make up our minds that GSA does not foster our faith ideals.
Now that would be a smoking gun. Can you link that on a GSA site? I can’t find it.

In any case, I can see why you bailed on that, that is, if it could not be changed, challenged or blocked. Even then, fighting stuff like that out is not for everyone.
 
The post above mentions Googling. This is precisely why I am hesitant to reach a conclusion. Google has made the adage “where there is some there is fire” to be false in our time. Truthiness is found in frequency, but not truth. Internet frequency only measures interest.
If it weren’t for googling, I’m not sure anyone would even “know” there was an investigation being done by the USCCB. After all, the only evidence there is that that is happening/was going to happen was by googling and finding it mentioned in, I think, one article. So by your logic then, we don’t really know whether that is true either (which by the way no one has responded to my call or email yet; I think that we’re going on a month now).

I see no evidence of any USCCB investigation in to the GSA at all. What does that tell us?
 
Last year when my wife moved on to the 5th/6th grade class she was informed that they would be going on a field trip to Planned Parenthood as part of the curriculum on girls health and that they would openly be discussing contraception with the girls in class. This was part of the curriculum issued by GSA. There was printed teaching materials distributed by GSA to support this. That was enough for us to make up our minds that GSA does not foster our faith ideals.
To put it mildly!
It’s pretty clear that Chavez is a wolf.
It’s hard to believe that the head of the USCCB would be so out of touch with any of this. Of course, the bishop of the diocese of San Bernardino approved renting a diocesan church to the makers of “Behind the Candelabra” for two days of filming. This film was, according to its director, “too gay” even for Hollywood motion picture studios and distributors. According to its star Michael Douglas it would be R-rated if it were theatrically released. However, Bishop Barnes’ spokesman insisted that diocesan officials only read “the last few pages” before approving the transaction. So perhaps Cardinal Dolan and/or his advisors similarly only read “a few pages” and determined there was no problem.🤷
:eek:

I would hope that any future honors the bishops are thinking about giving, would be put on hold until they get to the bottom of this.
I see no evidence of any USCCB investigation in to the GSA at all. What does that tell us?
I would think since this is a matter of morals possibly endangering a great number of girls that it would be a top priority. I like to believe that the bishops are aware and that an investigation is under way. What about a letter writing campaign to them in which direct testimonies could be given, like the one related by GratefulOne. I have heard others state they have seen these printed materials on reproductive health. I would speculate that would be something the bishops could simply not ignore.
 
The websites that are presenting the same evidence merely link back to each other. In no case did the GSA **ever **adopt the policy of supporting Planned Parenthood.
This is simply untrue, but granted, they have changed their tune. You may ignore the fact that in 2004 the GSA CEO stated on several national affiliates, including CNN that GSA had formed a partnership with PP. No need to post the news video again as it is obvious you have discounted it as well. Her statement does beg the question, “what kind of partnership with PP are you engaging in?”

Twice now in this thread the same link has been posted regarding Anna Marie Chavez and her obvious agenda including further biographical notes in the article. I often find the internet untrustworthy as well, but public records do not lie and the office one holds in an organization and the activities they engage in is available for the world to see if some time is taken to engage in research.
Quite the opposite, they stated openly they have no partnership with them.
Of course they will deny the allegations against them and you are free to choose what you wish to believe. I believe our bishops do not have that option without further investigation.
 
This is simply untrue, but granted, they have changed their tune.
Untrue? Your opinion of truth. On the other hand, I will be more willing to change my opinion if you can support this but showing where the GSA has stated this partnership (not someone accusing them or even a CEO making such a statement. I do not believe in the infallibility of CEO’s.
. No need to post the news video again as it is obvious you have discounted it as well. Her statement does beg the question, “what kind of partnership with PP are you engaging in?”
Not really. As I said, Anna Marie Chavez is not infallible and no doubt has an agenda. I do not blame parents that wish to flee her or those that wish to stand against her. The evidence may not be what is in dispute as much as the interpretation of it.
Of course they will deny the allegations against them and you are free to choose what you wish to believe. I believe our bishops do not have that option without further investigation.
Now if you are going to bring the bishops in, may I point out that I seem to be in the minority respecting what Cardinal Dolan did. Of course I would listen to whatever conclusion they reach. Will everyone else do the same?
 
Untrue? Your opinion of truth. On the other hand, I will be more willing to change my opinion if you can support this but showing where the GSA has stated this partnership (not someone accusing them or even a CEO making such a statement. I do not believe in the infallibility of CEO’s.
Today show, 2004, Kathy Cloniger, CEO of Girl Scouts. Transcript
We have relationships with our church communities, with YWCAs, and with Planned Parenthood organizations across the country, to bring information-based sex education programs to girls.
 
Today show, 2004, Kathy Cloniger, CEO of Girl Scouts. Transcript
Thanks for the post, but unfortunately I don’t think it will do any good. Those with blinders on will refuse to see the connection between GSA and PP, even if it is so blantantly evident.
 
Thanks for the post, but unfortunately I don’t think it will do any good. Those with blinders on will refuse to see the connection between GSA and PP, even if it is so blantantly evident.
Blinders? I read the facts as they stand. You call people blind who do not agree with you. Thing not what this means about others but what this says about yourself. I will comment on this one article (again). I will not keep trying to teach this and repeat the same objections.
  1. It is not on a GSA website, so it does not reflect their policy.
  2. It is nine years old (2004). The award given is in 2013.
  3. The lady speaking could be mistaken.
  4. The transcript could be wrong. (it is not though, at least I do not think so)
I do not see why** discontinuing** the partnership by the GSA would justify Cardinal Dolan’s discontinuation of honoring individual Girl Scouts. If anything, he ought to be honoring the decision. I do not go around calling people names (like blind) because they want to cut and run from this conflict. It is one of two good decisions that one can make. However, I do not like being called blind. What did Jesus say about tending to what we perceive as other’s blindness?
 
Blinders? I read the facts as they stand. You call people blind who do not agree with you. Thing not what this means about others but what this says about yourself. I will comment on this one article (again). I will not keep trying to teach this and repeat the same objections.
I don’t care if people agree with me or not. I just want people to objectively look at the facts, and the facts are that GSA has had affilation with Planned Parenthood. And I don’t know why you’re taking this personally since I did not single you out. I wasn’t even responding to your post. I know there are plenty of others that agree with you.
  1. It is not on a GSA website, so it does not reflect their policy.
This proves what exactly? Planned Parenthood doesn’t put the number of unborn babies they murder every year on their website…doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
  1. It is nine years old (2004). The award given is in 2013.
Again, what does this prove? Even if PP stopped performing abortions today, it doesn’t mean I’m going to start giving them my money.
  1. The lady speaking could be mistaken.?
  2. The transcript could be wrong. (it is not though, at least I do not think so)
I think if there was a possibility these were untrue, the GSA would’ve contradicted it immediately and forcefully, especially since many Christians have left the GSA for the American Heritage Girls for this very reason.
I do not see why** discontinuing** the partnership by the GSA would justify Cardinal Dolan’s discontinuation of honoring individual Girl Scouts. If anything, he ought to be honoring the decision. I do not go around calling people names (like blind) because they want to cut and run from this conflict. It is one of two good decisions that one can make. However, I do not like being called blind. What did Jesus say about tending to what we perceive as other’s blindness?
Cardinal Dolan wasn’t honoring individual Girl Scouts, but giving the St. Elizabeth Ann Seton medal to Anna Maria Chavez, a “Catholic” who supports pro-abortion, pro-same sex marriage politicans. CNA did a great article on the ideology of Ms. Chavez here: catholicnewsagency.com/cw/post.php?id=635

As to the teaching of Jesus Christ, I’m not sure what are referring to. I don’t know you personally and would never judge the state of your soul. You may be far holier than I am for all I know; it’s certainly not my place to judge. I’m not even saying Cardinal Dolan committed a sin by doing this. Only God can judge individuals. However, we are called to speak out against public scandal, and the GSA’s affiliation with PP certainly qualifies in that regard. By Cardinal Dolan giving out a medal to a “Catholic” who obviously does not support Catholic teaching and leads an organization that has had ties to PP, the potential of scandal is very grave.

People wonder why the majority of Catholics in America disregard most of the Church’s teachings; well, a major reason is that many of the Church’s leaders have scandalized the faithful by not condemning “Catholic” public figures when they speak out against Catholic teaching.
 
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