Cardinal Dolan: I wouldn't deny communion to Biden

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Maximus1 said:
Trump’s actions are to go on TV and say he has never done anything where he needs to be forgiven. So has never asked God’s forgiveness.
Reconcile that
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so what does this have to do with biden? you think trumps behavior forgives biden’s, how?
Maximus1 said:
You don’t know is a better answer.
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seems SCNow knew somehow to call and ask for confirmation, they contacted both parties. they didn’t say they were contacted by the priest or the priest claimed. confirmed is the key word.
(scnow.com)
Father Robert E. Morey of Saint Anthony Catholic Church confirmed Monday afternoon that he had denied the presidential candidate Holy Communion because of his stance on abortion. Biden, a lifelong Catholic, had attended the church’s 9 a.m. Mass.
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The Biden campaign would not confirm he had attended the church but said if he did attend he did so in a private capacity.
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The SCOTUS will be further removed from abortion rulings if ERA were to be ratified.

Reviving the Equal Rights Amendment to Keep Abortion Legal - Lozier Institute

By Robert Marshall Many Americans think of the Equal Rights Amendment (ERA) as an issue from another era in American history. And so it is – a 22-word amendment to the Constitution first proposed in 1972, fiercely debated, but failing of ratification by the deadlines Congress established...
lozierinstitute.org lozierinstitute.org

I understand they are one state away from final ratification.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
There aren’t any laws going through Congress which would make all abortion illegal.

A direct advocacy position could be a piece of legislation like banning all abortions and the person voted against the bill. But that would have to do with how it’s worded and whether as written, would it stand up before the SCOTUS ?

Trying to get all abortion banned is never going to pass in Congress. Most members of Congress are not going to vote to ban abortion before viability.

Late term abortions have a different response from members of Congress, but again, the wording is important.

Since Roe V Wade, abortion is considered a Constitutional Right. Whether we disagree or not isn’t the point now. Legislators are not going to write a bill which they know will be rejected by the Supreme Court because of the president set by Roe V Wade.
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I don’t think that Canon Law makes a distinction between voting to advance an evil cause (e.g. federal funding for abortion) and voting against outlawing the evil cause (banning abortion).

Whether Joe Biden is voting to (or expressing a desire to) expand abortion, or voting against measures that would restrict it, he is complicit in evil. I also don’t believe that Canon Law makes exceptions to rules based on the likelihood (or lack thereof) that any pro-life bill would pass, so this is irrelevant to the issue.
 
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I believe they gave it 50 years to get ratified. ERA was passed one year before the Roe vs Wade ruling.

The question remains why didn’t the prolifers amend the Constitution when they had the chance instead of foolishly depending on the SC to ban abortions.
 
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Back in the day, I don’t think anyone could imagine that abortion would become legal

Heck, who would’ve thought that a regulation forcing institutions to allow men to enter into girls locker rooms would be made ?
 
Maximus1 said:
Trump was pro-choice until weeks before the GOP primary. So for him pure transactional politics while being A-moral seems to work out. Transactional faith is popular in history.
Truth is I cannot recall a GOP nominee for president who was Catholic and Catholics themselves will Eli Democrats if they can.
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As so many others have asked, what does President Trump have to do with this? He is not Catholic, so he would be turned away anyways.

You’re proving my point that you’re only upset about this for political reasons.
 
The Florence Morning News had a press statement contact from the Father. The day after Mass. Written
 
spiritualsamurai said:
Its definitely besides the point. We don’t elect people for their moral character, but for the policies they will push.
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I said nothing about character. I said Trump would be denied communion. Since the subject of this thread is Biden being denied communion, the comparison is apt. Now if the subject of the thread had been Biden is opposed to laws restricting abortion, that would have been another matter - and not a surprise to anyone. So what new surprising thing is there in the OP of this thread that is relevant to an election? Nothing.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
This article written a while ago but prevalent, explains the controversy within the Church by leaders like Cardinal Dolan

Explainer: When can someone be denied the Eucharist? | America Magazine
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Two quotes pop out:

"For a sin to be manifest, it is not enough that it be public or even notorious; it must also be so habitual that it constitutes an objectively sinful lifestyle or occupation.”

This most certainly applies to Joe Biden. It’s not as if he voted for a pro-abortion measure once or didn’t support an abortion-restrictive measure once. This has become habit for him.

And another quote, this one from Father James Martin S.J.:

“If you deny the sacrament to those who support abortion, then you must also deny it to those who support the death penalty.”

This is a false comparison. Abortion is intrinsically evil. Although the Catechism concerning the death penalty was revised to dissuade its use, the death penalty is not intrinsically evil. So, his argument is false that we would have to treat the two identically.

The article itself says, “Mr. Biden clearly has not been prohibited by church law from receiving the Eucharist, and so it would seem that he “can and must be admitted to holy communion,” according to canon 912.”

The problem here being that Canon 912 is being considered separately from Canon 915. 912 says no one “not prohibited by Church law” should be barred from Holy Communion, and 915 specifies who is “prohibited by Church law”. They begin with the assumption that 912 applies to his case but not 915, which they only attempt to justify by claiming that the Church has failed to “adequately convey essential truths about the sanctity of life”, quoting a 2004 priest. If I recall correctly (I can’t remember where I read it, though- it’s in one of these two threads), Joe Biden himself was warned by a bishop in 2008 that he was transgressing Church teaching with his pro-choice support, so this can’t apply to his case. He has already been counseled, was told it is wrong, and has yet to conform to Church teaching.

Besides this, the article’s argument boils down to “Canon 915 has no place in the Church” because (and I’m paraphrasing) “the Church didn’t successfully teach it was wrong”. Or, as Father Martin once said regarding SSM, the teaching “hasn’t been received” by some of the Faithful.

The article fails to make its stated case.
 
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Thom18 said:
This most certainly applies to Joe Biden. It’s not as if he voted for a pro-abortion measure once or didn’t support an abortion-restrictive measure once . This has become habit for him.
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For the record he only recently stated his opposition to the Hyde Amendment, probably to avoid further attacks from the far left. He already had been under fire for his handling of the Anita Hill hearings and his centrist position on healthcare. Is he likely to change once he survives the Primaries? Who knows? I’m not saying you’re wrong in calling it a habit, it well may be, but I really don’t think the Hyde Amendment as part of the budget process will be going away. Both sides have to agree to it is my understanding.
 
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"For a sin to be manifest, it is not enough that it be public or even notorious; it must also be so habitual that it constitutes an objectively sinful lifestyle or occupation.”

This most certainly applies to Joe Biden. It’s not as if he voted for a pro-abortion measure once or didn’t support an abortion-restrictive measure once . This has become habit for him.
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This is your judgement of Biden, which is not necessarily true. For one, legislation prohibiting abortion hasn’t been put to the vote to the Senate and even if it were, the Senate would be forced to vote against it based on the precedent of the Roe V Wade decision.

So, there is no basis for you to judge that he has been in a state of habitual sin.

What the article shows is that the issue of refusing Holy Communion to politicians is not clear and is controversial even among Church canon lawyers, Cardinals, Bishops and priests, who must follow the authority of their Bishop.

Keep in mind that when Cardinal Burke told Biden and Kerry not to present themselves for Holy Communion, he had no authority to do so. This was up to their Bishops to determine,
 
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Maximus1 said:
I don’t need King Herod metaphors as they add nothing.
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So does repeating “we’re all unworthy.”
Maximus1 said:
Let me ask you this. Trump was asked by Cal Thomas and responded that he ," never asked God for forgiveness." He had nothing to forgive. He was 70 at the time, not a fetus.
He was heavily influenced by his Pastor Vincent Peale.
Now
Have you considered that comparison? You seem awful certain of the moral choice presented.
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He should be denied Holy Communion too for sure.
 
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Just a general reminder that this is a thread about giving and receiving Holy Communion by public figures who are in a position to “give scandal”. Trump bashing and general debate about which political party is more or less deserving, should go into a separate thread.
 
There has been a lot of deflection in this thread. This priest did the right thing. It MAY actually help Biden. I would never vote for Biden or any other liberal, but I think it would be awesome if Joe Biden repented and withdrew his public support for abortion and save his soul in the process.

This priest was also doing his job in protecting the Eucharist, does anyone even care about that anymore? If there were more priests like this one in SC, we wouldn’t be in the mess we are in today.
 
That isn’t the issue or the answer. My post is directed to consequence.
 
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