Cardinal Dolan to Romney, Obama: Pledge to Play Nice

[epan]

IOW…it’s still all Bush’s fault after almost 4 years of an Obama presidency.

That’s okay though…he has 4 years experience at being a failed president, so I’m sure he’ll be much better at being a failed president the next 4 years. We wouldn’t want to throw away all of that failure experience. :whacky:

Perfect. You can’t think back five years. Or you choose not to for your argument.

The economy collapsed under the policies of George W. Bush.

President Obama was foolish enough to take over the presidency with the mess he inherited. He did not create the current financial problem. He inherited it from Mr Bush. Shall I repeat that again? Or do the facts make sense yet.

Sure, I agree with anyone who says that Mr Obama has not been the best president in memory. Certainly, he can’t measure up to Mr Clinton, in spite of his sexual addiction. Thank God that he has been a better president than Mr Bush was. I don’t have high hopes for Predident Obama in his second term. But it is obvious that he is a better choice than Mr. Romney. Sometimes one must settle for the lesser. I will take the mediocre democratic leadership over the mean spirited, greedy and essentially dishonest republican leadership any day.

Vice President Biden may be a buffoon, but a vice president Ryan is mean spirited and cruel. He proposes a $6K voucher for medicare recipients to replace current benefits. I think that there is a commandment about honoring our parents. I highly resent Mr. Ryan’s cruelty.

 

[rlg94086]

Perfect. You can’t think back five years. Or you choose not to for your argument.

The economy collapsed under the policies of George W. Bush.

President Obama was foolish enough to take over the presidency with the mess he inherited. He did not create the current financial problem. He inherited it from Mr Bush. Shall I repeat that again? Or do the facts make sense yet.

Sure, I agree with anyone who says that Mr Obama has not been the best president in memory. Certainly, he can’t measure up to Mr Clinton, in spite of his sexual addiction. Thank God that he has been a better president than Mr Bush was. I don’t have high hopes for Predident Obama in his second term. But it is obvious that he is a better choice than Mr. Romney. Sometimes one must settle for the lesser. I will take the mediocre democratic leadership over the mean spirited, greedy and essentially dishonest republican leadership any day.

Vice President Biden may be a buffoon, but a vice president Ryan is mean spirited and cruel. He proposes a $6K voucher for medicare recipients to replace current benefits. I think that there is a commandment about honoring our parents. I highly resent Mr. Ryan’s cruelty.

Of course I can think back 5 years. The difference between me and you, is that I am not stuck in the past. I can think beyond 5 years ago; recognize the failure Obama has been; and recognize that Romney is a much better choice at recovering from the collapse that happened 5 years ago that hasn’t been improved by the failure in the White House.

 

[epan]

IOW…it’s still all Bush’s fault after almost 4 years of an Obama presidency.

That’s okay though…he has 4 years experience at being a failed president, so I’m sure he’ll be much better at being a failed president the next 4 years. We wouldn’t want to throw away all of that failure experience. :whacky:

Keep in mind that President Bush’s first term was a complete and utter failure. He was unpopular, and judged by economists, academics, historians, social scientists and the press to be an utter failure, far worse than Obama.

Then he created a $trillion+ war. Good idea. Only it did not improve US security.

Then he failed to regulate the lending market. The combination of the trillion dollar war, the lending fiasco, and the increased deficit spending due to tax cuts formed the “perfect storm” and the economy imploded in the first quarter of 2007.

If you forget everything else from this lesson, remember that cutting taxes while increasing spending (the republican fiscal plan), will always end in disaster. Claiming the intent to cut spending, while one increases spending (the republican behavior), is not the same as cutting spending. It is essential dishonesty, especially when the person calling the shots behind the curtain is the former CEO of the major wartime supplier to the US, and the president and his family have extensive holdings there as well.

HOW DISHONEST, GREEDY, CORRUPT, MEAN, UNETHICAL and otherwise despicable does a political party have to be. As long as these black hearted people say that they oppose abortion, certain people support them. As long as they cry out for “religious freedom” which has never been threatened, then they can proscribe our other civil rights. (and Obama did this too by continuing to support the Patriot Act. Sham on him for acting like a republican)

 

[rlg94086]

Keep in mind that President Bush’s first term was a complete and utter failure. He was unpopular, and judged by economists, academics, historians, social scientists and the press to be an utter failure, far worse than Obama.

Listen to yourself…you are defying your own logic.

You believe Bush was a failure in his first term. I’m guessing you voted for him the second time because you didn’t want to waste his 4-years presidential experience and bring in another unknown, right? I’m guessing the answer is “no.”

As to the rest of your rant, I won’t bother. You and voters like ringil have made your stance pretty clear. You believe that Republicans are greedy, cruel, dishonest, unethical, and otherwise despicable. Did I leave anything out?

In your case, you agree that Obama hasn’t been a good president, probably won’t do well next term, and has a buffoon as a vice president. But, your completely off-the-charts hatred for the opposition clouds your ability to reason.

I really don’t see what more there is for us to discuss.

With that sort of attitude, I don’t see how anyone could possibly reason with you.

 

[epan]

Of course I can think back 5 years. The difference between me and you, is that I am not stuck in the past. I can think beyond 5 years ago; recognize the failure Obama has been; and recognize that Romney is a much better choice at recovering from the collapse that happened 5 years ago that hasn’t been improved by the failure in the White House.

I recognize Obama’s failures, and I lament them. He has note been the most effective president.

But imagine the catastrophe if we did not have term limits, and the sheeple re-elected Mr Bush. Unfortunately, I seem Mr Romney as wanting to go back to the Bush Plan, essentially. That is why it is important to remember the recent, and not so recent past. Mr. Romney has made a point that he wants to repeat the policies, but he claims that this time the result will be different.

If you look at the gross federal receipts, it is clear that tax revenues are down. WAY DOWN. Cutting taxes will not increase the revenue. This is one of the essential lies in the republican platform which was introduced by Mr Reagan. Cutting taxes does not increase tax revenue. The Reagan trickle down voodoo theory was that if you cut taxes enough, then the resulting economic stimulus would result in enough growth to net higher tax revenue. The problem with that theory is that the middle class is the economic engine, not the rich. When you cut taxes, the rich get the break. But they don’t spend that money, and they don’t create jobs when their wealth increases due to tax cuts. This is another lie, which was repeated by Mr Romney in his acceptance speech.

If the top economic tier in our economy are indeed the job creators, as Mr Reagan, Mr Bush and Mr Romney claim, then the answer is obvious. They have failed in their job creation, and it is long past due to fire them.

 

[epan]

Listen to yourself…you are defying your own logic.

You believe Bush was a failure in his first term. I’m guessing you voted for him the second time because you didn’t want to waste his 4-years presidential experience and bring in another unknown, right? I’m guessing the answer is “no.”

As to the rest of your rant, I won’t bother. You and voters like ringil have made your stance pretty clear. You believe that Republicans are greedy, cruel, dishonest, unethical, and otherwise despicable. Did I leave anything out?

In your case, you agree that Obama hasn’t been a good president, probably won’t do well next term, and has a buffoon as a vice president. But, your completely off-the-charts hatred for the opposition clouds your ability to reason.

I really don’t see what more there is for us to discuss.

With that sort of attitude, I don’t see how anyone could possibly reason with you.

I did not vote for him in his second term. I was too busy fighting his fabricated war. I held my nose and chose not to vote, because I could not vote for Kerry. I could also not vote for Bush. That disgusted me, not even to have a choice for a competent president.

Maybe we have created a system where nobody who runs for president is competent for the job. It might be time for a revolution, and a rewriting of our constitution.

I would be in favor of the following:

Term limits. No more 99 year old senile senators of congresspeople who have been serving for 70 years because they like the job.

Spending and lobbying limits. A corporation is not a person, and does not have freedom of speech with unlimited budgets to project that speech, until the state of Texas executes a corporation.

Parliamentary representation. If Catholics throw 20% of the vote to Catholic party candidates, then they get 20% of the house. Ditto for atheists. Everyone gets representation. WIth the current two party system, either the republicans get control, and 50% of the country us unhappy, or the democrats get control and 50% of the country is unhappy. Meanwhile, who has control turns on the public opinion manipulation of just a few margin states. That is not representative democracy, as I think of it. In my imaginary world, everyone would be represented in government, whether i agree or disagree with them. Our current system seems to be “winner takes all” and loser “tries to block everything that the winner tries to do”

We can go round and round about whether I am angry (which I am), or whether one incompetent or dishonest politician is more or less incompetent or dishonest than the other, but I think the deeper problem is that our political process has been hijacked, and is not under the control of the voting electorate. That is what needs to be fixed.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

I did not vote for him in his second term. I was too busy fighting his fabricated war. I held my nose and chose not to vote, because I could not vote for Kerry. I could also not vote for Bush. That disgusted me, not even to have a choice for a competent president.

Thank you for your service.

 

[estesbob]

H

The economy collapsed under the weight of republican leadership. That is what put more children on welfare. Repeating those policies would be even more catastrophic now. Mr. Obama has not made as much progress to reverse the republican financial collapse of 2007-2008 as we might like, but he has also been blocked whenever possible by republicans. But we can be sure that continuing the Bush insanity would have driven us in even deeper into worldwide financial collapse. Afterall, those policies created the collapse in the first place. There is a definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over, but expecting a different result. It is insanity to vote for Romney by that definition.

The economy was doing quite fine until the Democrats took over congress in 2006. Obama has been an absolute disaster. I would take Bush and his policies back in a minute. I always wondered what a second term for Jimmy carter would have looked like-now I know.

 

[estesbob]

I did not vote for him in his second term. I was too busy fighting his fabricated war. I held my nose and chose not to vote, because I could not vote for Kerry. I could also not vote for Bush. That disgusted me, not even to have a choice for a competent president.

Maybe we have created a system where nobody who runs for president is competent for the job. It might be time for a revolution, and a rewriting of our constitution.

I would be in favor of the following:

Term limits. No more 99 year old senile senators of congresspeople who have been serving for 70 years because they like the job.

Spending and lobbying limits. A corporation is not a person, and does not have freedom of speech with unlimited budgets to project that speech, until the state of Texas executes a corporation.

Parliamentary representation. If Catholics throw 20% of the vote to Catholic party candidates, then they get 20% of the house. Ditto for atheists. Everyone gets representation.

We can go round and round about whether I am angry (which I am), or whether one incompetent or dishonest politician is more or less incompetent or dishonest than the other, but I think the deeper problem is that our political process has been hijacked, and is not under the control of the voting electorate. That is what needs to be fixed.

I appreciate your service to our country.

 

[epan]

I appreciate your service to our country.

Thank you for saying that. I chose to sign up for the USMC because I believed that our country was attacked. The Marine Corps was good for me. It instilled a sense of honor and duty. (and perhaps some outspokenness, )

But this is not about me at all. Our political system is broken, in my opinion. That our choice is between the two options that we have is very sad. THAT is not what our founders envisioned. We need some diversity, in the real sense, in our political process. I would like to see the Catholic Church form political party which advocates its teachings. If it got 2% of the vote, then it would get 2% of the house. If it got 80%, then so it would go.

If the electorate believed that their individual votes were fairly represented in such a way, then maybe people would vote in their own personal interests, and democracy would be what it is supposed to be.

 

[Jeanne_S]

He put them on welfare? The question was do you remember what happened five years ago? Apparently, amnesia or denial is preferable to accountability and integrity. This is a common human trait, even though a sign of weakness at best, and dishonesty at worst, which is how ethical people characterize the current republican agenda, in my opinion. Why would any decent person embrace the party of human weakness and greed, at best, or denial and dishonesty, at worst? that is the mystery to be answered. It may boil down to the essential moral turpitude of the current republican party, which has duped its constituency by hijacking the religious rights verbiage, but not its actual values. It proclaims a few bullet points, and key issues, like the abortion issue, while double crossing the basic goodness of Christianity by putting greed above all other values, and rejecting social justice.

The economy collapsed under the weight of republican leadership. That is what put more children on welfare. Repeating those policies would be even more catastrophic now. Mr. Obama has not made as much progress to reverse the republican financial collapse of 2007-2008 as we might like, but he has also been blocked whenever possible by

republicans. But we can be sure that continuing the Bush insanity would have driven us in

even deeper into worldwide financial collapse. Afterall, those policies created the collapse in

the first place. There is a definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over, but

expecting a different result. It is insanity to vote for Romney by that definition.



Our economy collapsed in 2007 in the leading sectors. This rippled through to more widespread collapse in 2008. Mr Obama did not assume office until 2009. Why do you blame him for events which occurred 2000-2008? Your point of view seems dishonest to me.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

Thank you for saying that. I chose to sign up for the USMC because I believed that our country was attacked. The Marine Corps was good for me. It instilled a sense of honor and duty. (and perhaps some outspokenness, )

But this is not about me at all. Our political system is broken, in my opinion. That our choice is between the two options that we have is very sad. THAT is not what our founders envisioned. We need some diversity, in the real sense, in our political process. I would like to see the Catholic Church form political party which advocates its teachings. If it got 2% of the vote, then it would get 2% of the house. If it got 80%, then so it would go.

If the electorate believed that their individual votes were fairly represented in such a way, then maybe people would vote in their own personal interests, and democracy would be what it is supposed to be.

Actually our Founders didn’t envision political parties at all.

 

[Carlan]

Keep in mind that President Bush’s first term was a complete and utter failure. He was unpopular, and judged by economists, academics, historians, social scientists and the press to be an utter failure, far worse than Obama.

Then he created a $trillion+ war. Good idea. Only it did not improve US security.

Then he failed to regulate the lending market. The combination of the trillion dollar war, the lending fiasco, and the increased deficit spending due to tax cuts formed the “perfect storm” and the economy imploded in the first quarter of 2007.

If you forget everything else from this lesson, remember that cutting taxes while increasing spending (the republican fiscal plan), will always end in disaster. Claiming the intent to cut spending, while one increases spending (the republican behavior), is not the same as cutting spending. It is essential dishonesty, especially when the person calling the shots behind the curtain is the former CEO of the major wartime supplier to the US, and the president and his family have extensive holdings there as well.

HOW DISHONEST, GREEDY, CORRUPT, MEAN, UNETHICAL and otherwise despicable does a political party have to be. As long as these black hearted people say that they oppose abortion, certain people support them. As long as they cry out for “religious freedom” which has never been threatened, then they can proscribe our other civil rights. (and Obama did this too by continuing to support the Patriot Act. Sham on him for acting like a republican)

I appreciate the balance posters such as yourself and Matt and the few others who show up in these very one sided political forums contribute. I just regret, because of the one sided partisan presence, most finally throw up their arms never to be seen again.
Thank you , I hope you will continue on. Peace, Carlan

 

[epan]

Actually our Founders didn’t envision political parties at all.

haha… see we agree on something. i like that.

yes, my point is that our government is no longer representative, contrary to the original intent.

neither the “right”, nor the “left”, are represented by their respective parties. We have a big problem, which only seems to be getting worse.

When I talk to younger people than myself, and some of my age peers, I fear that we might be headed toward revolution. But when I ponder trying to fix the system, as it is set up now, I don’t see how it can be fixed. Maybe I am just not bright enough to see the solution. But it really troubles me. I don’t want to vote for Obama. I don’t want to vote for Romney. Neither of them represent my values. I would be much happier voting for a libertarian civil rights candidate, who supported true religious freedom, but who was also truly a fiscal conservative who supported human rights and dignity, and therefore was willing to support regulation when it made sense for the public good. Even if he or she only got 1 percent of the vote, as long as my one percenters and myself were represented, I would be much happier, and would feel that I have a voice in our governance. I have no voice when both candidates do not represent my values, and anyone who does would not fit into either of the two monolithic parties.

I believe (naively perhaps) that such a system would have a much better chance of good ideas growing over time, because those ideas would have at least some expression in the political process, and could grow in popularity. Today, there is no diversity of opinion. You choose black, or you choose blacker. If no single party could block or dominate any other, as it is with out two party system, then coalition would be required to advance mutually beneficial interests of the electorate.

Maybe I am wrong, but the time is coming where people may run out of patience. If change is not orderly, then it is very painful. But maybe that is the only choice, given the current trajectory. I don’t really know. But we need some serious change.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Perfect. You can’t think back five years. Or you choose not to for your argument.

The economy collapsed under the policies of George W. Bush.

President Obama was foolish enough to take over the presidency with the mess he inherited. He did not create the current financial problem. He inherited it from Mr Bush. Shall I repeat that again? Or do the facts make sense yet.

Sure, I agree with anyone who says that Mr Obama has not been the best president in memory. Certainly, he can’t measure up to Mr Clinton, in spite of his sexual addiction. Thank God that he has been a better president than Mr Bush was. I don’t have high hopes for Predident Obama in his second term. But it is obvious that he is a better choice than Mr. Romney. Sometimes one must settle for the lesser. I will take the mediocre democratic leadership over the mean spirited, greedy and essentially dishonest republican leadership any day.

What’s with the nonstop “greedy republicans”? Let’s see,Romney didn’t take a salary as governor.He didn’t take a salary after saving the 2000olympics.He donatedALL of his inheritance to CHARITY. He gives16percent of his income to charity.As opposed to Obama who donates a lousy one percent. Biden and Kerry,not even that. Yeah,the Dems are really good about spending other people’s money,pretty tight fisted with their own,however.

Vice President Biden may be a buffoon, but a vice president Ryan is mean spirited and cruel. He proposes a $6K voucher for medicare recipients to replace current benefits. I think that there is a commandment about honoring our parents. I highly resent Mr. Ryan’s cruelty.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Perfect. You can’t think back five years. Or you choose not to for your argument.

The economy collapsed under the policies of George W. Bush.

President Obama was foolish enough to take over the presidency with the mess he inherited. He did not create the current financial problem. He inherited it from Mr Bush. Shall I repeat that again? Or do the facts make sense yet.

Sure, I agree with anyone who says that Mr Obama has not been the best president in memory. Certainly, he can’t measure up to Mr Clinton, in spite of his sexual addiction. Thank God that he has been a better president than Mr Bush was. I don’t have high hopes for Predident Obama in his second term. But it is obvious that he is a better choice than Mr. Romney. Sometimes one must settle for the lesser. I will take the mediocre democratic leadership over the mean spirited, greedy and essentially dishonest republican leadership any day.

Vice President Biden may be a buffoon, but a vice president Ryan is mean spirited and cruel. He proposes a $6K voucher for medicare recipients to replace current benefits. I think that there is a commandment about honoring our parents. I highly resent Mr. Ryan’s cruelty.

Wow,have you od on the kool aid ?

 

[epan]

Listen to yourself…you are defying your own logic.

You believe Bush was a failure in his first term. I’m guessing you voted for him the second time because you didn’t want to waste his 4-years presidential experience and bring in another unknown, right? I’m guessing the answer is “no.”

As to the rest of your rant, I won’t bother. You and voters like ringil have made your stance pretty clear. You believe that Republicans are greedy, cruel, dishonest, unethical, and otherwise despicable. Did I leave anything out?

In your case, you agree that Obama hasn’t been a good president, probably won’t do well next term, and has a buffoon as a vice president. But, your completely off-the-charts hatred for the opposition clouds your ability to reason.

I really don’t see what more there is for us to discuss.

With that sort of attitude, I don’t see how anyone could possibly reason with you.

Do you remember the Mirror headline when Bush was reelected? “How can 59,054,087 people be so DUMB?” It turned out to be prophetic.

Your point is taken that we should not just re-elect utter incompetence, because he or she is in office. We have done enough of that. But it is also true that many presidents have gotten their bearings in the first term, and performed much better in the second. Unlike Mr Bush, Mr Obama is intelligent and educated. He has always lacked other qualifications for the job. But Mr Romney also lacks the qualifications. It is not as if someone were running against Obama who was well qualified. When we think of our former governors who have been elected, we think of Bush, Reagan, Clinton and Carter, none of them stellar presidents, though Reagan has been canonized by those who love tax cuts coupled with expanding government, while claiming to reduce government.

One of the problems is that anyone with a verifiable federal track record cannot be elected to the presidency. Anyone who articulates specific plans cannot be elected to the presidency. Those who are electable are the ones with no past on the national level. Carter, Reagan, Clinton, Bush, Obama… none of them had a national track record. Only George HW Bush had a record of Federal public service. What a surprise, he was a decent president, but a one termer.

 

[epan]

Wow,have you od on the kool aid ?

Sorry. Irrelevant response. Who do you think is drinking kool aid? Maybe too much sugar in your diet.

 

[oldcelt]

Sorry. Irrelevant response. Who do you think is drinking kool aid? Maybe too much sugar in your diet.

Indeed, what people forget is that the expression drink the kool aid came from Jim Jones.

I’ll leave it at that.

John

 

[rlg94086]

Indeed, what people forget is that the expression drink the kool aid came from Jim Jones.

I’ll leave it at that.

John

Yep. Jim Jones. Liberal cult leader. Your point?