Cardinal Dolan's Response to the Al Smith Dinner Backlash

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Cardinal Dolan has dropped the ball on this one. He has undermined the Church’s credibility on the issues of life and religious freedom by providing a platform to President Obama, an act that defies ordinary common sense. No doubt the MSM will exploit this as an endorsement as well. If he lacks the backbone to do the right thing in this instance, one can only wonder how he’ll fold if the mandate stands.
 
Cardinal Dolan has dropped the ball on this one. He has undermined the Church’s credibility on the issues of life and religious freedom by providing a platform to President Obama, an act that defies ordinary common sense. No doubt the MSM will exploit this as an endorsement as well. If he lacks the backbone to do the right thing in this instance, one can only wonder how he’ll fold if the mandate stands.
Fairly harsh words there. What about the Cardinal’s superior, who hasn’t said anything about the Cardinal’s decision? Do you believe he may have dropped the ball also?

What platform has he given to Obama? It’s a non political charity fundraiser.

Wouldn’t if be folding to withdraw the lawsuit the Cardinal filed? You do realize he has filed a lawsuit against this administration, that is still current, even though he has invited both candidates.
 
Cardinal Dolan has dropped the ball on this one. He has undermined the Church’s credibility on the issues of life and religious freedom by providing a platform to President Obama, an act that defies ordinary common sense. No doubt the MSM will exploit this as an endorsement as well. If he lacks the backbone to do the right thing in this instance, one can only wonder how he’ll fold if the mandate stands.
Well said
Annie
 
Fairly harsh words there. What about the Cardinal’s superior, who hasn’t said anything about the Cardinal’s decision? Do you believe he may have dropped the ball also?

What platform has he given to Obama? It’s a non political charity fundraiser.

Wouldn’t if be folding to withdraw the lawsuit the Cardinal filed? You do realize he has filed a lawsuit against this administration, that is still current, even though he has invited both candidates.
As I see it yes the superior has dropped the ball. Hmmmm do you not know that the Al Smith dinner is very famous??? That is the platform his Excellency has given the most pro-abortion politician in history?

Annie
 
As I see it yes the superior has dropped the ball. Hmmmm do you not know that the Al Smith dinner is very famous??? That is the platform his Excellency has given the most pro-abortion politician in history?

Annie
Please tell me what was the messages of the last attendees platforms; or the attendees before that?

Also, was it a mistake for Christ to drink and dine with the sinners of His time?
 
We have reached a very sorry state when it is impossible to carry on civil discourse or share a meal with those who hold opposing views without being painted as a bad Catholic. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
 
We have reached a very sorry state when it is impossible to carry on civil discourse or share a meal with those who hold opposing views without being painted as a bad Catholic. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
I totally agree. People 2000 years ago were scandalized when Christ chose to eat with certain people, but He didn’t flip-flop on his stance against the teachings of the pharisees which he warned the disciples about, or undermine his position, or compromise on His message just because he shared meals with these folks. Likewise, I don’t think we should take Cardinal Dolan’s invitation of Obama as a compromise. Remember, this man in unity with the Bishops was very clear on his stance against the mandate; we must interpret his actions in light of that fact. I think he’s trying to be like the Christ he’s called to model for the world, both holding to the truth and extending grace to those who oppose him.
 
Maybe they could turn it into a roast instead of honoring the two candidates.

Don Rickles is still alive isn’t he? And Jackie Mason? Could be the best ever!
 
Maybe they could turn it into a roast instead of honoring the two candidates.

Don Rickles is still alive isn’t he? And Jackie Mason? Could be the best ever!
The point is not to honor the two candidates, but to raise money for Catholic charitable efforts in a civil, lighthearted atmosphere.
 
I totally agree. People 2000 years ago were scandalized when Christ chose to eat with certain people, but He didn’t flip-flop on his stance against the teachings of the pharisees which he warned the disciples about, or undermine his position, or compromise on His message just because he shared meals with these folks. Likewise, I don’t think we should take Cardinal Dolan’s invitation of Obama as a compromise. Remember, this man in unity with the Bishops was very clear on his stance against the mandate; we must interpret his actions in light of that fact. I think he’s trying to be like the Christ he’s called to model for the world, both holding to the truth and extending grace to those who oppose him.
I agree. And i Hope and pray that Cardinal Dolan will take the opportunity to completely follow Jesus’ example and ask Obama to sin no more:

The Holy Gospel According to St. John; Ch. 8
"[1] And Jesus went unto mount Olivet. [2] And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came to him, and sitting down he taught them. [3] And the scribes and the Pharisees bring unto him a woman taken in adultery: and they set her in the midst, [4] And said to him: Master, this woman was even now taken in adultery. [5] Now Moses in the law commanded us to stone such a one. But what sayest thou?

[6] And this they said tempting him, that they might accuse him. But Jesus bowing himself down, wrote with his finger on the ground. [7] When therefore they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said to them: He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. [John 8:7] [Latin] [8] And again stooping down, he wrote on the ground. [9] But they hearing this, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest. And Jesus alone remained, and the woman standing in the midst. [10] Then Jesus lifting up himself, said to her: Woman, where are they that accused thee? Hath no man condemned thee?

[11] Who said: No man, Lord. And Jesus said: Neither will I condemn thee.** Go, and now sin no more.**"
 
We have reached a very sorry state when it is impossible to carry on civil discourse or share a meal with those who hold opposing views without being painted as a bad Catholic. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
It is not about catching flies, it is about Saving Souls and spreading the True Faith. The propensity of our Bishops to rub shoulders with the leaders of the world has led to many troubles for the Faithful. Our Bishops Must Hold Fast the line of True Faith and teaching as an example to both the Faithful and the World. “Love the Sinner, Hate the Sin” only works when you admonish the sinner for the sin they are committing and preach repentance. Turning a blind eye to the sin merely strengthens the sinner and causes scandal amongst the Faithful.
From the Holy Gospel of St. John; Ch. 15
"[1] I am the true vine; and my Father is the husbandman. [2] Every branch in me, that beareth not fruit, he will take away: and every one that beareth fruit, he will purge it, that it may bring forth more fruit. [3] Now you are clean by reason of the word, which I have spoken to you. [4] Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abide in the vine, so neither can you, unless you abide in me. [5] I am the vine: you the branches: he that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit: for without me you can do nothing.

[6] If any one abide not in me, he shall be cast forth as a branch, and shall wither, and they shall gather him up, and cast him into the fire, and he burneth. [7] If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, you shall ask whatever you will, and it shall be done unto you. [8] In this is my Father glorified; that you bring forth very much fruit, and become my disciples. [9] As the Father hath loved me, I also have loved you. Abide in my love. [10] If you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love; as I also have kept my Father’s commandments, and do abide in his love.

[11] These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and your joy may be filled. [12] This is my commandment, that you love one another, as I have loved you. [13] Greater love than this no man hath, that a man lay down his life for his friends. [14] You are my friends, if you do the things that I command you. [15] I will not now call you servants: for the servant knoweth not what his lord doth. But I have called you friends: because all things whatsoever I have heard of my Father, I have made known to you.

[16] You have not chosen me: but I have chosen you; and have appointed you, that you should go, and should bring forth fruit; and your fruit should remain: that whatsoever you shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. [17] These things I command you, that you love one another. [18] If the world hate you, know ye, that it hath hated me before you. [19] If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. [20] Remember my word that I said to you: The servant is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you: if they have kept my word, they will keep yours also.

[21] But all these things they will do to you for my name’s sake: because they know not him who sent me. [22] If I had not come, and spoken to them, they would not have sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. [23] He that hateth me, hateth my Father also. [24] If I had not done among them the works that no other man hath done, they would not have sin; but now they have both seen and hated both me and my Father. [25] But that the word may be fulfilled which is written in their law: They hated me without cause."

Scripture from drbo.org/index.htm
 
It is not about catching flies, it is about Saving Souls and spreading the True Faith. The propensity of our Bishops to rub shoulders with the leaders of the world has led to many troubles for the Faithful. Our Bishops Must Hold Fast the line of True Faith and teaching as an example to both the Faithful and the World. “Love the Sinner, Hate the Sin” only works when you admonish the sinner for the sin they are committing and preach repentance. Turning a blind eye to the sin merely strengthens the sinner and causes scandal amongst the Faithful.
Now go back and read John 15 again; and prior until you find the exact audience Christ spoke to. He was speaking to His disciples/Apostles. These were not instructions to the multitude; in fact, Christ never gave authoritative instruction to the multitude. The laity today are like the multitude of those times.

Now, does one part of the Gospel ‘wash away’ another part of the Gospel? Are we to ‘pick and choose’ parts of the Gospel that match our personal views?

Christ dined with sinners, spoke about it and it was recorded in the Gospels. Christ said love one another as He loved us. Christ said to love your enemies and do good to them. Christ prayed for forgiveness for those that persecuted Him. His entire message was a message of love. He excluded no one. The very passage you quoted makes the Father the husbandman, not the laity.
 
Now go back and read John 15 again; and prior until you find the exact audience Christ spoke to. He was speaking to His disciples/Apostles. These were not instructions to the multitude; in fact, Christ never gave authoritative instruction to the multitude. The laity today are like the multitude of those times.

Now, does one part of the Gospel ‘wash away’ another part of the Gospel? Are we to ‘pick and choose’ parts of the Gospel that match our personal views?

Christ dined with sinners, spoke about it and it was recorded in the Gospels. Christ said love one another as He loved us. Christ said to love your enemies and do good to them. Christ prayed for forgiveness for those that persecuted Him. His entire message was a message of love. He excluded no one. The very passage you quoted makes the Father the husbandman, not the laity.
I’m sorry, but i thought we were discussing His Eminence Cardinal Dolan and his decision to invite Pres. Obama to the Al Smith Diner? That is what i was referring to. And i am only pointing out that i hope (personal opinion alert) That His Eminence will use this opportunity to ask the Pres. to repent.
You sir have an agenda, and i do not wish to debate you in it. I did not refer to any laity driven ideology. I am simply wishing (personal opinion alert) that our Bishops, Priests and Religious would act like Bishops, Priests and Religious.

"“Who is going to save our Church? Not our bishops, not our priests and religious. It is up to you, the people. You have the minds, the eyes, the ears to save the Church. Your mission is to see that your priests act like priests, your bishops, like bishops, and your religious act like religious.”

----Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen,
before the Knights of Columbus, June 1972
 
I’m sorry, but i thought we were discussing His Eminence Cardinal Dolan and his decision to invite Pres. Obama to the Al Smith Diner? That is what i was referring to. And i am only pointing out that i hope (personal opinion alert) That His Eminence will use this opportunity to ask the Pres. to repent.
You sir have an agenda, and i do not wish to debate you in it. I did not refer to any laity driven ideology. I am simply wishing (personal opinion alert) that our Bishops, Priests and Religious would act like Bishops, Priests and Religious.

"“Who is going to save our Church? Not our bishops, not our priests and religious. It is up to you, the people. You have the minds, the eyes, the ears to save the Church. Your mission is to see that your priests act like priests, your bishops, like bishops, and your religious act like religious.”

----Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen,
before the Knights of Columbus, June 1972
It is about Cardinal Dolan’s decision to invite both candidates to a charity fundraiser.

I believe I responded directly to the points you raised in your post; points that obviously do not deserve a response. That’s unfortunate as I was only offering food for thought on the matter and have no agenda but to try and get people to support the Cardinal.

To say, ‘I hope…that our Bishops, Priests and Religious would act like Bishops, Priests and Religious…’ seems to indicate you have more insight on how they should act, as opposed to their opinions, or the opinion of the Cardinal’s superior. I assumed you were a part of the laity?

The laity should be on watch with our priests, bishops, and religious; however, we should ‘take them to the Church’ if there’s something we question, and not a public forum of any kind, in my opinion. It seems to me that, taking the Cardinal to task publicly can be a part of the scandal everyone seems to be concerned over in reference to the Cardinal’s decision. The Church is authoritative, with an hierarchy set by Christ.

That hierarchy, through the Pope, is that which elevated Cardinal Dolan to his position of Cardinal. That elevation came after his communication with the president on Catholic doctrines.

And finally, let’s not forget the current lawsuit against the administration filed by Cardinal Dolan. There’s not ‘favorites’ being played by him and I accept his explanation of following Christ’s principles.
 
We have reached a very sorry state when it is impossible to carry on civil discourse or share a meal with those who hold opposing views without being painted as a bad Catholic. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
Welcome to CAF! There is an approved opinion here on nearly everything.
 
The Cardinal himself describes the dinner “an evening of positive, upbeat, patriotic, enjoyable civil discourse.” I can just imagine the smiles and general bonhomie of the night – perhaps not exactly conducive to proselytizing in that atmosphere, but oh well. (I really liked the suggestion that maybe Don Rickles could attend, btw.) But since the political arena pervades every facet of our lives today, and since appearances can be deceiving, and since by the mere invitation alone, it is a type of honor, and since the Church is in a fight for her life, I’m going to have to agree with this:
“We cannot pretend for one moment that such an honor at any function promoting the work of the Church doesn’t give legitimacy to their position while harming the Catholic Church’s image.”
Father Shenan Boquet, Human Life Imternational
“The polite putting aside of differences for a while amounts to scandal…….There comes a time when enough is enough and we can no longer afford to give people a reason to doubt our position as a Church,” ………So no, I don’t think the invitation is appropriate at this time.”
Father Frank Pavone, Priests for Life
“Your Eminence, Mr. Obama has a long history with the Catholic Church. From his days as a community organizer working with Catholic churches in Chicago to his current attack on our beliefs, Obama has shown himself to be a shrewd politician with a captivating personality. How else do you explain the fact that, despite his very public support of abortion, contraception, and Planned Parenthood, he received 54 percent of the Catholic vote in 2008?

The question is NOT why you invited Mr. Obama to the dinner. The real question is why he accepted.

I submit to you that the reason he accepted is that he has nothing to lose. The Al Smith Foundation website touts that, at the 2008 dinner, Obama displayed “wit, wisdom, warmth, and wile.” I am sure the author of those words thought he was being totally complimentary, but the fact is that he was very accurate. Synonyms for “wile” are, of course, “hoax,” “ploy,” “scam,” and “deception.”

I believe Mr. Obama sees the 2012 Al Smith dinner as an opportunity to, once again, use his wiles to entice the Catholics in America to “trust” him----a trust that he has betrayed time and time again.”
Judie Brown, President
American Life League
 
I love these “Polly-Annish” defenses of the Cardinal’s unfortunate decision - from the “flies and honey” nonsense (how well has that approach worked with Biden, Sebelius, & Pelosi??) to the aping of the Cardinal’s own presumptuous comparison of himself to Christ eating with sinners…really? This is a failure of leadership, which seems to be the most “collegial” characteristic of the hierarchy in America today - if there is a more ineffectual group with millions of adherents behind them, please point them out to me, I’d love to know .

It is naïve to think that the HHS mandate decision was well intended but simply ill-conceived or that its consequences to religious freedom were unforeseen; rather, the intent was to undermine the Catholic Church’s position from the start. They have an agenda and they know how to stick to it, while the Cardinal is sending out a mixed message. Even after being misled by the President concerning an exemption, the Cardinal still seems more pre-occupied with civil discourse. If the intent of the dinner is simply to raise money for charity, surely this could be accomplished without the President’s “star power” - if not, we are in bigger trouble than I thought!

Finally, the Cardinal’s defender’s better hope (as I do) that his lawsuit is successful, because if it is not, his mettle will truly be tested…and getting that right will be a lot more challenging than this Al Smith dinner fiasco .
 
I absolutely support standing united behind our Cardinal regardless of his decision (as, I’m sure, most who are opposing this dinner also do). That doesn’t mean, however, that we can’t respectfully point out a potential tactical error when we see one. 🙂
I couldn’t agree more! Cardinal O’Connor would not invite Clinton in '96 for his EXACT SAME STANCE on abortion. And then Clinton had not pulled half of what this President has. Maybe Cardinal Dolan thinks somehow this will soften the President’s stance on the Mandate. I am not at all sold on that idea, especially since Bishop Lori and his Committee has met with the Administration several times without one ounce of satisfaction. He says they just will not give an inch, even after the Committee has offered many solutions.

I really think with all due respect (and I do respect Cardinal Dolan a great deal!) he is sending a very very confusing message to Christians. Even certain Protestant groups are bewilldered by this.

Continue to PRAY.
 
To quote (take your pick - Sun-Tzu, Machiavelli, or Michael Corleone):

“Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.” The Cardinal is a very smart man.
 
I just want to say I admire Cardinal Dolan an awful lot, as our spiritual leader he has a great responsibility, didn’t he ask us for our prayers concerning this issue. Didn’t someone in the Gospel ask Jesus why he ate with sinners? It seems to me given tne choice Cardinal Dolan had, he leaned to the side of Charity. I think we can learn a lesson from this mans courage, and maybe by his example he can reach even Mr. Obama. Cardinal Dolan I pray for you, and by your example you can soften the heart of Mr. Obama and all the the evil culture of death in this world.:gopray2:
 
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