Cardinal Dolan's Response to the Al Smith Dinner Backlash

[JoeBowen7]

We need to look at the earliest Christians for the example. That’s just my opinion.

OK. I did not mean to take this off topic.

 

[yukonbrad]

You have no idea what tyranny is if you think that the United States government is a tyranny.

Some people have no clue how blessed they truly are. I grew up in Northern Ireland and even that pales in comparison to any sort of tyranny. I have even seen references made to the holocaust on this very site. Such ignorance may point to the deplorable state of education ( I would be retisent to mention the war of 1812 and what Canadian militia did to the origional White House it would blow thier minds) but still, one would expect someone raised in the faith of the Catholic church would know better.

 

[Seeker1961]

Some people have no clue how blessed they truly are. I grew up in Northern Ireland and even that pales in comparison to any sort of tyranny. I have even seen references made to the holocaust on this very site. Such ignorance may point to the deplorable state of education ( I would be retisent to mention the war of 1812 and what Canadian militia did to the origional White House it would blow thier minds) but still, one would expect someone raised in the faith of the Catholic church would know better.

American Christians have a love affair going with being victims. It’s appalling when you know what happens to Christians In other countries.

 

[MidnightSun12]

How was it bad for Christ to dine with sinners? It’s the same thing…

Christ didn’t dine with sinners. He tried to save their souls while he happened to be sharing a meal with them. And there most certainly wasn’t a photo-op…

People see the division; challenging a decision made by a man of the Church that evidently is operating with the confidence of the Pope…

Any divisions that exist have been around long before this event. Exposing divisions are the first step to fixing them!

Besides, there is absolutely nothing wrong with challenging the Cardinal’s decision here:
"Canon Law 212 Section 3:

According to their knowledge, competence and prestige which they possess, [the Christian faithful] have the right and even at the times the duty to manifest to the sacred pastors their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church and to make their opinion known to the rest of the Christian faithful

Where did Christ qualify doing good to them that hate you? He didn’t.

We cannot justify an evil action with the intention of bringing about a positive outcome. Whatever moral good this dinner will do for Obama does not justify the scandal that will be created by front-page photo’s of Obama attending a Catholic charity dinner with a prominent Cardinal.

Seeker1961:

American Christians have a love affair going with being victims. It’s appalling when you know what happens to Christians In other countries.

I think those persecuted christians would have pretty strong words for those of us Catholics who are luke-warm towards a US president who wants to start the legal persecution of Catholics in America.

 

[Seeker1961]

Christ didn’t dine with sinners. He tried to save their souls while he happened to be sharing a meal with them. And there most certainly wasn’t a photo-op…

Any divisions that exist have been around long before this event. Exposing divisions are the first step to fixing them!

Besides, there is absolutely nothing wrong with challenging the Cardinal’s decision here:

We cannot justify an evil action with the intention of bringing about a positive outcome. Whatever moral good this dinner will do for Obama does not justify the scandal that will be created by front-page photo’s of Obama attending a Catholic charity dinner with a prominent Cardinal.

I think those persecuted christians would have pretty strong words for those of us Catholics who are luke-warm towards a US president who wants to start the legal persecution of Catholics in America.

Can you please describe the laws that this administration has passed that come anywhere in the neighborhood of what is going on in China, the Middle East or any other country where Christians literally pay for their faith with their lives?

Paying for birth control pills is not the same thing…it’s still upsetting and it’s still against what our church believes, but it’s not threatening our ability to express our faith or worship as we choose. We can still use our votes and our voices to speak out about what our Church teaches and to place people in office that will respect our beliefs more.

There are people all over this planet that would be eternally grateful for the opportunities we have and we need to remember them when we get worked up over our own issues.

 

[ipwnuathalo2]

Ok, it was a bad decision. Maybe it tells us something about Dolan, maybe not.

It’s done. None of us can do anything about it, and none of our opinions about the good Cardinal matter at all.

So, I see no reason to keep thinking about it.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Christ didn’t dine with sinners. He tried to save their souls while he happened to be sharing a meal with them. And there most certainly wasn’t a photo-op…

Any divisions that exist have been around long before this event. Exposing divisions are the first step to fixing them!

Besides, there is absolutely nothing wrong with challenging the Cardinal’s decision here:

We cannot justify an evil action with the intention of bringing about a positive outcome. Whatever moral good this dinner will do for Obama does not justify the scandal that will be created by front-page photo’s of Obama attending a Catholic charity dinner with a prominent Cardinal.

I think those persecuted christians would have pretty strong words for those of us Catholics who are luke-warm towards a US president who wants to start the legal persecution of Catholics in America.

Christ did ‘mingle’ with publicans and sinners. He did give His commandments in a clear concise way.

But, I feel there is nothing can be said. People are digging and spinning scriptures and Church teachings to make them support a political view. That’s what this is all about; politics. There is such contempt for another side and the poor Cardinal is being caught up in it.

There’s nothing wrong with questioning a man of the Church. What’s going on in these forums surpasses questioning and gives a much poorer example than any concern being espoused towards the Cardinal. People have placed themselves above the Cardinal. People have no right to assume an authority upon themselves.

 

[Tigg]

And what would be in our best interest? To give our enemies “proof” of how “unchristian” we are to fuel thier propoganda machine?! What Cardinal Dolan has done is to show the world that we are better, more loving, more compasionate, less vindictive and narrow minded than those who oppose us or seek to destroy us. That while our opponents may stoop to petty political games we will not lower ourselves to that level. Unless that is what you would prefer us to do.

You know, the Venerable Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen is one of my all-time favorites. He spoke much about false compassion and false charity and how true charity is not a “species of sloppy sentiment” and further in his teachings he said real love involves real hatred for anything that opposes Truth. (his words, not mine!)

I ask all who are angered by the Cardinals actions to read the post just above by Prodigal Son1. These are Christs’ words and instructions to US. Are you suggesting the words of Christ are not relevant? We can not simply pick and choose what we are supposed to do and what instructions to follow based on our own personal whims and feelings. Being Catholic is not an easy task and we are not perfect but to fail to follow such clear and concise instruction seems to fly in the face of our belief.

The problem with picking out scripture at random to bolster our own opinion is that the bigger picture is often ignored and one might even find a passage or two, that after prayerful consideration, would draw one into a greater truth.

 

[Tigg]

You do realize that Cardinal Dolan is on the forefront of the battle against the HHS mandate, don’t you?

WHICH is exactly why this invitation is a mixed message and open to mis-interpretation by the faithful.

 

[Joe_5859]

WHICH is exactly why this invitation is a mixed message and open to mis-interpretation by the faithful.

I think it’s only open to misinterpretation if one wants to misinterpret it. Cardinal Dolan explained it all pretty clearly. I’m not confused.

Has anyone heard any comment from anybody that legitimately thinks Cardinal Dolan is supporting Obama because of this invite? I think sometimes we get so worked up about potential scandal that we don’t stop to take a look around and see if anyone is actually scandalized.

To me, the bigger scandal is all the Catholics who are insulting the Cardinal and questioning his motives. Such actions sow the seeds of distrust in our shepherds and convey the sentiment that their actions must meet our approval in order to be authentically Catholic. That’s far more damaging than this dinner (which everyone will have forgotten about the next day) ever could be.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

The problem with picking out scripture at random to bolster our own opinion is that the bigger picture is often ignored and one might even find a passage or two, that after prayerful consideration, would draw one into a greater truth.

I am willing to read the ‘bigger picture’, if you’re willing to provide it. Christ did not qualify an enemy to be excluded. Christ’s entire message was a message of compassion and forgiveness.

In my opinion, the greater truth being presented to justify usurping an authority to correct an authoritative man of the Church is spin, at best. Our faith is being turned into a legalistic system for the purposes of everyone that wants to invite themselves as an authority to do so. Christ did not set up the hierarchy that way. He set men over the Church; men He explained everything to, while only speaking parables to the multitudes. Christ told them whatsoever they bound or loosed would be so in heaven. Christ told them when two or more met, He would be with them. He said He would be with the men of the Church until the consummation of the world. He promised that not even the gates of hell would prevail against His Church.

Where did He ever tell the multitude to ‘protect’ His Church; as if He did not have the power to do so?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

WHICH is exactly why this invitation is a mixed message and open to mis-interpretation by the faithful.

What message is being open through the example of publicly challenging a man of the Church?

The Cardinal is on the forefront of opposing the administration, with the approval of his superior.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I think it’s only open to misinterpretation if one wants to misinterpret it. Cardinal Dolan explained it all pretty clearly. I’m not confused.

Has anyone heard any comment from anybody that legitimately thinks Cardinal Dolan is supporting Obama because of this invite? I think sometimes we get so worked up about potential scandal that we don’t stop to take a look around and see if anyone is actually scandalized.

To me, the bigger scandal is all the Catholics who are insulting the Cardinal and questioning his motives. Such actions sow the seeds of distrust in our shepherds and convey the sentiment that their actions must meet our approval in order to be authentically Catholic. That’s far more damaging than this dinner (which everyone will have forgotten about the next day) ever could be.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Besides, there is absolutely nothing wrong with challenging the Cardinal’s decision here:

Please show me scriptures, or Church documents, that instruct the faithful to challenge a man of the Church through public media?

 

[Tigg]

In my opinion, the greater truth being presented to justify usurping an authority to correct an authoritative man of the Church is spin, at best. Our faith is being turned into a legalistic system for the purposes of everyone that wants to invite themselves as an authority to do so. Christ did not set up the hierarchy that way. He set men over the Church; men He explained everything to, while only speaking parables to the multitudes. Christ told them whatsoever they bound or loosed would be so in heaven. Christ told them when two or more met, He would be with them. He said He would be with the men of the Church until the consummation of the world. He promised that not even the gates of hell would prevail against His Church.

Who on this thread are you accusing of trying to usurp the Cardinal’s authority and what can I say to answer this bit of over-reaction which has not already been posted (at least once?) We may charitably question the prudential judgments of clergy, based upon our competence (it really is in the Catechism.) And did someone say the Church is not indefectible? I must have missed that post.

Where did He ever tell the multitude to ‘protect’ His Church; as if He did not have the power to do so?

Straw Man!
We are called to live our faith in its fullness, to bring others to salvation and to defend the good according to our abilities. To not do so, in certain particular circumstances, would be a sin of omission. (Do NOT read something into this that isn’t there!)

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Can you please describe the laws that this administration has passed that come anywhere in the neighborhood of what is going on in China, the Middle East or any other country where Christians literally pay for their faith with their lives?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Who on this thread are you accusing of trying to usurp the Cardinal’s authority and what can I say to answer this bit of over-reaction which has not already been posted (at least once?) We may charitably question the prudential judgments of clergy, based upon our competence (it really is in the Catechism.) And did someone say the Church is not indefectible? I must have missed that post.

Please show me where we are instructed to question the prudential judgments of the clergy through public media?

Straw Man!
We are called to live our faith in its fullness, to bring others to salvation and to defend the good according to our abilities. To not do so, in certain particular circumstances, would be a sin of omission. (Do NOT read something into this that isn’t there!)

Please show me where Christ commanded us to protect His Church. I’m sure you know the scriptures I referenced about Christ’s promises.

Christ is the one who commanded to do good to them that hate you and to love your enemies. There was no exclusion to any circumstance.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

But, I feel there is nothing can be said. People are digging and spinning scriptures and Church teachings to make them support a political view. That’s what this is all about; politics.

I’ve posted the same opinion on the National Catholic Register comments board. Politics, all politics.

There is such contempt for another side and the poor Cardinal is being caught up in it.

There’s nothing wrong with questioning a man of the Church. What’s going on in these forums surpasses questioning and gives a much poorer example than any concern being espoused towards the Cardinal. People have placed themselves above the Cardinal. People have no right to assume an authority upon themselves.

That is what is being done. “Get back at the Cardinal - stop giving to the Church,” “Let the world know what bad decisions Dolan makes,” and similar remarks.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I’ve posted the same opinion on the National Catholic Register comments board. Politics, all politics.

That is what is being done. “Get back at the Cardinal - stop giving to the Church,” “Let the world know what bad decisions Dolan makes,” and similar remarks.

They are spinning everything they can to justify ‘correcting the Cardinal’. We are to approach our clergy with concerns, and possibly the other faithful; nowhere are we instructed to make that approach through public media, including the secular and non-believers. There’s the scandal in my personal opinion.

This is all about politics, yet Christ’s kingdom is not political, or democratic even.

 

[Tighty_Whitey]

American Christians have a love affair going with being victims. It’s appalling when you know what happens to Christians In other countries.

What exactly does this attack on America Catholics have to do with this issue? So you dislike American Catholics, you might want to talk to your priest about that.