Cardinal Marx: Church should see positive aspects of homosexual relationships [CWN]

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It sounds like we need to be more adept at articulating the bigger “yeses” behind the “no’s.” And in a sound byte culture, too.

What is the beauty behind the Church’s understanding regarding sexuality? That is what we must get good at deftly expressing, in the same breath as the “no’s.”
 
. US Catholics seem to have more in common on this issue and others with Russian Orthodox rather than many of their brothers and sisters in Western Europe.
 
Blue_Horizon said:
Zz by declining to engage you I am not meaning to be unmerciful.
Your affinity for not understanding the real issues in discussion here is such that you are not in the race and I am not sure how to even guide you into the stadium sorry.
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You rude and condescending insult is noted. It seems a pathetic way to avoid uncomfortable discussion points.
 
Blue_Horizon said:
Rarely have I seen a statement so at odds with Catholic Moral Theology or sentiment.
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Relativism at its finest. Its now ok to live in a state of mortal sin as long as you love each other! But you keep believing in relativism. I’ll keep believing in what the church has taught for 2000 years.
 
Don_Ruggero said:
Originally Posted by zz912 View Post
I wonder if a reporter has asked the bishop why he feels a Muslim terrorist attack is a call for the Catholic community to combat Catholic anti-gay prejudice that supposedly exists but had no impact whatsoever on this terror attack? And I wonder if someone has asked him why it is not a call for the Muslim community to combat Muslim anti-gay prejudice?

Why does the bishop of Orlando feel the need for the Catholic community to gather around and embrace our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters in Orlando? Because fifty of our brothers and sisters were killed, some of whom were part of that community and others of whom were in fact not.

But, as the bishop has said – and you don’t need a reporter to ask him, if you are taking the time to follow yourself his statements…and that of the other bishops in the United States and beyond – there is a particular need for the Church to better and more effectively connect with this segment of the population.

Cardinal Marx has said this. The Pope has said this. And other members of both the College of Cardinals and the College of Bishops are saying this with a growing chorus of voices.

And the Bishop of Orlando, as the shepherd of the diocese and the spiritual father of the Particular Church entrusted to him, decided – as is HIS prerogative – that standing with and supporting the suffering of that specific community was the Church of Orlando’s priority, its duty and its obligation. And he is the Father of the Church of Orlando, the father of the Family of God made of Orlando’s Clergy, Religious and laity.
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Your post was about the bishop of San Diego. My post was in relation to that. I have no idea what the bishop of Orlando has to do with your post or my response.
The Church is not helping the victims with any regard to whether they are members of the Church or not. The Church is helping them through its offices – “with financial assistance, with case management, and with other supportive help” – because they our brothers and sisters and they are in need of our love and our assistance and our embrace in this moment.
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No one is arguing this point.
 
Blue_Horizon said:
D’oh boy 🤷.
It’s called paraphrase PN.
But I can see that trying to discuss things with one whose imagination is so shackled to the literal that even the clear double entendres of Jesus fly overhead means it’s better not to try. You must hate poetry.

Clearly you have no gay friends to give you a better perspective on the variety of gay relationships that exist in the real world…just like heteros.
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Insulting other posters and using the Appeal to Authority logical fallacy is a poor way to argue your point.
 
JosieN said:
How is it at odds with Moral Theology or sentiment? Please explain for those of us not familiar with Moral Theology.
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"Sex is the only thing that matters to God. " That was what was said. That phrase is what Blue is referring to.
Do you think sex is the only thing that matters to God?
 
philipl said:
It may very well be a small part to them, but to God it’s the only thing that matters. Sex outside of marriage is a mortal sin. There is no exceptions. Since marriage can only be between a man and a woman, gay couples can not be married.

Couples living together are also guilty of a mortal sin, that is if they are sexual active.

Same thing with remarried catholics [sic] that havent [sic] been through the annulment process if required.
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Quite inaccurate, while part of the relationship is sinful, the relationship isn’t intrinsically so as sex is not necessarily part of it, whereas for example in an adulterous affair the sex is an intrinsic part of it and while ceasing to be sexual could make it no longer sinful that fundamentally changed the relationship there whereas for a same sex relationship it does not fundamentally change the relationship. There is more to love than getting married and having babies.
TCEL said:
It sounds like we need to be more adept at articulating the bigger “yeses” behind the “no’s.” And in a sound byte culture, too.

What is the beauty behind the Church’s understanding regarding sexuality? That is what we must get good at deftly expressing, in the same breath as the “no’s.”
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Indeed, now, what are the things to say yes to?
Peccavi said:
. US Catholics seem to have more in common on this issue and others with Russian Orthodox rather than many of their brothers and sisters in Western Europe.
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I disagree, the Catholic Church in the US AFAIK has never condone violence against LGBT people whereas in Russia chunks of the Russian Orthodox Church have.
 
graciew said:
"Sex is the only thing that matters to God. " That was what was said. That phrase is what Blue is referring to.
Do you think sex is the only thing that matters to God?
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No, but if you go read the entire post instead you will see that I wrote about sex outside of marriage and why sexual relationships outside of marriage is a mortal sins. The teaching of the church as all ways been that sex outside of marriage is a mortal sin. There is no exceptions to this teaching. There is no positive aspect of ANY couple or any one involved in sex outside of a marriage.
 
philipl said:
No, but if you go read the entire post instead you will see that I wrote about sex outside of marriage and why sexual relationships outside of marriage is a mortal sins. The teaching of the church as all ways been that sex outside of marriage is a mortal sin. There is no exceptions to this teaching. There is no positive aspect of ANY couple or any one involved in sex outside of a marriage.
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I read it.
And no one disputes the teaching.
From there to say that it is the only thing that matters to God,there is a stretch.
It is good to draw closer to God,However it is kind of diffficult to help people walk by breaking both their legs.
No matter how wretched we are,there may be that little beam to rescue.
If you were wounded and a person stopped to help you,would you ask if they are in a.relationship or accept help and give thanks for their kindness?
 
graciew said:
I read it.
And no one disputes the teaching.
From there to say that it is the only thing that matters to God,there is a stretch.
It is good to draw closer to God,However it is kind of diffficult to help people walk by breaking both their legs.
No matter how wretched we are,there may be that little beam to rescue.
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A mortal sin is a mortal sin. You can not have any good come from it. There is no except to this teaching. To say that any sex outside of marriage can be tolerated because if we dont they may not be drawn closer to God is beyond ignorant. They are being lead down a path to hell.
 
philipl said:
A mortal sin is a mortal sin. You can not have any good come from it. There is no except to this teaching. To say that any sex outside of marriage can be tolerated because if we dont they may not be drawn closer to God is beyond ignorant. They are being lead down a path to hell.
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No…that is not what I am saying,. Phil.
I wasn t dropped like trash nor praised in my faults,were you?
 
philipl said:
When I was wrong, my parents let me know it. They didnt tolerate bad behavior.
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Neither did mine.
How would they teach you?

At home it was not only what they said but how they lived it. And we were close,so though what they said might annoy me,I knew they loved me and even before I was born. That they loved me,was.never in questión for me.
How about you,Phil?
 
philipl said:
No, but if you go read the entire post instead you will see that I wrote about sex outside of marriage and why sexual relationships outside of marriage is a mortal sins. The teaching of the church as all ways been that sex outside of marriage is a mortal sin. There is no exceptions to this teaching. There is no positive aspect of ANY couple or any one involved in sex outside of a marriage.
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I don’t think the Church teaches this. Pre-marital sex may be always wrong in every circumstance but the people that have pre-marital sex can still do good. I can’t imagine why sex nullifies everything else the person does in their life.

Correct me if I’m wrong but you seem to be equating the sinner with the sin.
 
philipl said:
Relativism at its finest. Its now ok to live in a state of mortal sin as long as you love each other! But you keep believing in relativism. I’ll keep believing in what the church has taught for 2000 years.
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PL the problem is you don’t seem to understand what “the Church has taught for 2000 years.”
Would you like to define for us “state of mortal sin” for example.
 
J_Peterson said:
I don’t think the Church teaches this. Pre-marital sex may be always wrong in every circumstance but the people that have pre-marital sex can still do good. I can’t imagine why sex nullifies everything else the person does in their life.

Correct me if I’m wrong but you seem to be equating the sinner with the sin.
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Hard not to when the modern trend is to advertise your sexuality loud and long . I do not think anyone denies that good people do bad things. Hard to separate sinner from sin when the person in this case denies that there is sin.
 
Rosebud77 said:
Hard not to when the modern trend is to advertise your sexuality loud and long . I do not think anyone denies that good people do bad things. Hard to separate sinner from sin when the person in this case denies that there is sin.
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That’s an even greater reason to separate the sin from the sinner. A mortal sin requires full knowledge of the matters sinfulness. Personally I think that disbelief is a form of ignorance. You don’t choose to believe in things and you can’t expect people to pretend to believe. As far as we know they haven’t “seen the light” yet. Assuming they “saw the light” and rejected it is not very charitable.
 
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