Catholic and Democrat?

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Wondering Waif:
The reason that Mother Teresa didn’t subscribe to the the teach a man to fish theory of charity was that it doesn’t work with all cases, welfare is very complicated.
Waif
Actually, she said something along the lines of, “That is very good. Go teach them to fish! That is not my calling.” Her calling was to feed those too sick to learn to fish, too hungry to hold a pole. Once they were on their feet, she said she was happy to send them on to your fishing school, though.
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spacecadet:
i think a better question is

Why aren’t more Catholics or anyone for that matter Independents? And Why aren’t more politicians independents? The whole 2 party system does our country a great disservice. I am waiting for a candidate that is truly pro-life from conception to NATURAL death, cares about helping the poor and family values.

the two parties are opposite extremes. that is how satan works with divisive extremism
My theory is that Americans have an unspoken addiction to winning. At present, we would rather vote for the “lesser of two evils” in the hopes that that one will win. Voting for a positive good that can’t win is a “thrown away” vote.

The problem is that both parties know this. They bank on the idea that they just have to figure out what this year’s “trump card” or “winning suit” is going to be among the “social conservatives” and “religious voters”. Once they’ve bagged that, it is on to courting those who are after money or liberty without responsibility or who just want some governmental regulations that make a little more sense, for crying out loud, whoever–that is, the voters who demand results. What’s more, the two parties don’t have to do anything for the “faithful.” They just have to talk a better talk and complain about the other side dragging their feet. “Look at all the ground we’re losing! You can’t leave us now!” **Yes! Both Republicans and Democrats make failure the reason that people of conscience should vote for them again! **I don’t know if they realize we’re all signed on for the ultimate in delayed gratification, or what, but I think they have our number.

The other tack taken by the two parties is to paint the pursuit of money or civil liberty as being “without responsibility” per se. You can’t defend liberties or capitalism in a way that either could possibly be misused, or you are in bed with “The Man” or the “greedy rich” or “the perverts” or the “baby killers” or you name it. If both sides are not playing their cards so as to just leave all the inconveniently religious people shouting each other down while government goes on without them, I’d not be surprised. There are still some good politicians out there, but for the most part, you can’t be in politics without having read Machiavelli.

I think it is high time that the Christians went back to the prophetic ministry of tilting at windmills. After all, it isn’t the government that we are interested in winning. It is souls. If you have to give up the latter to get the former, the choice should be clear.

I’m registered Democrat, in the hopes that I’ll be able to choose some good people in the primaries locally, to support moderate candidates over extreme ones. If I don’t like the Democratic candidate that they come up with, I feel free to cross lines or to vote Independent or for anyone else running in the general election. After all, the Presidential primaries are always a foregone conclusion by the time they get here.

But that is a stance that is undergoing some examination. In all likelihood, I’ll have to do a “pre-vote selection” to decide which party I want to be in for any given election, if either. What a pain! Ah, well, having a big chunk of the voters shifting party for each election could shake things up and also encourage a third party that I’d find more palatable. If the effort gets the parties to scrambling, that could be a good thing.
 
I dunno, even if I were republican, I dont think I could bring myself to vote Bush… given is intelligence level. Regardless of politics, I firmly believe that stupidity is more dangerous.

Abortion? What about the deaths in Iraq? What on earth are we doing there?
 
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Urf:
I dunno, even if I were republican, I dont think I could bring myself to vote Bush… given is intelligence level.

Regardless of politics, I firmly believe that stupidity is more dangerous.
Please give a citation for his IQ.

Truth is he did better in all his degrees at Yale than John Kerry.

Besides, this is very uncharitable thing to say about anyone, regardless of who he is.
Abortion? What about the deaths in Iraq? What on earth are we doing there?
The # is not even comparable to one year of innocent deaths in this country.

1.5 million children die per year in this country alone. How many have died in Iraq? No where near that many in the four years we’ve been over there.

–Ann
 
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Urf:
I dunno, even if I were republican, I dont think I could bring myself to vote Bush… given is intelligence level. Regardless of politics, I firmly believe that stupidity is more dangerous.

Abortion? What about the deaths in Iraq? What on earth are we doing there?
So sad-so filled with hatred that you sit back and condone the killng of 1.3 million children a year. It apears that Bush, unlke the Democrat party, knows the value of life.

BTW-the Iraq war is Bush’s greatest achievment.Through his policies and reslove we have bought democracy to two countres and 10s of millions of people in a region where Democracy has nevr been know0-nd we did it with a miniscule number of casualties.

In the past when we were attacked the Demcorats called lawyers-When Bush was on watch we finally took action. I could not be more proud of our Commander in Chief. We are blessed to have him in the White House. God Bless George Bush!
 
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Sparky:
Please give a citation for his IQ.

Truth is he did better in all his degrees at Yale than John Kerry.

Besides, this is very uncharitable thing to say about anyone, regardless of who he is.
The truth hurts. You think he would have gotten into Yale if his father hadnt been president? The man can hardly put a grammatically correct sentence together. I was appaled by the way he acted during the debates. He’s not a very smart man, I’m sorry if you cant see that.
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estesbob:
So sad-so filled with hatred that you sit back and condone the killng of 1.3 million children a year. It apears that Bush, unlke the Democrat party, knows the value of life.
That would explain why the death penalty is still around. Open your eyes.
BTW-the Iraq war is Bush’s greatest achievment.Through his policies and reslove we have bought democracy to two countres and 10s of millions of people in a region where Democracy has nevr been know0-nd we did it with a miniscule number of casualties.
Give me a break. When we’re out of there and the Democracy is still supported and in effect, I’ll let you say that.
 
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Urf:
The truth hurts. You think he would have gotten into Yale if his father hadnt been president? The man can hardly put a grammatically correct sentence together. I was appaled by the way he acted during the debates. He’s not a very smart man, I’m sorry if you cant see that.

That would explain why the death penalty is still around. Open your eyes.

Give me a break. When we’re out of there and the Democracy is still supported and in effect, I’ll let you say that.
1.3 million dead a year vs perhaps a 100 a year executed-and you think they are moraly equivalent. Like I said you are so flled with with hate you cant even put together a coherent argument.

Goerge Bush wil go down as one of the great Presidents in History. He made the tough choices, He had been stedafast and resolved and becuase of his leadership the Middle East will be transformed.
 
estesbob said:
1.3 million dead a year vs perhaps a 100 a year executed-and you think they are moraly equivalent. Like I said you are so flled with with hate you cant even put together a coherent argument.

Goerge Bush wil go down as one of the great Presidents in History. He made the tough choices, He had been stedafast and resolved and becuase of his leadership the Middle East will be transformed.

Since when was the lesson in the bible “choose the lesser of 2 evils?”

And… 100 a year executed? I’m done here.
 
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Urf:
Since when was the lesson in the bible “choose the lesser of 2 evils?”

And… 100 a year executed? I’m done here.
You came in, offered not one argument other than Bush is “stupid” and then left in a pout. My frend you were :done" before you posted your first sentence.
 
PLAL said:
ABORTION HAS KILLED 36% OF THE U.S. BLACK POPULATION!

According to the U.S. Census bureau, there were 36 million blacks in the United States in 2002. If 13 million black children had not been killed by abortion, the black community would now number 49 million – it would be 36 percent larger. Abortion has killed over one-third of the black community in the last 32 years.

For More Information & Stats Read this Article

wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46674

This reminds me of the Lesbian who tried to convince me her position was correct by comparing her issues to issues of black people. She didn’t give a rats arse about black people, she was just using OUR issues to further her cause. You are doing the same thing.

In a choice between aborted fetuses and the large number of black children living in poverty, I choose the live children living in poverty. During the 8 years of the Clinton Administration, the number of ALL children living in poverty decreased, we a had a lower unemployment rate, and there was job growth. And, the percentage of African Americans making into the middle class increased. During the first 4 years of the Bush administration, we have lost jobs, alienated our allies, and had operatives within the administration OUT a CIA agent. THIS is why I vote democratic and will continue to do so!
 
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Fitz:
Why, because you assume the black babies would be Democratic? I don’t think that trend is going to stay stable. There are many new black politicians that are waking up and leaving the party that ignores them except to make sure they have the right to choose death for their babies or to keep the poor on welfare.
And really, your perspective isn’t any better. You accuse the Democratic party of taking black votes for granted; but you reveal your patronizing attitude toward black people. You are suggesting that the “new” black politicians are somehow better because they oppose the policies that many black people support–as if we are not capable of deciding what is best for the majority of us.
 
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smartblkchick:
This reminds me of the Lesbian who tried to convince me her position was correct by comparing her issues to issues of black people. She didn’t give a rats arse about black people, she was just using OUR issues to further her cause. You are doing the same thing.

In a choice between aborted fetuses and the large number of black children living in poverty, I choose the live children living in poverty. During the 8 years of the Clinton Administration, the number of ALL children living in poverty decreased, we a had a lower unemployment rate, and there was job growth. And, the percentage of African Americans making into the middle class increased. During the first 4 years of the Bush administration, we have lost jobs, alienated our allies, and had operatives within the administration OUT a CIA agent. THIS is why I vote democratic and will continue to do so!
The old ,tired “better dead than underfed” argument. Child poverty dropped becuase of the welfare reform act of 1996 -pushed through by a republican congress. During Clintons term 10 million babies were slaughtered with hs and eviently your full suport Bu it was all wotth it, you seem to say,becuase a few less kids went hungry…
 
estesbob said:
1.3 million dead a year vs perhaps a 100 a year executed-and you think they are moraly equivalent. Like I said you are so flled with with hate you cant even put together a coherent argument.

Goerge Bush wil go down as one of the great Presidents in History. He made the tough choices, He had been stedafast and resolved and becuase of his leadership the Middle East will be transformed.

If only bad grammar were his only fault.

George Bush, put in a position where he could personally prevent executions, failed to do so. In fact, he failed to sign a bill into law that would have made it against the law to execute the mentally retarded. He refused. Our catechism states “if bloodless means are sufficient to defend human lives against an aggressor and to protect public order and the safety of persons, public authority should limit itself to such means…” which both the State of Texas and the United States of America have the ability to do.

In other words, Mr. Bush may be anti-abortion–and frankly, even there I am not terribly impressed–but it is a stretch to consider him pro-life.

Currently, he is in a position to forbid torture. He won’t do that. He wants the option. Our catechism teaches that “Torture which uses physical or moral violence to extract confessions, frighten opponents, or satisfy hatred is contrary to respect for the person and for human dignity.” It goes on to say that working to end it is necessary. We need to be opposing this.

He will not go down in history as one of the great Presidents. He will rank well behind his father. He routinely ignores the advice of his military commanders. He openly seeks ways to circumvent the Geneva Conventions. He failed to plan appropriately for resistance after the change of regime in Iraq. The photo-op in front of the “Mission Accomplished” banners–and don’t think I don’t remember how proud a moment that was at the time!–will go down in history as ample evidence of that bout of short-sightedness. “Bring 'em on”, indeed. Even if one agrees that Iraq need invasion, one would be hard-pressed to imagine that there wasn’t a more intelligent, prudent way to have done it. He could not have even secured the infrastructure and government buildings from looting? Please.

Instead of spending his “political capital” after the election, as he said he intended to do, he has squandered it. He has run up a new deficit in a fantastically short time, yet clings to tax cuts, shifting our spending onto our children’s shoulders. He promise to fix Social Security proved absolutely impotent. (For which I am thankful.) I am at a loss to think of a domestic initiative he has executed well.

He has utterly squandered the world-wide support he had after 9/11. He has answered objections to his strategies not with well-reasoned arguments, but with demands that we equate blind loyalty with patriotism. He has treated our allies with similar disrespect. There could not be a greater contrast to the masterful way in which his father orchestrated the first Gulf War than the ham-handed manner in which he has chosen to execute the second.

He has placed his political supporters in high positions, even if they had no resume to back up his choice. They have failed him, and he has rewarded them more often than he has chastened them. His nomination of Harriet Meiers for the Supreme Court will go down in history as one of the most inexplicable choices ever made, unless you cynically mark it down as mere cronyism.

In matters of national defense and security, I cannot think of a President in my lifetime that I trust less to tell the truth and do what morality dictates over that whispered by expediency, including Mr. Nixon and Mr. Clinton.

So if you’re ready to give Mr. Bush carte blanche and kudos as being among the great Presidents for his having given lip service to abortion prevention, have at it. I think we could have done far better, had we other choices among the living than the last two elections gave us.
 
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smartblkchick:
And really, your perspective isn’t any better. You accuse the Democratic party of taking black votes for granted; but you reveal your patronizing attitude toward black people. You are suggesting that the “new” black politicians are somehow better because they oppose the policies that many black people support–as if we are not capable of deciding what is best for the majority of us.
Actually I don’t accuse anyone of anything. I suggest that there is a high percentage of black babies aborted, and that is not OK with me. I also suggest that many black politicians are finding room in the the Republican Party. I was just listening to one such person on the radio today. aarcofillinois.com/ I am not being patronizing to African Americans. I suggest that the Democratic Party can’t continue to take minority votes for granted. That is not my view, but one I have read over and over again in the papers. Black people are capable of voting as individuals and not as a block. I think there is a change happening and I am stating it. No patronization intended.
 
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BLB_Oregon:
. Our catechism states “if bloodless means are sufficient to defend human lives against an aggressor and to protect public order and the safety of persons, public authority should limit itself to such means…” which both the State of Texas and the United States of America have the ability to do.
Actually, neither Texas or the United States have the ability to protect the people from dangerous aggressors.

We don’t have breech-proof prisons, just last week a death row inmate escaped in Texas. And inside the prison walls, there isn’t any way to protect the other inmates from dangerous aggressor types. Murders aren’t unheard of behind the walls of the penitentiaries which are very violent places, and lifetime solitary confinement probably isn’t allowed under our laws forbidding such a cruel punishment.
 
I skimmed through the thread, and didn’t see it but may have overlooked it; has anyone discussed the issue of “Catholic” politicians such as Kerry? Examples such as this only add to the confusion our religion has politically. (would REALLY like to address the witholding of the eucharist…)

It is no wonder our religion has lost it’s party afiliation over the years. All catholics were democrats before Abortion and other such issues took the field, and the Chuch simply didn’t come out of the transition period cleanly. It’s a mess and isn’t likely to change any time soon…
 
. All catholics were democrats before Abortion and other such issues took the field
That’s not true, there were a decent number of Catholic Republicans before Roe v Wade, although you’re right if you say that there were more after than before, although abortion wasn’t the only reason.

Senator Joseph McCarthy was among the most notable but there were others.
 
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Kielbasi:
Actually, neither Texas or the United States have the ability to protect the people from dangerous aggressors.

We don’t have breech-proof prisons, just last week a death row inmate escaped in Texas. And inside the prison walls, there isn’t any way to protect the other inmates from dangerous aggressor types. Murders aren’t unheard of behind the walls of the penitentiaries which are very violent places, and lifetime solitary confinement probably isn’t allowed under our laws forbidding such a cruel punishment.
"The nature and extent of the punishment ought not to go to the extreme of executing the offender, except in cases of absolute necessity: in other words, when it would not be possible otherwise to defend society. Today, however, as a result of steady improvements in the organization of the penal system, such cases are very rare if not practically nonexistent."

The Gospel of Life, John Paul II, 1995


I think our late and beloved Holy Father did take the time to educate himself on the practical aspects of this issue, as was his practice.

Even if the United States were unable to defend society from some death row inmates, I think she could manage to successfully incarcerate the mentally retarded.

To return to the thread: there are those in the Democratic Party who think it more important to vote for someone who actually accomplishes something on a serious issue of lower magnitude than to do a great deal of talking about a serious issue of greater magnitude.

As for me, I’m not happy with either party, but I can see good reasons that a Catholic might hope to reform each. I don’t see it happening, but I can imagine a person of good will wanting to.

In my mind, there is nothing better than the state of politics in our own lifetime, in every country, to remind us that we live in a vale of tears. Live always to bring about the Kingdom of God in whichever way you can, but don’t fool yourself into thinking that any party will bring about Heaven on Earth.
 
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BLB_Oregon:
If only bad grammar were his only fault.

George Bush, put in a position where he could personally prevent executions, failed to do so. In fact, he failed to sign a bill into law that would have made it against the law to execute the mentally retarded. He refused. Our catechism states “if bloodless means are sufficient to defend human lives against an aggressor and to protect public order and the safety of persons, public authority should limit itself to such means…” which both the State of Texas and the United States of America have the ability to do.

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Ignorance abounds. The Governor of Texas has no power to commute a death sentence-at the most he can grant a 30 day stay. I know this becaue I have lived in Texas for 25 yers and have been active in the anti-death penalty movement in Texas- I have attended many candle light prayer vigills in Huntsville on nights executions took place. I also, BTW, counsel in a crisis pregnancy center. What I dont do is suppot people who support abotion-period.

It is a disapointment to me that neither Bush nor my Church opposes the death penalty. However your trying to equate the execution of 100 or so convicted murderers a year with the wanton slaughter of 1.3 MILLION children a year is specious… What we see in your posts is a desperate attempt to rationaize your support for this wanton slaughter of the innocents. I dont think you realize how foolish you look to Catholics who adhere to the Church’s teahings.

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I don’t have TV (by choice after my daughter was born) so I would like to be educated.

What is Bush actively doing to overturn Roe vs Wade?

Does anyone speculate that Roe vs Wade will be overturned during the Bush administration?
 
An afterthought…

President Bush made such a hoop-la about social security. I wish he would make such a hoop-la about abortion.

What about the birthcontrol pill? It causes abortions. If Roe vs. Wade is overturned will they have to stop the dispensing of the bc pill.
 
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