Catholic Belief Regarding the Judgement of a Jew

[VivaCristoRey27]

I personally believe that Anne Frank, the young Jewish woman who wrote a diary while in hiding and then was found (and no one will probably know WHO gave them away), and sent to a concentration camp, is in Heaven. She was a martyr for God.

A martyr is someone who dies for the Catholic Faith. Anne Frank was murdered by a brutal regime, yes, but she did not die in defense of the Catholic Faith.
CCC 2473:

Martyrdom is the supreme witness given to the truth of the faith: it means bearing witness even unto death. The martyr bears witness to Christ who died and rose, to whom he is united by charity. He bears witness to the truth of the faith and of Christian doctrine. He endures death through an act of fortitude. “Let me become the food of the beasts, through whom it will be given me to reach God.”[St. Ignatius of Antioch]

You may believe that she is in Heaven, that God revealed the true religion to her prior to her death and she converted, that is not forbidden. But that should not lead you to not pray for her soul, as we should not presume that someone is in Heaven unless they are a canonized saint.

We have to remember that the Jews were the first to hear God’s word.

Quite true:
Rom 1:16:

For I am not ashamed of the gospel. For it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth, to the Jew first, and to the Greek.

Mt 10:5-6:

These twelve Jesus sent: commanding them, saying: Go ye not into the way of the Gentiles, and into the city of the Samaritans enter ye not. But go ye rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

But what did they do when the Word of God came to them?
Mt 21:33-41:

Hear ye another parable. There was a man an householder, who planted a vineyard, and made a hedge round about it, and dug in it a press, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen; and went into a strange country. And when the time of the fruits drew nigh, he sent his servants to the husbandmen that they might receive the fruits thereof. And the husbandmen laying hands on his servants, beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.

Again he sent other servants more than the former; and they did to them in like manner. And last of all he sent to them his son, saying: They will reverence my son. But the husbandmen seeing the son, said among themselves: This is the heir: come, let us kill him, and we shall have his inheritance. And taking him, they cast him forth out of the vineyard, and killed him. When therefore the lord of the vineyard shall come, what will he do to those husbandmen?

They say to him: He will bring those evil men to an evil end; and will let out his vineyard to other husbandmen, that shall render him the fruit in due season.

Jn 8:37-47:

I know that you are the children of Abraham: but you seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and you do the things that you have seen with your father. They answered, and said to him: Abraham is our father. Jesus saith to them: If you be the children of Abraham, do the works of Abraham. But now you seek to kill me, a man who have spoken the truth to you, which I have heard of God. This Abraham did not.

You do the works of your father. They said therefore to him: We are not born of fornication: we have one Father, even God. Jesus therefore said to them: If God were your Father, you would indeed love me. For from God I proceeded, and came; for I came not of myself, but he sent me: why do you not know my speech? Because you cannot hear my word. You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and he stood not in the truth; because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. But if I say the truth, you believe me not.

Which of you shall convince me of sin? If I say the truth to you, why do you not believe me? He that is of God, heareth the words of God. Therefore you hear them not, because you are not of God.

It is true that Christ first came to the Jews, but they rejected Him. God left the Jewish Temple as soon as Christ’s Perfect Sacrifice was complete:
Mt 27:50-51:

And Jesus again crying with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. And behold the veil of the temple was rent in two from the top even to the bottom, and the earth quaked, and the rocks were rent.

Lk 21:5-6:

And some saying of the temple, that it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said: These things which you see, the days will come in which there shall not be left a stone upon a stone that shall not be thrown down.

That happened when the Romans laid siege to Jerusalem in AD 70 and set up the abomination of desolation in the holy place (that is, the idol of Jupiter in the Jewish Temple) and then proceeded to destroy the whole thing. Having abandoned the true Faith and since God allowed their Temple (which had been the center and foundation of the true Jewish religion) to be destroyed, the remaining Jews decided to create a new religion, the religion of the Talmud.

Only those Jews according to the flesh who have become Christians accept God’s Word. Those who are atheists/humanists (and make up a sizable percentage) or practice the neo-Jewish Talmudic religion have rejected the Word of God and so have rejected God.

In order to be saved, Jews – just like everyone else – have to turn to God and His Holy Catholic Church and be baptized (at least by desire).

He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned.

 

[VivaCristoRey27]

I can understand why you might think there are no Jews, Muslims, Mormons, or Hindus in heaven (even though I emphatically disagree), since none of these groups believe in the divinity of Jesus and the Holy Spirit. But now you are also denying Protestants: Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists, etc. who do believe in the Trinity? I’m not Catholic but I’m almost certain this notion is against Church teaching.

There are no false religions in Heaven. Baptist-ism, Lutheranism, Methodism, etc. are false religions. They may have more in common with the true religion than (Talmudic) Judaism, Islam or Hinduism or even Mormonism but that doesn’t make them not false.

An individual may be raised and live their life as a practitioner of a false religion or even as an atheist and convert to the Catholic Faith on their deathbed. But there are no false religions in Heaven. A person may live their life as a Muslim or a Presbyterian on earth but if they get to Heaven, they are Catholic because the Catholic Faith is the singular Truth. This conversion of mind and heart must happen prior to death because after death, the timer is up and our free will is bound to our disposition at the time of death.

It is true that the Trinity is the principle doctrine of the Catholic Faith but one cannot haggle with God – someone cannot say, “I will accept this teaching of Yours but not this other one” for example, “I will believe in the Trinity but I will not believe that homosexuality is evil” or “I will accept the Divinity of Jesus Christ but I will reject the fact that the Catholic Church is His Mystical Body”. You either have to accept everything that has been revealed to you by God and live in accord with that or you do not accept God.

Now, it happens that God reveals Himself more to one person than to another, which is part of the mystery of predestination. A person has to accept what God reveals to him and not be guilty of mortal sin in order to be saved. What is a Protestant? A Protestant is a person who has (usually) been baptized into the Catholic Church but who persists either in heresy or error. It is really no different than someone who persists in heresy or error but calls themselves Catholic. The name doesn’t matter, it’s the reality of the thing. As long as a person accepts the truth that God reveals to them, seeks the truth and rejects sin, they can be saved because they are Catholic. The fullness of the True Faith will be revealed to them when they behold Truth Himself. But such a one is not saved a Jew or a Presbyterian or a Baptist, but rather as a Catholic.

 

[VivaCristoRey27]

I’m not upset, merely chatting about people trying to sell what we don’t need - and neither do they.

GK Chesterton:

Modern masters of science are much impressed with the need of beginning all inquiry with a fact. The ancient masters of religion were quite equally impressed with that necessity. They began with the fact of sin – a fact as practical as potatoes. Whether or no man could be washed in miraculous waters, there was no doubt at any rate that he wanted washing. But certain religious leaders in London, not mere materialists, have begun in our day not to deny the highly disputable water, but to deny the indisputable dirt. Certain new theologians dispute original sin, which is the only part of Christian theology which can really be proved. Some followers of the Reverend R. J. Campbell, in their almost too fastidious spirituality, admit divine sinlessness, which they cannot see even in their dreams. But they essentially deny human sin, which they can see in the street. The strongest saints and the strongest sceptics alike took positive evil as the starting-point of their argument. If it be true (as it certainly is) that a man can feel exquisite happiness in skinning a cat, then the religious philosopher can only draw one of two deductions. He must either deny the existence of God, as all atheists do; or he must deny the present union between God and man, as all Christians do. The new theologians seem to think it a highly rationalistic solution to deny the cat.

.

 

[Kristin234]

There are no false religions in Heaven. Baptist-ism, Lutheranism, Methodism, etc. are false religions. They may have more in common with the true religion than (Talmudic) Judaism, Islam or Hinduism or even Mormonism but that doesn’t make them not false.

Well then the Catholic Church needs to tell their members to stop calling Protestants “brothers and sisters in Christ.” If what I follow is a false religion then why is it okay for Catholics to say I am their sister in Christ? I don’t call people who practice other religions my brothers or sisters in Christ.

 

[Warrior1979]

I like to keep it simple…God is not going to break his promise to the Jews.

 

[meltzerboy]

There are no false religions in Heaven. Baptist-ism, Lutheranism, Methodism, etc. are false religions. They may have more in common with the true religion than (Talmudic) Judaism, Islam or Hinduism or even Mormonism but that doesn’t make them not false.

An individual may be raised and live their life as a practitioner of a false religion or even as an atheist and convert to the Catholic Faith on their deathbed. But there are no false religions in Heaven. A person may live their life as a Muslim or a Presbyterian on earth but if they get to Heaven, they are Catholic because the Catholic Faith is the singular Truth. This conversion of mind and heart must happen prior to death because after death, the timer is up and our free will is bound to our disposition at the time of death.

It is true that the Trinity is the principle doctrine of the Catholic Faith but one cannot haggle with God – someone cannot say, “I will accept this teaching of Yours but not this other one” for example, “I will believe in the Trinity but I will not believe that homosexuality is evil” or “I will accept the Divinity of Jesus Christ but I will reject the fact that the Catholic Church is His Mystical Body”. You either have to accept everything that has been revealed to you by God and live in accord with that or you do not accept God.

Now, it happens that God reveals Himself more to one person than to another, which is part of the mystery of predestination. A person has to accept what God reveals to him and not be guilty of mortal sin in order to be saved. What is a Protestant? A Protestant is a person who has (usually) been baptized into the Catholic Church but who persists either in heresy or error. It is really no different than someone who persists in heresy or error but calls themselves Catholic. The name doesn’t matter, it’s the reality of the thing. As long as a person accepts the truth that God reveals to them, seeks the truth and rejects sin, they can be saved because they are Catholic. The fullness of the True Faith will be revealed to them when they behold Truth Himself. But such a one is not saved a Jew or a Presbyterian or a Baptist, but rather as a Catholic.

Thank you for being polite and civil in your discussion and disagreement with me. That is always appreciated! However, I must say, to paraphrase Shakespeare, you out-Catholic Catholicism. In other words, you are superimposing an idea (perhaps held by many hard-core Catholics of the past and some of the present) that, to my knowledge, does not exist in the Catholic Church. While the Church much prefers one to be Catholic, and in particular Roman Catholic, to receive the full and absolute Truth, it simply does NOT deny Protestants access to Heaven on this basis. Belief in the Trinity, probably the Sacrament of Baptism, AND the moral practice of one’s faith in the course of one’s daily life, in part so that one does not die in mortal sin, are the dogmatic and doctrinal requirements. However, belief in ALL of the doctrines, practices, and customs of the Catholic religion, while most desirable, is NOT a requirement for salvation. If you believe in the Catechisms and Papal authority, this is the Church teaching.

 

[meltzerboy]

Sometimes I wish I had invincible ignorance too.

P.S.-Don’t get upset, I am just taking a friendly light jab just like you.

Don’t be too regretful, Hail_Linus. You DO have invincible ignorance! (Also a friendly jab.)

 

[VivaCristoRey27]

Well then the Catholic Church needs to tell their members to stop calling Protestants “brothers and sisters in Christ.” If what I follow is a false religion then why is it okay for Catholics to say I am their sister in Christ? I don’t call people who practice other religions my brothers or sisters in Christ.

Are you Baptized? If so, you are a member, at least on the very basic level, of the Catholic Church. Since you were born-again in Christ as a child of God, that makes you and I brother and sister in a special way that is not the same as with an unbaptized person. We all share that intimate bond of baptism.

You also have to understand what is meant by “false religion”. If I am to testify in court, I swear to tell “the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth”. Anything that doesn’t fulfill those criteria is false. All non-Catholic religions do not fulfill those criteria. You may accept 99% of Catholic teachings but you don’t accept all of them or adulterate them with false teachings. A Muslim may only accept 5% of Catholic teachings and adulterates them with many false teachings. So both Protestantism (of any denomination) and Islam are false religions, but the Protestant is much, much closer to the Truth.

However, the Catholic Faith is not about a list of arbitrary teachings, it’s about a Person. Jesus Christ founded the Catholic Church and entrusted the Gospel to Her so that it may be spread to the ends of the earth. Once we accept that, everything else is easy because no one can change the Catholic Faith – you either accept it or you don’t and it hasn’t changed for 2000 years and will never change. This is because it’s not a matter of opinion, it’s a matter of what Christ revealed.

You are on a Catholic forum and so it seems that you are either here to attack the Catholic Faith (as some people seem to be) or because you are open-minded to finding the Truth. I hope and pray I am correct in assuming that it is because of the latter.

Here is what St. Augustine says:
St. Augustine:

The Apostle Paul has said: “A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject, knowing that he that is such is subverted and sins, being condemned of himself.” [Tit 3:10-11] But though the doctrine which men hold be false and perverse, if they do not maintain it with passionate obstinacy, especially when they have not devised it by the rashness of their own presumption, but have accepted it from parents who had been misguided and had fallen into error, and if they are with anxiety seeking the truth, and are prepared to be set right when they have found it, such men are not to be counted heretics.

If I am a witness in court, as I said above, and I say something that is not true there are three reasons – 1) I am intentionally lying; 2) I am ignorant but I should have known better; or 3) I am ignorant but not guilty of not knowing better. Those who broke away from the Catholic Church to start the various non-Catholic Christian sects are much more culpable for their error than those who simply have been brought up in Protestant homes and countries, ignorant of the teachings of the Catholic Faith and often times told many lies about the Catholic Faith and the Church by those who want to perpetuate ignorance of the Truth.

Seek God with an open-heart. He will not give you a stone when you ask for bread. If you pray to learn the truth, to grow closer to Jesus, you will. God desires that no one would be lost.

God bless!

 

[Insight]

I can understand why you might think there are no Jews, Muslims, Mormons, or Hindus in heaven (even though I emphatically disagree), since none of these groups believe in the divinity of Jesus and the Holy Spirit. But now you are also denying Protestants: Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists, etc. who do believe in the Trinity? I’m not Catholic but I’m almost certain this notion is against Church teaching.

That’s the problem. One of the purposes of the Catholic Church is to Evangelize; to win people over to the Catholic Faith. The story I posted regarding the Nun was an attempt to point out that arrogant self-righteous pompous Catholics do the opposite, they drive away potential converts. Going around telling everyone who is not Catholic is going to hell and suffer eternal torment (including poor Anne Frank, the little girl murdered in the Nazis concentration camps) creates anger and hostility.

I have several friends who are Jewish converts to Catholicism. Each one was converted by Protestants first, they seem to have a very effective outreach to Jews. Eventually they became Catholic. Personally I think it is a calling. G-d may be calling you to remain Jewish. I also have a Jewish friend who writes for Messiahtruth.com. There is no way you are going to convince him that Jesus is the Messiah, we have fun friendly debates, but I know I’m not getting anywhere. I don’t think there even is a Catholic outreach to Jews, although he claims that there is.

G-d Bless

 

[VivaCristoRey27]

I like to keep it simple…God is not going to break his promise to the Jews.

God didn’t break His promise to the Jews, the Messiah came and fulfilled the promises and prophecies about Him given to the Jews. The Jews just did not recognize the time of their visitation.
Lk 19:41-44:

And when he drew near, seeing the city, he wept over it, saying: if thou also hadst known, and that in this thy day, the things that are to thy peace; but now they are hidden from thy eyes. For the days shall come upon thee, and thy enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and straiten thee on every side, and beat thee flat to the ground, and thy children who are in thee: and they shall not leave in thee a stone upon a stone: because thou hast not known the time of thy visitation.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...hing_Slaying_Burning_Chemical_reactions_b.jpg

 

[Insight]

God didn’t break His promise to the Jews, the Messiah came and fulfilled the promises and prophecies about Him given to the Jews. The Jews just did not recognize the time of their visitation.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...hing_Slaying_Burning_Chemical_reactions_b.jpg

Simply ingenious, that will certainly win over a lot of Jews. I wonder what the Protestants are doing right?

God Bless

 

[meltzerboy]

That’s the problem. One of the purposes of the Catholic Church is to Evangelize; to win people over to the Catholic Faith. The story I posted regarding the Nun was an attempt to point out that arrogant self-righteous pompous Catholics do the opposite, they drive away potential converts. Going around telling everyone who is not Catholic is going to hell and suffer eternal torment (including poor Anne Frank, the little girl murdered in the Nazis concentration camps) creates anger and hostility.

I have several friends who are Jewish converts to Catholicism. Each one was converted by Protestants first, they seem to have a very effective outreach to Jews. Eventually they became Catholic. Personally I think it is a calling. G-d may be calling you to remain Jewish. I also have a Jewish friend who writes for Messiahtruth.com. There is no way you are going to convince him that Jesus is the Messiah, we have fun friendly debates, but I know I’m not getting anywhere. I don’t think there even is a Catholic outreach to Jews, although he claims that there is.

G-d Bless

There are certain aspects of Protestant denominations I admire, but overall I’m rather turned off by Protestant attempts at evangelizing Jews. On the other hand, I’m an admirer of Billy Graham and even attended one of his meetings. But most of the Protestant Evangelicals (particularly the televangelists, but not limited to them) I find too forceful in their presentation. I would imagine that the Jews whom they are successful in converting are not very secure in their own faith. Although I have no intention of converting to any other religion, if I did so it would probably be to either Catholicism or Quakerism, since I greatly admire both religions. I am also interested in Hinduism, but more as an intellectual curiosity than a faith I would practice, even though I find much wisdom in it.

 

[LOCO]

I don’t think there even is a Catholic outreach to Jews, although he claims that there is.

G-d Bless

Hello Insight,

Catholics are not allowed to seek to ‘convert Jews’. The Holy Father stated this again recently. They are the ‘chosen people’ and God will reveal to them in his own time.

 

[VivaCristoRey27]

Thank you for being polite and civil in your discussion and disagreement with me. That is always appreciated!

You are welcome. It is important to me to be as rational as possible in these sorts of discussions. The Catholic Faith indeed is the only truly reasonable religion, I hope to give evidence of that.

However, I must say, to paraphrase Shakespeare, you out-Catholic Catholicism. In other words, you are superimposing an idea (perhaps held by many hard-core Catholics of the past and some of the present) that, to my knowledge, does not exist in the Catholic Church.

Pope Boniface VIII:

We are compelled, our Faith urging us, to believe and to hold – and we do firmly believe and simply confess – that there is one holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, outside of which there is neither salvation nor remission of sins; her Spouse proclaiming it in the canticles, “My dove, my undefiled is but one, she is the choice one of her that bore her”; which represents one mystical body, of which body the head is Christ, but of Christ, God.

In this Church there is one Lord, one Faith, and one Baptism. There was one ark of Noah, indeed, at the time of the flood, symbolizing one Church; and this being finished in one cubit had, namely, one Noah as helmsman and commander. And, with the exception of this ark, all things existing upon the earth were, as we read, destroyed.
…
Indeed we declare, say, pronounce, and define that it is altogether necessary to salvation for every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.

[The Catholic Church]
firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart “into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” [Mt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.

While the Church much prefers one to be Catholic, and in particular Roman Catholic, to receive the full and absolute Truth, it simply does NOT deny Protestants access to Heaven on this basis.

The Church denies no one access to Heaven, people either gain or reject Heaven based on their actions. It is the purpose of the Church to get people to Heaven, not to keep them out. Even God does not deny people access to Heaven, people deny themselves access to Heaven by their actions or inactions. Nothing unholy can be in the full, unveiled Presence of God who is Holy, it is torture. That is why the sinner flies from Judgment to Hell or Purgatory. An eternity is Hell is less painful for a soul in the state of mortal sin than a single second in the Presence of God.

So, no one is being denied access to Heaven. People either accept or reject God.

Belief in the Trinity, probably the Sacrament of Baptism, AND the moral practice of one’s faith in the course of one’s daily life, in part so that one does not die in mortal sin, are the dogmatic and doctrinal requirements. However, belief in ALL of the doctrines, practices, and customs of the Catholic religion, while most desirable, is NOT a requirement for salvation.

One doesn’t have to be a brilliant theologian like St. Thomas Aquinas to acquire Heaven, no. You don’t have to know all the doctrines of the Church and it is impossible to practice all the different devotions, that is why you find a devotion and stick with it.

But you cannot reject a dogma of the Church and be saved. That is called “heresy” and it is a mortal sin.

If you believe in the Catechisms

Roman Catechism:

Though the word faith has a variety of meanings in the Sacred Scriptures, we here speak only of that faith by which we yield our entire assent to whatever has been divinely revealed.

That faith thus understood is necessary to salvation no man can reasonably doubt, particularly since it is written: Without faith it is impossible to please God. For as the end proposed to man as his ultimate happiness is far above the reach of human understanding, it was therefore necessary that it should be made known to him by God. This knowledge, however, is nothing else than faith, by which we yield our unhesitating assent to whatever the authority of our Holy Mother the Church teaches us to have been revealed by God; for the faithful cannot doubt those things of which God, who is truth itself, is the author. Hence we see the great difference that exists between this faith which we give to God and that which we yield to the writers of human history.

and Papal authority,

Pope Pius XI:

The Catholic Church is alone in keeping the true worship. This is the fount of truth, this the house of Faith, this the temple of God: if any man enter not here, or if any man go forth from it, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation.

this is the Church teaching.

This is indeed the Church teaching, as it has been for 2000 years.

 

[VivaCristoRey27]

That’s the problem. One of the purposes of the Catholic Church is to Evangelize; to win people over to the Catholic Faith. The story I posted regarding the Nun was an attempt to point out that arrogant self-righteous pompous Catholics do the opposite, they drive away potential converts. Going around telling everyone who is not Catholic is going to hell and suffer eternal torment (including poor Anne Frank, the little girl murdered in the Nazis concentration camps) creates anger and hostility.

So these are two separate issues – what is the truth? and how is that truth presented? If it is presented as being self-righteousness, as though we accomplished something by being Catholic rather than it being the work of God, that we are saved by mere fact of being Catholics (as though no Catholics were lost) or as though people can’t convert. Discussion must be directed towards the end of conversion to the Catholic Faith.

Personally I think it is a calling. G-d may be calling you to remain Jewish.

God has no desire that anyone be lost.
1Ti 2:1-6:

I desire therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men: for kings, and for all that are in high station: that we may lead a quiet and a peaceable life in all piety and chastity. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus: who gave himself a redemption for all, a testimony in due times.

God will not force anyone to believe Him but He does desire that everyone will be saved “and to come to the knowledge of the truth”. So it is not true that God does not want some people to come to accept Catholic Truth. Essentially, that is saying that God pre-ordains some people to damnation, which is (strict, hyper-) Calvinism.

I also have a Jewish friend who writes for Messiahtruth.com. There is no way you are going to convince him that Jesus is the Messiah, we have fun friendly debates, but I know I’m not getting anywhere.

You should pray, make sacrifices and perhaps even have Masses said for his conversion. The veil is over his eyes, he cannot see the truth, but if you storm Heaven with prayers and make sacrifices then God will give him more actual graces to see the Truth. He still can reject the Truth, of course, but you need to use more than arguments in order to win souls.

I don’t think there even is a Catholic outreach to Jews, although he claims that there is.

I think presently on the official level, everything (not just with regards to the Jews) is about “dialogue” rather than missionary efforts. But there are lay organizations.

 

[Insight]

So, no one is being denied access to Heaven. People either accept or reject God.

The truth of the matter is that there are no Baptists or Lutherans or Methodists or Jews (or Mormons or Muslims or Hare Krishnas) in Heaven. There are only Catholics.

???

God Bless

 

[meltzerboy]

You are welcome. It is important to me to be as rational as possible in these sorts of discussions. The Catholic Faith indeed is the only truly reasonable religion, I hope to give evidence of that.

The Church denies no one access to Heaven, people either gain or reject Heaven based on their actions. It is the purpose of the Church to get people to Heaven, not to keep them out. Even God does not deny people access to Heaven, people deny themselves access to Heaven by their actions or inactions. Nothing unholy can be in the full, unveiled Presence of God who is Holy, it is torture. That is why the sinner flies from Judgment to Hell or Purgatory. An eternity is Hell is less painful for a soul in the state of mortal sin than a single second in the Presence of God.

So, no one is being denied access to Heaven. People either accept or reject God.

One doesn’t have to be a brilliant theologian like St. Thomas Aquinas to acquire Heaven, no. You don’t have to know all the doctrines of the Church and it is impossible to practice all the different devotions, that is why you find a devotion and stick with it.

But you cannot reject a dogma of the Church and be saved. That is called “heresy” and it is a mortal sin.

This is indeed the Church teaching, as it has been for 2000 years.

Based on these documents, I can only conclude that the Church has changed its position since the days of Pope Boniface VIII and The Ecumenical Council of Florence. More recent declarations from Pope John Paul II speak of “invincible ignorance” and seem to me to be more liberal in what they say about the possibility of salvation regarding Jews and Muslims, as well as Protestants. I think you have omitted these more recent teachings of the Church.

 

[VivaCristoRey27]

Hello Insight,

Catholics are not allowed to seek to ‘convert Jews’. The Holy Father stated this again recently. They are the ‘chosen people’ and God will reveal to them in his own time.

That is not exactly what he wrote.

To wit,
Pope Benedict XVI:

Jesus says in the eschatological discourse that the Gospel must first be proclaimed to the Gentiles and only then can the end come, we find exactly the same thing in Paul’s Letter to the Romans: “A hardening has come upon part of Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles come in, and so all Israel will be saved” (11:25–26).

The full number of the Gentiles and all Israel: In this formula we see the universalism of the divine salvific will. For our purposes, though, the important point is that Paul, too, recognizes an age of the Gentiles, which is the present and which must be fulfilled if God’s plan is to attain its goal.
…
Here I should like to recall the advice given by Bernard of Clairvaux to his pupil Pope Eugene III on this matter. He reminds the Pope that his duty of care extends not only to Christians, but "‘You also have obligations towards unbelievers, whether Jew, Greek, or Gentile’ (De Consideratione III/1, 2). Then he immediately corrects himself and observes more accurately: 'Granted, with regards to the Jews, time excuses you; for them a determined point in time has been fixed, which cannot be anticipated. The full number of the Gentiles must come in first.… (De Consideratione III/1, 3).

The vast majority of Jews cannot see the Truth because the veil is over their hearts.
2Cor 3:13-16:

And not as Moses put a veil upon his face, that the children of Israel might not steadfastly look on the face of that which is made void. But their senses were made dull. For, until this present day, the selfsame veil, in the reading of the old testament, remaineth not taken away (because in Christ it is made void). But even until this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart. But when they shall be converted to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away

Thus the Holy Father believes (referring to past writers) that it is essentially a waste of time trying to convert Jews in large numbers (individual conversions still occur, of course) and indeed past attempts have been terribly unsuccessful. After the debacle with the conversos of Spain, it has seemed that mass conversions of the Jews really is indeed not going to happen until the return of Henoch and Elias – the two witnesses spoke of in the Book of the Apocalypse.

 

[VivaCristoRey27]

Here is the entirety of Romans 11, that the Holy Father quotes in his book:
Romans 11:

I say then: Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people, which he foreknew. Know you not what the scripture saith of Elias; how he calleth on God against Israel? Lord, they have slain thy prophets, they have dug down thy altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. But what saith the divine answer to him? I have left me seven thousand men, that have not bowed their knees to Baal. Even so then at this present time also, there is a remnant saved according to the election of grace.

And if by grace, it is not now by works: otherwise grace is no more grace. What then? That which Israel sought, he hath not obtained: but the election hath obtained it; and the rest have been blinded. As it is written: God hath given them the spirit of insensibility; eyes that they should not see; and ears that they should not hear, until this present day. And David saith: Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompense unto them. Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see: and bow down their back always.

I say then, have they so stumbled, that they should fall? God forbid. But by their offence, salvation is come to the Gentiles, that they may be emulous of them. Now if the offence of them be the riches of the world, and the diminution of them, the riches of the Gentiles; how much more the fulness of them? For I say to you, Gentiles: as long indeed as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I will honour my ministry, if, by any means, I may provoke to emulation them who are my flesh, and may save some of them. For if the loss of them be the reconciliation of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

For if the firstfruit be holy, so is the lump also: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches be broken, and thou, being a wild olive, art ingrafted in them, and art made partaker of the root, and of the fatness of the olive tree, boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then: The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. Well: because of unbelief they were broken off. But thou standest by faith: be not highminded, but fear.

For if God hath not spared the natural branches, fear lest perhaps he also spare not thee. See then the goodness and the severity of God: towards them indeed that are fallen, the severity; but towards thee, the goodness of God, if thou abide in goodness, otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. For if thou wert cut out of the wild olive tree, which is natural to thee; and, contrary to nature, were grafted into the good olive tree; how much more shall they that are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? For I would not have you ignorant, brethren, of this mystery, (lest you should be wise in your own conceits), that blindness in part has happened in Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles should come in.

And so all Israel should be saved, as it is written: There shall come out of Sion, he that shall deliver, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob. And this is to them my covenant: when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, indeed, they are enemies for your sake: but as touching the election, they are most dear for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are without repentance. For as you also in times past did not believe God, but now have obtained mercy, through their unbelief; so these also now have not believed, for your mercy, that they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded all in unbelief, that he may have mercy on all.

O the depth of the riches of the wisdom and of the knowledge of God! How incomprehensible are his judgments, and how unsearchable his ways! For who hath known the mind of the Lord? Or who hath been his counsellor? Or who hath first given to him, and recompense shall be made him?

For of him, and by him, and in him, are all things: to him be glory for ever. Amen.

 

[VivaCristoRey27]

VivaCristoRey27
So, no one is being denied access to Heaven. People either accept or reject God.

No one is denied Heaven, they either choose God or reject Him. Those who refuse to listen to and obey God reject Him and hence reject Heaven, which is the Beatific Vision of God. It’s up to the individual person, God neither forces Himself on people nor denies Himself to them. People go to Hell because they want to, because they have made their life about something other than God through the commission of mortal sin.

VivaCristoRey27

There is no lie in Heaven, there is only Truth. There can be no false religions in Heaven, there is only the true religion. If someone goes to Heaven, it is because they embrace the true religion and have no sin in them, they are fully given over to God – this is Heaven.