Catholic Bishops against Arizona legislation

[Malkin71]

I am all for the Arizona legislation, we have enough illegal aliens in this country now, and I could care less what the Bishops think or say, the majority of them are nothing but liberals anyway, this is one of the reasons why we have so many problems in our church today, they ignore vatican authority.

Very true. They believe that they are the final authority. They believe they are autonomous. If you think with Tradition, you are concidered a relic from the Middle Ages! If you hold progressive, modernistic, Liberal views you are ok!

 

[Malkin71]

Sort of wacky to take a specific term used in the history of politics in the USA
and pretend that you can re-interpret it, don’t you think? Or do you think?

In the English language, definitions and words evolve over time. Here is an example. In the Movie 'Back to The Future" When Marty goes back to 1955 from 1985 he keeps saying “That is Heavy” What does the Doc say? “Is there a problem with the Earth’s gravatational pull?” Or think of when people say" He killed them with that song!" “You blew me away.” Did the person literaly “kill” or “blew” no. It is just a expression.

 

[catharina]

In the English language, definitions and words evolve over time. Here is an example. In the Movie 'Back to The Future" When Marty goes back to 1955 from 1985 he keeps saying “That is Heavy” What does the Doc say? “Is there a problem with the Earth’s gravatational pull?” Or think of when people say" He killed them with that song!" “You blew me away.” Did the person literaly “kill” or “blew” no. It is just a expression.

**Yoo hoo. Realityville is calling you.

You are trying to take a term that has held meaning in US history and political life
for more than a century, a term that has always had an enormous anti-Catholic
component and you are attempting to change/revise it to suit your momentary desires.

Forget movies.
Have you ever studied US History?**

 

[Malkin71]

Sort of wacky to take a specific term used in the history of politics in the USA
and pretend that you can re-interpret it, don’t you think? Or do you think?

In other countries people are pround of their countries. You can go to Greece, England, Ireland Scotland, France, etc. The definition of “Nativist” can be use to describe the native born people living in those countries. it also can be use to describe native born people in any country on the planet.

The term came from early 1900’s in the U.S. But,it does have a broad useage. A good way to understand the Bible is to go to the Holy Land and a person can understand it better.

 

[Malkin71]

**Yoo hoo. Realityville is calling you.

You are trying to take a term that has held meaning in US history and political life
for more than a century, a term that has always had an enormous anti-Catholic
component and you are attempting to change/revise it to suit your momentary desires.

Forget movies.
Have you ever studied US History?**

Yes. I did. But, not the revisionist history that is being passed on today.

 

[catharina]

In other countries people are pround of their countries. You can go to Greece, England, Ireland Scotland, France, etc. The definition of “Nativist” can be use to describe the native born people living in those countries. it also can be use to describe native born people in any country on the planet.

The term came from early 1900’s in the U.S. But,it does have a broad useage. A good way to understand the Bible is to go to the Holy Land and a person can understand it better.

AGAIN, from dictionary.reference.com/browse/nativist

One more time: you are confused. As I quoted earlier:

na·tiv·ism   /ˈneɪtɪˌvɪzəm/  Show Spelled[ney-ti-viz-uhm]  –noun
1.the policy of protecting the interests of native inhabitants against those of immigrants. 

Origin: 
**1835–45**, Americanism; native + -ism

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

nativism

U.S. anti-immigrant movement, **1845**, from native (adj.) + -ism.
na·tiv·ism  (nā'tĭ-vĭz'əm)    

n.  1.A sociopolitical policy, especially in the United States in the 19th century, favoring the interests of established inhabitants over those of immigrants.
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


I'm sorry about your confusion but I haven't the will or energy to address you again.
It seems obvious that you only respect the "word inventions" of yourself. 
Forget history, forget politics - and forget the Church, I guess.  

I wish you well - but I can't bear any more of this senseless back-and-forth.


PS - the word you seem to be looking for is NATIVE, not nativist.

 

[catharina]

Yes. I did. But, not the revisionist history that is being passed on today.

Nativist politics was (and apparently IS) a reality in this country.
Sorry you never learned about it. Maybe you didn’t want to learn it.
Bye now.

 

[csuliman]

I am stunned by a lot of the uncharitable views of people on this board to those who are poor and suffering. Many here simply want to label all Mexicans as dangerous criminals, liberal or insufficient Catholics, etc.

Many of your ancestors came without permits into the United States because the United States used to be a welcoming and open place for immigrants. Now that you have wealth, I think that the teachings of Christ would ask you not to create a fence around yourself to keep people from sharing in this wealth.

I would like to know what experiance you have in this situation at the border is? Do you live here? Have you tried to find a job here? Have you watched as people died in the desert becouse of human smugglers? How many "illigals have you fed today? How many gunshots did you hear last night from the ever present drug war on our border? How many locks do you have on your door? I have 4.** I do not blame them I blame their government but enough is enough it is time that Mexico take care of the corruption that makes its citizens desperate enough to trust a human smuggler.**

By all means pressure the Mexican government to clean up its act. However, that does not immediately solve the problem of poor people wanting to work in order to feed their family. Should we let them starve while the government is clearing up its act?

 

[catharina]

I am stunned by a lot of the uncharitable views of people on this board to those who are poor and suffering. Many here simply want to label all Mexicans as dangerous criminals, liberal or insufficient Catholics, etc.

Many of your ancestors came without permits into the United States because the United States used to be a welcoming and open place for immigrants. Now that you have wealth, I think that the teachings of Christ would ask you not to create a fence around yourself to keep people from sharing in this wealth.

By all means pressure the Mexican government to clean up its act. However, that does not immediately solve the problem of poor people wanting to work in order to feed their family. Should we let them starve while the government is clearing up its act?

You’re not alone in your observation.
I’m also completely stunned by such venom.

 

[canadianguy1143]

I am stunned by a lot of the uncharitable views of people on this board to those who are poor and suffering. Many here simply want to label all Mexicans as dangerous criminals, liberal or insufficient Catholics, etc.

Many of your ancestors came without permits into the United States because the United States used to be a welcoming and open place for immigrants. Now that you have wealth, I think that the teachings of Christ would ask you not to create a fence around yourself to keep people from sharing in this wealth.

By all means pressure the Mexican government to clean up its act. However, that does not immediately solve the problem of poor people wanting to work in order to feed their family. Should we let them starve while the government is clearing up its act?

Sharing in the wealth? Sounds like income redistribution. Sounds like Obamaisms. Of course you neglect one important aspect, all of the ancestors OBEYED the law. Considering that illegal immigration affects the RIGHT TO LIFE, the innocent should suffer so that we don’t appear to be like Nazi Germany! I hope you are just against the racial profiling that goes on in the airports as you are with this.

 

[Malkin71]

I am stunned by a lot of the uncharitable views of people on this board to those who are poor and suffering. Many here simply want to label all Mexicans as dangerous criminals, liberal or insufficient Catholics, etc.

Many of your ancestors came without permits into the United States because the United States used to be a welcoming and open place for immigrants. Now that you have wealth, I think that the teachings of Christ would ask you not to create a fence around yourself to keep people from sharing in this wealth.

By all means pressure the Mexican government to clean up its act. However, that does not immediately solve the problem of poor people wanting to work in order to feed their family. Should we let them starve while the government is clearing up its act?

I am stunned that you do not know that Illegal Immigration is “FEDERAL CRIME” in the U.S. and is punshable.

"Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, “Improper Entry by Alien,” any citizen of any country other than the United States who:

Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or

Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or

Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;
has committed a federal crime."

Also did you answer my question about “Sould Illegals go throughthe process and fill out the paperwork, Learn English and Assimulate?”

 

[Malkin71]

You’re not alone in your observation.
I’m also completely stunned by such venom.

It is called a Federal Crime!

Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, “Improper Entry by Alien,” any citizen of any country other than the United States who:

Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or

Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or

Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;
has committed a federal crime.

Why don’t you take in all the Illegals, Pay for their health care, feed them, buy them clothes and shelter them. See how long you will put up with them!

 

[Elizabeth502]

IBy all means pressure the Mexican government to clean up its act

There is absolutely zero incentive for them to clean up their act with their current dynamic, which prevents or subdues civil unrest in Mexico, given the open valve to come north, and further (even more importantly) pump millions of dollars into the Mexican economy due to cash flow from their citizens who have fled north, and distribute south. It is a toxically perfect co-dependent system which overwhelmingly advantages Mexico and the Mexican government compared to what it provides to the U.S. It gets the corrupt Mexican officials off the hook for responsibility.

 

[Malkin71]

I am stunned by a lot of the uncharitable views of people on this board to those who are poor and suffering. Many here simply want to label all Mexicans as dangerous criminals, liberal or insufficient Catholics, etc.

Many of your ancestors came without permits into the United States because the United States used to be a welcoming and open place for immigrants. Now that you have wealth, I think that the teachings of Christ would ask you not to create a fence around yourself to keep people from sharing in this wealth.

By all means pressure the Mexican government to clean up its act. However, that does not immediately solve the problem of poor people wanting to work in order to feed their family. Should we let them starve while the government is clearing up its act?

Also, people were turned away if they had deseases! Remember when there was food contamination with the food a while back?

H1N1 was the 'Mexican Swine Flu" It is called that because that is where it originated from. It was called H1N1 the technical medical name to be Politically Correct!

 

[catharina]

It is called a Federal Crime!

Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, “Improper Entry by Alien,” any citizen of any country other than the United States who:

Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or

Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or

Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;
has committed a federal crime.

Why don’t you take in all the Illegals, Pay for their health care, feed them, buy them clothes and shelter them. See how long you will put up with them!

My sympathy that you hold such rage.

 

[Malkin71]

My sympathy that you hold such rage.

You probaly forgot to mention that people who are anti Illegal Immigration are xenophobic!

What is wrong with obeying the law?

America has a faberic that comes unwound when Illegal Immigration gets ignored. Open borders cause 9-11. Soverignty is at stake. It is unfair that Illegals get Student loans, Health Care, Jobs, and Housing. While Hard working Americans who followed the Law, went to school, had jobs and then the jobs went over the border and overseas. How do think they feel when they have to support their family while the Illegals are taking the jobs, Housekeeping, Construction or food service and they are on the unemployment line? How do you think they feel when the Bishops say to give to support the poor migrant workers while there own family is starving?

CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME!!!

If all the Illegals are sent packing home. Unemployment will drop. Americans will find work. Hospitals would not close or go bankrupt.

What happened to being Patriotic and American Pride?

 

[jtodisco]

For people who profess to be followers of Christ the hardness of heart thoughout this thread is quite disturbing.

“When an alien resides with you in your land, you shall not oppress the alien. The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; **you shall love the alien as yourself **, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.” - Leviticus 19.33-34

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepard separates the sheep from the goats, and he will put the sheep at his right hand and the goats at the left. Then the king will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me somethign to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care fo me, I was in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?’ ** And the king will answer them, ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.’ ** Then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they also will answer, ‘Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?’ ** Then he will answer them, ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ ** And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” - Matthew 25.31-46

“But wanting to justify himself, he asked Jesus, ‘And who is my neighbor?’ Jesus replied, ‘A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell into the hands of robbers, who stripped him, beat him, and went away, leaving him half dead. Now by chance a priest was going down that road; and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. So likewise a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan while traveling came near him; and when he saw him, he was moved with pity. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, having poured oil and wine on them. Then he put him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and took care of him. The next day he took out two denarii, gave them to the innkeeper, and said, ‘Take care of him; and when I come back, I will repay you whatever more you spend.’ ** Which of these three, do you think, was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of the robbers?’ He said, ‘The one who showed him mercy.’ Jesus said to him, 'Go and do likewise. ** '” - Luke 10.29-37

"** This is my commandement, that you love one another as I have loved you. ** - John 15.12

"** As many of you as were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus. ** - Galatians 3.27-28

"** What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but do not have works? Can faith save you? If a brother or sister is naked and lacks daily food, and one of you says to them, ‘Go in peace; keep warm and eat your fill,’ and yet you do not supply their bodily needs, what is the good of that? So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead. ** - James 2.14-17

"We know that we have passed from death to life because we love one another. Whoever does not love abides in death. All who hate a brother or sister are murderers, and you know that murderers do not have eternal life abiding in them. We know love by this, that he laid down his life for us – and we ought to lay down our lives for one another. ** How does God’s love abide in anyone who has the world’s goods and sees a brother or sister in need and yet refuses to help? Little children, let us love, not in word or speech, but in truth and action. ** - 1 John 3.14-18

 

[canadianguy1143]

For people who profess to be followers of Christ the hardness of heart thoughout this thread is quite disturbing.

How dare you judge us to be followers of Christ.

 

[Ender]

I am stunned by a lot of the uncharitable views of people on this board to those who are poor and suffering. Many here simply want to label all Mexicans as dangerous criminals, liberal or insufficient Catholics, etc.

I think the most common label being used is “illegal”, and for most of us that is sufficient.

Now that you have wealth, I think that the teachings of Christ would ask you not to create a fence around yourself to keep people from sharing in this wealth.

The solution to the problem is a political, prudential issue; it is no more a moral question than determining where to set the minimum wage.

By all means pressure the Mexican government to clean up its act. However, that does not immediately solve the problem of poor people wanting to work in order to feed their family. Should we let them starve while the government is clearing up its act?

If you actually cared about the poor then you would work to shut off immigration from Mexico and enable it from countries that are actually poor. Mexico is an established upper middle income country with the twelfth largest economy in the world. The implication about people being in danger of starvation is completely bogus.

Ender

 

[mlund]

The most insidious and dishonest part of this discussion is the willful misrepresentation the Illegal Aliens and Legal Immigrants are interchangeable as long as they happen to be of the same Nationality or Race / Ethnicity. Such thinking is innately racist and insults human dignity.

The law-abiding alien is welcomed.

The law-breaking alien is reviled and forced to abide the law.

The two are distinguished not by their birth, but by their actions.

• Marty Lund