Catholic Charismatic Renewal, an effective response to Charismatic Evanglicals?

[netmilsmom]

What I understand is why do so many people get stressed out about what other people do with their hands. We need to recognize that in a matter where there is no sin, we need to permit others some liberty.

I think you need to talk to the Vatican about taking liberties. I guess if I wanted to shorkle next to you, it wouldn’t bother you at all. Fair enough. How about fingering a Rosary? How about laying prostrate? How about if we all do our own thing?

Not to get off topic, because it really isn’t. When the Charismatics come into a parish, they need to look at the Unity already there instead of doing their own thing.

 

[happygal]

What you are speaking of is a directive called “hands extended”.
It is a directive given to the Priest in the Holy Mass.

Could you please show me the Vatican document directing the laity to use the “Hands Extended” posture?

Hi Netmil(name removed by moderator)

Sorry to say that i aim a Catholic, thus thks for telling me that this Hands Extended posture was a directive given only to the priest. However usually when most protestant pray during our QT we knee down and have our hands extended becoz we are humbling ourselves (just like surrendering ourselves to God) thus probably for Catholics, only priest can do that and members shouldn’t. However it does make me wonder does that mean by protestant have their hand extended during pur prayer are rude to God?? God wanted a heart that is after him , not exactly someone who can be 100% rule abiding and yet , their heart are otherwise!!!

 

[happygal]

---

From reading what has been provided about Padre Pio—it seems God is very selective—on who He bestows the gifts on.
Does not seem to fit—what is now being claimed by the charismatic congregations.

**Hi Walking Home

In what sense that you think God is selective on the gifts he bestows?? and in what sense does it not fit by the claimed of the charismatic congregations??**

 

[Anne_G]

I attend 2 Churches alternately, one a Charismatic Church and the other my local Traditional Church. I would go to the Charismatic one only except my children think it’s a bit weird and they don’t want to go, so I go every second week when they are with their father. The mass is identical in both Churches. The Charismatic preist has it all over the traditional preists I’ve seen, in his homilies. I come away inspired, enthusiastic, etc, etc. The Charismatics truly worship God. Mary is most important in the Church I go to. They all kneel for the Eucharist. They have real fellowship and are very welcoming to all. I do not find that at my local parish Church at all. Unless you join one of their groups you don’t get to meet anyone. They all just rush off after Mass.
The Holy Spirit is truly at work in the Charismatic Church I go to.

 

[Karin]

I attend 2 Churches alternately, one a Charismatic Church and the other my local Traditional Church. I would go to the Charismatic one only except my children think it’s a bit weird and they don’t want to go, so I go every second week when they are with their father. The mass is identical in both Churches. The Charismatic preist has it all over the traditional preists** I’ve seen, in his homilies. I come away inspired, enthusiastic, etc, etc. The Charismatics truly worship God**. Mary is most important in the Church I go to. They all kneel for the Eucharist. They have real fellowship and are very welcoming to all. I do not find that at my local parish Church at all. Unless you join one of their groups you don’t get to meet anyone. They all just rush off after Mass.
The Holy Spirit is truly at work in the Charismatic Church I go to.

you know everything that you stated you get from your Charismatic Church…I get from my Traditional Church…well except for the hand holding,arm waving,guitars etc.

 

[netmilsmom]

Hi Netmil(name removed by moderator)

Sorry to say that i aim a Catholic, thus thks for telling me that this Hands Extended posture was a directive given only to the priest. However usually when most protestant pray during our QT we knee down and have our hands extended becoz we are humbling ourselves (just like surrendering ourselves to God) thus probably for Catholics, only priest can do that and members shouldn’t. However it does make me wonder does that mean by protestant have their hand extended during pur prayer are rude to God?? God wanted a heart that is after him , not exactly someone who can be 100% rule abiding and yet , their heart are otherwise!!!

In the Protestant churches and in private prayer for that matter, the hands extended posture is used in prayer. If it makes you feel closer to God, go for it. I don’t think that’s it’s rude to God (but who am I anyway) Honestly, not at all. I think Our Lord is happy to hear from you.

However, in the Holy Mass, we have rubics that must be followed. It’s one of those ideas like, “If your going to drive a car, you must follow the rules or it’s chaos.”

If one is Catholic, one should follow the rules of being Catholic. One of those is that the “hands extended” posture is given as a directive to the priest and not the laity. When it is given to the laity in the Holy Mass, it becomes theirs.

Our rubics don’t tell you what you “Can’t” do, but rather what you should do. It makes for a huge confusion for who want it different. It opens the Holy Mass for trying any innovation.

But if one of my kids flooded the bathroom because I never told them not to and they saw it on a Tom and Jerry cartoon, I would be pretty upset. Some things are “said” without being stated.

 

[netmilsmom]

I attend 2 Churches alternately, one a Charismatic Church and the other my local Traditional Church. I would go to the Charismatic one only except my children think it’s a bit weird and they don’t want to go, so I go every second week when they are with their father. The mass is identical in both Churches. The Charismatic preist has it all over the traditional preists I’ve seen, in his homilies. I come away inspired, enthusiastic, etc, etc. The Charismatics truly worship God. Mary is most important in the Church I go to. They all kneel for the Eucharist. They have real fellowship and are very welcoming to all. I do not find that at my local parish Church at all. Unless you join one of their groups you don’t get to meet anyone. They all just rush off after Mass.
The Holy Spirit is truly at work in the Charismatic Church I go to.

So are you stating that none of the things you find at the Charismatic Church are found at the Non-Charismatic Church?

If that’s the case, it’s far from traditional. Go find a new traditional parish.

 

[dumspirospero]

Sorry Anne…I do not follow…if those elements you described are not found in your “traditional parish”…check and make sure it is a Catholic Parish…I have found all of those things and more at the Novus Ordo parish I attend and the more traditional parish I attend…it is a far cry from the Bon Jovi concerts…people having seizures and convulsions…and people waving their arms around like what is found in some Charismatic circles around here. If you call that reverent and edifying to God…that is your perogative…but let me do a comparison really quick.

I will choose this:
http://www.pittsburghlatinmass.org/sblm/images/cathedral/procession1.jpg

over this any day:
http://www.dioceseofnashville.com/images/article-charismatic restingsmall.jpg

Just incase you don’t believe this is a Catholic Church, here is the link:
dioceseofnashville.com/article-charismaticconfcelebrates.htm

Once again…I will choose this:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Over this…any day:
http://www.orlandocharismatic.net/images/charis_conf_2005_020.jpg
or this
http://www.orlandocharismatic.net/images/exuberant_charismatic_praise.jpg
orlandocharismatic.net/images/exuberant_charismatic_praise.jpg

This is sickening if you ask me…and a blatant attack against the Sacred Liturgy…excuse me, I am going to throw up now.

I attend 2 Churches alternately, one a Charismatic Church and the other my local Traditional Church. I would go to the Charismatic one only except my children think it’s a bit weird and they don’t want to go, so I go every second week when they are with their father. The mass is identical in both Churches. The Charismatic preist has it all over the traditional preists I’ve seen, in his homilies. I come away inspired, enthusiastic, etc, etc. The Charismatics truly worship God. Mary is most important in the Church I go to. They all kneel for the Eucharist. They have real fellowship and are very welcoming to all. I do not find that at my local parish Church at all. Unless you join one of their groups you don’t get to meet anyone. They all just rush off after Mass.
The Holy Spirit is truly at work in the Charismatic Church I go to.

 

[happygal]

Sorry Anne…I do not follow…if those elements you described are not found in your “traditional parish”…check and make sure it is a Catholic Parish…I have found all of those things and more at the Novus Ordo parish I attend and the more traditional parish I attend…it is a far cry from the Bon Jovi concerts…people having seizures and convulsions…and people waving their arms around like what is found in some Charismatic circles around here. If you call that reverent and edifying to God…that is your perogative…but let me do a comparison really quick.

Oh is interesting to find that the Catholic charismatic renewnal (the 2nd photo) are conducted just like how my protestant church goes…since i only being to traditional Mass and never being to a Charismatic Mass, at least i would know in future i will know what to expect. Although i can accept both traditional and Charismatic, but i guess there are pple who simply unable to accept the Charismatic movement cos they feel rather uncomfortable and weird, and also become of such uncomfortness that did not allows them to experience Charismatic movement in a spiritual way…

 

[Karin]

IF you follow the GRIM for a mass then I have no problems with the mass…but when you lay down on the floor, wave your arms or other abuses than yeah I guess I have a problem with that

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

I’m all for true charisms… speaking in tongues, healing the sick, infallibility , etc. But don’t you think that they have a proper time and place? I can’t see the pope making an infallible proclamation in the middle of a Mass. Maybe that is a bad example but it is true for me. Their are guidelines for the Mass and clergy and the laity is suppose to follow the guidelines. Posture and responses are addressed, are they not?

I am a little surprised at one thing though. In the charismatic Bible study I was talking about earlier there is none of that seemingly hysterical hand waving, “seizures”, etc. Yes, the pray in tongues–it sounds like music when they are all doing it at the same time. But it is not frenzied. Very reverent…just not in an understandable language. That sort of frenzy seems to be calling a lot of attention to the person, and not to God. Doesn’t seem to fit the idea of humility that we were talking about earlier.

 

[paramedicgirl]

I think you need to talk to the Vatican about taking liberties. I guess if I wanted to shorkle next to you, it wouldn’t bother you at all. Fair enough. How about fingering a Rosary? How about laying prostrate? How about if we all do our own thing?

Not to get off topic, because it really isn’t. When the Charismatics come into a parish, they need to look at the Unity already there instead of doing their own thing.

Yes, by all means, we should all lay prostrate in Mass! What a great idea! Once, my priest lay prostrate during exposition of the Blessed Sacrament, and you should have seen the look on people’s faces. It was priceless. They were so confused. Maybe he should have told them he was worshipping God. Ya think??

 

[paramedicgirl]

Sorry Anne…I do not follow…if those elements you described are not found in your “traditional parish”…check and make sure it is a Catholic Parish…I have found all of those things and more at the Novus Ordo parish I attend and the more traditional parish I attend…it is a far cry from the Bon Jovi concerts…people having seizures and convulsions…and people waving their arms around like what is found in some Charismatic circles around here. If you call that reverent and edifying to God…that is your perogative…but let me do a comparison really quick.

I will choose this:
http://www.pittsburghlatinmass.org/sblm/images/cathedral/procession1.jpg

over this any day:
http://www.dioceseofnashville.com/images/article-charismatic restingsmall.jpg

Just incase you don’t believe this is a Catholic Church, here is the link:
dioceseofnashville.com/article-charismaticconfcelebrates.htm

Once again…I will choose this:
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5311/1228/1600/Mass.jpg

Over this…any day:
http://www.orlandocharismatic.net/images/charis_conf_2005_020.jpg
or this
http://www.orlandocharismatic.net/images/exuberant_charismatic_praise.jpg
orlandocharismatic.net/images/exuberant_charismatic_praise.jpg

This is sickening if you ask me…and a blatant attack against the Sacred Liturgy…excuse me, I am going to throw up now.

Sonny, I’ve got 50 mg of gravol for you. That should help you through the sickness.

 

[netmilsmom]

Sonny, I’ve got 50 mg of gravol for you. That should help you through the sickness.

You know what I would love to see?
Pictures just like these and then the Protestant counterparts.

We always get slammed for calling these motions Protestant.
How about a Catholic modern picture vs a Protestant modern picture?

I’d like to see it for interiors of churches too!

(think about it for future blogging!)

 

[Contarini]

This is sickening if you ask me…and a blatant attack against the Sacred Liturgy…excuse me, I am going to throw up now.

Could you formulate a reason for your opinion? I’m not saying you are wrong necessarily–I do not believe that worship is purely a matter of taste. But I’d like to see a theologically argued case for your judgment rather than a simple assertion of personal preference.

Edwin

 

[dumspirospero]

LOL…thanks, I need it bad.

Sonny, I’ve got 50 mg of gravol for you. That should help you through the sickness.

 

[dumspirospero]

I will have to try and do that

You know what I would love to see?
Pictures just like these and then the Protestant counterparts.

We always get slammed for calling these motions Protestant.
How about a Catholic modern picture vs a Protestant modern picture?

I’d like to see it for interiors of churches too!

(think about it for future blogging!)

 

[paramedicgirl]

You know what I would love to see?
Pictures just like these and then the Protestant counterparts.

We always get slammed for calling these motions Protestant.
How about a Catholic modern picture vs a Protestant modern picture?

I’d like to see it for interiors of churches too!

(think about it for future blogging!)

I think the pics would be one and the same.

 

[dumspirospero]

I will try…but first, please specify exactly what you would like for me and try to do…I have made several statements regarding the CCR.

Could you formulate a reason for your opinion? I’m not saying you are wrong necessarily–I do not believe that worship is purely a matter of taste. But I’d like to see a theologically argued case for your judgment rather than a simple assertion of personal preference.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

I will try…but first, please specify exactly what you would like for me and try to do…I have made several statements regarding the CCR.

Perhaps you have done what I asked and I missed the post. What I’m looking for is a statement clarifying exactly what principles of Christian worship are being violated by the pictures of Charismatic worship you cited. In the posts I’ve read, you simply describe as if what you were describing was self-evidently wrong.

Edwin