Why do you sound so angry? If you are into the Charismatic movement where is your generosity as a Christian/Catholic. And, what is with the ‘Duly Deposited’ sign. I am fairly new here and that appears to be insulting.I am certain there were people saying the same thing when the church instituted Holy Days on top of pagan festivals.
And perhaps in 2000 more years they may be able to show difficulties readily attributable to the Movement just as some can draw a line from Christmas and Easter to perceived ‘worship’ of trees and stray rabbits.
Honestly, the more I read here, the more I feel the Evangelicals are knocking on my door. I am surprised at the amount of irritability I am reading in these posts. For those of you who want the Charismatic way of service, fine, but why are you all so angry and seem determined to change our way of thinking? From what I know of Catholocism, that is not our way. My Aunt is going to be 79 in April. She would never go for this and I don’t blame her. Theotokos, I am very interested in your Easten Rite. I am going to look for a parish. I feel you and I are the only ones who are not interested in this new form of Catholocism. I am feeling like my way and preferred method of Mass isn’t enough for me to find Grace in God’s eyes. Am I taking all this the wrong way?The same as any parish. A means to receive the sacraments, receive the Word of God, increase Grace. All those good things.
I am in the same boat as you and Theotokis, however, I’m not looking for an Eastern rite church. I know that some in my parish are part of a charismatic community, but this is not happening AT my parish. I’ll always be ‘Western’, but will not condone behavior in the mass that I think is abhorrent.Honestly, the more I read here, the more I feel the Evangelicals are knocking on my door. I am surprised at the amount of irritability I am reading in these posts. For those of you who want the Charismatic way of service, fine, but why are you all so angry and seem determined to change our way of thinking? From what I know of Catholocism, that is not our way. My Aunt is going to be 79 in April. She would never go for this and I don’t blame her. Theotokos, I am very interested in your Easten Rite. I am going to look for a parish. I feel you and I are the only ones who are not interested in this new form of Catholocism. I am feeling like my way and preferred method of Mass isn’t enough for me to find Grace in God’s eyes. Am I taking all this the wrong way?
aloneinjax,Honestly, the more I read here, the more I feel the Evangelicals are knocking on my door. I am surprised at the amount of irritability I am reading in these posts. For those of you who want the Charismatic way of service, fine, but why are you all so angry and seem determined to change our way of thinking? From what I know of Catholocism, that is not our way. My Aunt is going to be 79 in April. She would never go for this and I don’t blame her. Theotokos, I am very interested in your Easten Rite. I am going to look for a parish. I feel you and I are the only ones who are not interested in this new form of Catholocism. I am feeling like my way and preferred method of Mass isn’t enough for me to find Grace in God’s eyes. Am I taking all this the wrong way?
Again, this does not make even logical sense to me as the leadership is participating in what you call abuses (we disagree there) yet you continue to say they remain in a bubble. That just doesn’t make sense to me in a logical way.How can either of us know for sure what the situation is here? We can only speculate. And from my personal experiences with the inner workings of the Church (I have the benefit, or perhaps the curse, of knowing such), the Church leaders are very much kept in a bubble surrounding events that take place on the front line of Christianity, so to speak. Additionally, I doubt very much the Church leaders of Rome would endorse anything that has led to the abuses I have seen. Logically, they can’t be getting the whole picture.
I just quoted what church leaders have said about it.Can you prove this point without using sources that support the Movement’s interests?
I love your humor! LOL. Of course the Holy Spirit didn’t take off for 1900 years. Protestants have nothing to do with it.I seriously doubt the Holy Spirit took off for 1900 years and then all of a sudden returned in a vengeance out of the minds of the sexual revolution. Also, if it is Catholic in practice, why behave like a Protestants?
Wow! This is eye-opening. Now this is why I asked what is the mission and purpose of your church. The church, of course is not the building, it’s the people. I know you know that. The Roman Catholic church’s mission is to spread the Gospel. At Baptism, EACH of us is called to participate in that mission. I’m not saying that all do or even understand that, but it is clearly the Roman Catholic Church’s mission.But we are not a missionary group. That is not the function of a parish, nor should it be in the west.
You are too quick to judge my friend. That is the challenge of this form of communication. I completely (100%) agree that the Church’s authority comes from Scripture and Tradition (with a capital “T”). No debate there. I was referring to the little “t”. That is why I look to the church leadership for guidance not the scriptures alone (Sola Scriptura). You continue to appear to push aside what church leadership has to say about all this. That’s why I suspect your position. I am just being honest here. I apologize for my lack of clarity that led you to jump to that conclusion.Those traditions are what make us Catholic! To replace them, dismiss them, or to shadow them by some other purpose is the very essence of Protestantism. Your statement here only further supports my point that this Charismatic Renewal Movement is dangerous, as its adherents have a corrupted understanding of the nature of Catholicism. You might know what the word means, but you appear to fail to understand, or remember, that the Catholic Church’s authority derives not only from Scripture but also from Tradition. We cannot use one without the other, nor can we modify Tradition to meet certain people’s needs. To do so is to, once again, be Protestant.
Again, he has also participated in and supported the CCR so I don’t understand your reasoning here.In my opinion, the Church of Rome has lost a bit of its identity in recent years. Under His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI, the Church of Rome is slowly returning to the ideals that made it strong in the first place. I only want what is best for the Church, as I suspect you do as well.
There is no anger there.Why do you sound so angry? If you are into the Charismatic movement where is your generosity as a Christian/Catholic. And, what is with the ‘Duly Deposited’ sign. I am fairly new here and that appears to be insulting.
I’m not sure who you are referring to as being irritable or angry. If it is me please let me know what I wrote comes across that way. I truly want to know. I think the fact that we can have truly open discussion, in a respectful way, is healthy and challenges us to grow as individuals. I learn alot from these discussions. If they ever become disrespectful or personal, that’s when I bow out. This discussion has been very respectful in my opinion while being very open and at times direct. That’s OK. No anger or irritability here.Honestly, the more I read here, the more I feel the Evangelicals are knocking on my door. I am surprised at the amount of irritability I am reading in these posts. For those of you who want the Charismatic way of service, fine, but why are you all so angry and seem determined to change our way of thinking? From what I know of Catholocism, that is not our way. My Aunt is going to be 79 in April. She would never go for this and I don’t blame her. Theotokos, I am very interested in your Easten Rite. I am going to look for a parish. I feel you and I are the only ones who are not interested in this new form of Catholocism. I am feeling like my way and preferred method of Mass isn’t enough for me to find Grace in God’s eyes. Am I taking all this the wrong way?
A minority of approximately 140,000,000 in the Roman Catholic Church. It’s still a minority, but a fairly large number. Most are suprised at the number though.At the current time, the Charismatic Renewal Movement is still the minority
You are going to have to trust me when I say that I was involved in the inner workings of the Church for many years and I know how the system works. Believe me, Bishops on up don’t get told even a fraction of what is going on. Logic has nothing to do with it I assure you. And I was as shocked as you are when I found out.Again, this does not make even logical sense to me as the leadership is participating in what you call abuses (we disagree there) yet you continue to say they remain in a bubble. That just doesn’t make sense to me in a logical way.
If the Church leadership is participating in the Movement, that would not constitute a source that does not support the Movement’s interests.I just quoted what church leaders have said about it.
So then answer my question? Why all the Protestant behavior?I love your humor! LOL. Of course the Holy Spirit didn’t take off for 1900 years. Protestants have nothing to do with it.
You are confusing the Spirit of the Church with the administrative function of the Church. Parishes are not administratively designed to be missionaries and they should not be as that is not their function.Wow! This is eye-opening. Now this is why I asked what is the mission and purpose of your church. The church, of course is not the building, it’s the people. I know you know that. The Roman Catholic church’s mission is to spread the Gospel. At Baptism, EACH of us is called to participate in that mission. I’m not saying that all do or even understand that, but it is clearly the Roman Catholic Church’s mission.
I don’t push aside what Church leadership has said. I am dealing with it in all of my posts. Just because I don’t agree with their conclusions, doesn’t mean I am ignoring them. Again, there is not one ex cathedra statement pertaining to the Charismatic Movement. I believe, as such, that my opinions are theologically legal.You are too quick to judge my friend. That is the challenge of this form of communication. I completely (100%) agree that the Church’s authority comes from Scripture and Tradition (with a capital “T”). No debate there. I was referring to the little “t”. That is why I look to the church leadership for guidance not the scriptures alone (Sola Scriptura). You continue to appear to push aside what church leadership has to say about all this. That’s why I suspect your position. I am just being honest here. I apologize for my lack of clarity that led you to jump to that conclusion.
Again, he has also participated in and supported the CCR so I don’t understand your reasoning here.
My reasoning is that he is a far more viable Pope than his predecessor, albeit, slow, as they all are, to make corrections.Thanks for the open, respectful discussion though. My guess is we truly have the most important things in common. Love God and love our neighbors in all we do!
The Catechism talks about the charismatic gifts. It doesn’t talk about the actions and behaviors of the Charismatic Movement. Of course, you see them as one and the same, we do not. Thus the problem.As far as saying it is “not our way”. Read the Documents of Vatican II, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, etc. It covers all this.
Blessings!
I thought I read, here, that some do faint in the Catholic church. That is what I am NOT understanding. I have always held the fact that I am Catholic very close to my heart. All this new-fangled stuff makes me wonder about my own religion.A couple of things.
First, St Paul never says that tongues is a foreign language…it is St Luke who **seems **to imply that in Acts 2. But several Biblical scholars have pointed out that what St Luke actually says is that everyone heard the Apostles speaking in their own language, not that there was someone speaking in each language – the miracle was in the hearing rather than the speaking. St Paul’s position is that speaking in tongues is prayer to God, not that it is a human language.
BTW, there was a recent study published in a scientific journal that shed some light on what is actually going on when a person prays in tongues, and it is surprisingly consistent with what Catholic Charismatic theologians have been saying all along. Here is the citation: *Psychiatry Research: Neuroimaging *148 (2006) 67–71, “The measurement of regional cerebral blood flow during glossolalia: A preliminary SPECT study”.
Second, the whole thing about “fainting” is a practice of some (okay, many) Charismatic groups, often as part of healing services (not the same as healing Masses). This practice of fainting (or “resting in the Spirit”, to use the current jargon) actually is a Protestant innovation from the late 19th century that developed in the Holiness Movement before the Pentecostal movement began in the early 1900’s.
Those early Pentecostals were Holiness adherents who simply brought the practice with them. It is one of those “accidents” of the Charismatic Renewal that is not part of the “substance” (not found in Scripture nor in the practice of the early Church) and that can safely be put aside.
Oh, thank you for speaking up! I thought I was missing something or just didn’t understand. Well, the Catholic church I attend doesn’t do this…yet. I haven’t heard anything but, if more and more are drawn to this way of worship, I would go to an Eastern Rite. I find the old-fashioned way of Mass is very reverant. I get much peace and feeling of our Lord from our regular form of Mass/prayer. I find it disheartening that the Pope is conding this sort of practice.I am in the same boat as you and Theotokis, however, I’m not looking for an Eastern rite church. I know that some in my parish are part of a charismatic community, but this is not happening AT my parish. I’ll always be ‘Western’, but will not condone behavior in the mass that I think is abhorrent.
michel
I feel the anomisty in other posts, not just to me but to others who don’t understand nor want to join in, in the Charimsatic movement. Some of the posts do sound angry/irritated because we don’t ‘get it’ and we are missing out on something. For me, that is an insult and akin to saying the original method of Mass and prayers is no longer enough.There is no anger there.
Just an observation.
And to your assumption, no. I am not in the charismatic movement.
As far as the signature line, it is an idiom.
I am giving my 2 cents worth.
Thank you so much. Disheartening! That is the word I was looking for in reference to the Pope’s endorsement.I find it disheartening that the Pope is conding this sort of practice.
Some in this thread have even stated that it’s not enough.I feel the anomisty in other posts, not just to me but to others who don’t understand nor want to join in, in the Charimsatic movement. Some of the posts do sound angry/irritated because we don’t ‘get it’ and we are missing out on something. For me, that is an insult and akin to saying the original method of Mass and prayers is no longer enough.
I also want to add here that it is far more important to live the Gospel than it is to preach it. We, as Christians, should bring the Gospel to the world by example, not just by the words themselves. Furthermore, few in the world have the theological training to preach the Gospel correctly. Thus, why it is far better to live it, which is every bit what the Church is talking about here in your statement.The Roman Catholic church’s mission is to spread the Gospel. At Baptism, EACH of us is called to participate in that mission. I’m not saying that all do or even understand that, but it is clearly the Roman Catholic Church’s mission.
Again, we are in complete agreement here.I also want to add here that it is far more important to live the Gospel than it is to preach it. We, as Christians, should bring the Gospel to the world by example, not just by the words themselves. Furthermore, few in the world have the theological training to preach the Gospel correctly. Thus, why it is far better to live it, which is every bit what the Church is talking about here in your statement.
So then can we not also agree that the administrative body of a parish, that distributes the Grace of God via the sacraments to the faithful, so that they may live the Gospel message more authentically, is indeed fulfilling its spiritual obligation to spread the Gospel to the world?Again, we are in complete agreement here.
I absolutely agree that is part of it!So then can we not also agree that the administrative body of a parish, that distributes the Grace of God via the sacraments to the faithful, so that they may live the Gospel message more authentically, is indeed fulfilling its spiritual obligation to spread the Gospel to the world?
LOL It must be all the extra prayer. Or perhaps we are too hungry to argue with all of our fasting?I absolutely agree that is part of it!
Is Friday during Lent “agree day”? LOL