O
orang
Guest
Here is my quote
I quoted you guys, so now its your turn.
I’m changing the topic to spiritual. Above is my quote which has been ignored.
- Status
I quoted you guys, so now its your turn.
I’m changing the topic to spiritual. Above is my quote which has been ignored.
P
Prayer_Warrior
Guest
If I understand you correctly, I agree with your sentiments about over excitement. I believe some charismatics do get over excited and their focus shifts to the gifts and not the Giver. Additionally, over excitement can lead to one thinking that the power is theirs and not the Lord’s. But, I for one, am enthusiastic in my relationship with the Lord I am excited when I see Him working in the world.
Regarding the part about healing-- that very much relates back to the Scripture. We see that Jesus healed many who were ill, and so did the Apostles. There is nothing wrong with asking God to heal you from illness. At the same time, if He chooses not to heal us in the way that we ask, we must humbly submit to His will. The most important thing, in my opinion, is that we must seek first the Kingdom of God. Using your example, if we go to Fatima or Lourdes, we better be there to seek God first. As to your not being impressed with healing, I hold of the opposite opinion in that matter. All of God’s miracles are impressive to me. If you experience a miracle, or say, your terminally ill child/mother/spouse is suddenly completely well, maybe you will be more impressed.
I know someone who was healed over thirty years ago from a nerve disease that caused pain 24/7. Since that time, she has dedicated her life to prayer and the study of Scripture and taught hundreds of others how to come into a deep relationship with the Lord. God’s miracle healing does the same thing now as it did in Jesus’ time-- it brings people to the Lord and transforms hearts.
There are various tongues. One is for building up of the believer, it is called “praying in tongues”. Charismatics believe this is the Spirit coming to our aid because we do not know how to pray as we ought, He intercedes for us with unutterable expressions (cf.Rm 8:26) This often sounds like baby babble, which is funny because it takes childlike humility to use this gift. “Speaking in tongues” is when you speak another language, you don’t necessarily know you are doing it. It is done in community because you must have a separate person to interpret. (1 Cor 14:27) Interpretation of tongues is when you can suddenly interpret a language you never learned before. Both speaking and interpretation of tongues are in 1 Cor 12:10. Also, speaking in tongues is what happened at Pentecost.
PS. If you want to discuss Christianity, you will need to open a new thread. Forum rules are that each thread has to stay on its topic.
P
Prayer_Warrior
Guest
I can’t say daily, no, but only because I lack discipline.
But I do pray in tongues frequently, because I believe that the Spirit Himself is interceding on my behalf with that prayer. (Rm 8:26).My spiritual practice is generally to read a Scripture, and then write a meditation about that Scripture-- maybe how it applies to me, or what it means to me. Then I pray in tongues. Then I sit in silence and listen to the Lord. Then I write down whatever I feel He is saying or showing me (using discernment, of course) I have noticed that if I don’t take the time to pray in tongues, I have a harder time with the contemplation prayer. Praying in tongues always seems to bring me into a place of contemplation where I can sit and listen to the Lord, otherwise, I get distracted.
O
orang
Guest
Where is the verification for these claims of healing, they are a suggestion of not a few, but many miracle’s. Where is the report, I would like to read all the reports, sound like about 200 miracles.
I’m not impressed with suggesting healing without a full miracle investigation. Or impressed with someone who talks about it, even if true which is yet to be seen.
You say a gift talking in tongues, what kind of a gift communicates something, and that something requires another gift to understand the meaning ? It is out of order, is this not understood, out of order.
This is not Apostle time , communication gifts to spread the news . Are you saying God does not know we now have no end to communication tools ? Computers can even translate a note , any language across the globe in seconds, are you saying God does not know this , I would like a direct answer, please.
( I study the writings in the thread and it says its the devil that is trying to stop the movement, then the entry comes in and says, The Devil is always around, I fear this whole thing has become obsession with the devil and being a self exalting power channel evidence , quantity of miracles and fancy talk, also avoided all my good points…
C
Counterpoint
Guest
“Grieve not the Holy Spirit.” Ephesians 4:30
O
orang
Guest
Okay what I can say is that no one I know , including my whole family would be good with this. All I can see is a very bad and very ready suggestion bringing the evil more real, in an individuals journey.
The quantities of claimed healing carry the full suggestion of many many miracles.
It also makes a Saintly suggestion to the channel person, no matter what the channel person says.
Miracles need investigation. If there was in fact a miracle , the details would be sent to Rome right away *rest assured.
plus the mystic’s Ive read do not talk like this at all. Padre Pio was somewhat intuitive but he had the stigmata, there was something going on, plus a full ordained Priest.
Also what about regulation other then the channel person ?
. Also it sounds to myself the talking in tongues is not contemplative, nothing is understood. Saint Theresa was mentioned, she outlines the quiet prayer and discuss’s the great amount of time to say the lords Prayer. Not a mantra type of thing.
Once you guys start up with making a place for the devil, all it sounds like is an Oprah type of channel person. As well, the fancy talk around the issues of the belief.
So Im out of this, its my opinion. And had no intention of getting into it , good bye. Logging out .
The quantities of claimed healing carry the full suggestion of many many miracles.
It also makes a Saintly suggestion to the channel person, no matter what the channel person says.
Miracles need investigation. If there was in fact a miracle , the details would be sent to Rome right away *rest assured.
plus the mystic’s Ive read do not talk like this at all. Padre Pio was somewhat intuitive but he had the stigmata, there was something going on, plus a full ordained Priest.
Also what about regulation other then the channel person ?
. Also it sounds to myself the talking in tongues is not contemplative, nothing is understood. Saint Theresa was mentioned, she outlines the quiet prayer and discuss’s the great amount of time to say the lords Prayer. Not a mantra type of thing.
Once you guys start up with making a place for the devil, all it sounds like is an Oprah type of channel person. As well, the fancy talk around the issues of the belief.
So Im out of this, its my opinion. And had no intention of getting into it , good bye. Logging out .
C
Counterpoint
Guest
Why do you think Pentecostal/Charismatic Christianity is the fastest growing form of Christianity in the world?
po18guy
Well-known member
This world is the realm of the evil one. Even though he knows that he has lost the war, he still tries to win a few battles. We see that occurring even before the Incarnation, in the Book of Job. The devil can be anywhere on earth, as he is not limited by time or space. Pope Paul VI noted in the time after Vatican II that “the smoke of Satan seeps into the church through the cracks” The evil one is relentless, so we must be ever vigilant.
As to your impression of charismatic meetings being emotional to the point of going beyond normal order, I have not seen anything of that nature occurring. If it did occur, it should have been reported to the group leaders and/or the Bishop in that Diocese. I will be the first to admit that our efforts in the spiritual realm need guidance and supervision.
O
orang
Guest
Okay good and thanks for being specific and reading my thoughts.
Answer :and if it is on the wrong track I want to know. But I won’t be tricked or intimidated with things.
I know what a proper and positive Catholic environment is. The large family I come from in every way was very good. It was a family environment which was blessed. Many children and two parents from family with deep Catholic roots.
We would say the family rosary, there was a constructive and positive flow, the father well educated and a prof, all the children have done very well. The neighborhood was a picture perfect neighborhood to raise a family. Even the many neighbors who were Catholic and there families were not much different.
The high school , many many students in the two schools , one for male and the other for female. Run by Priests and Nuns for the girls school. They were highly educated, math teacher and priest-PHd in mathematics, Philosophy Teacher retired layman Prof Phd University, degree’s from harvard by Priests.
I cannot think on even one time the devil and the other subject Homosexuality were even mentioned in these fine educational centers.
Not even once can I remember giving the merit of a good amount of focus on these things for their attention and what follows -“consideration”.
So…either all this is a wrong environment to establish a beginning to a path which is "better…or it is not !
I thought Charismatic Renewal was about renewal,
what is Renewal ?
In Christianity it is being born again in the stable of self knowledge, virtue humility so that the ball can start rolling properly, is this not understood from a very basic psychological position ?
If there was a wanderer , wandering through the streets and came upon a good neighborhood…and was invited inside a good family home
what is the Father of the home going to do ?
continue with the emphasis in the good and allow the process to happen -with patience and good answering questions and guidance ?
or play games , virtually taking everything and making a mountain out of the properties of disorder ?
example is what this is all about in everything !
how can the spirit be the holy spirit with its distinct will, when the Holy Spirit is being
guided itself ?
( with respects to a movement being popular
so what, put your chin up and be, the world is one thing and The Ship is the Ship.
( I’m surprised with this and will say one more thing, In the last month I have tried to help two not one but TWO who have had emotional disturbance out of groups from church things and pressure re intimate suggestion… So with this , and the above explained reasoning, I have basically had it with the lack of order and what I’m trying to explain, a normal way to steer and inspire toward the good.
I truly thought Charismatic Renewal was good group inspired gatherings "open to the guidance of The Holy Spirit not trying to steer and guide the will of the Holy Spirit with what appear to be very specific and chosen demands, and includes specific themes including evil as a suggested fundamental premise, esp with the culture, confusion, emotional health problems stats on depression etc.
Answer :and if it is on the wrong track I want to know. But I won’t be tricked or intimidated with things.
I know what a proper and positive Catholic environment is. The large family I come from in every way was very good. It was a family environment which was blessed. Many children and two parents from family with deep Catholic roots.
We would say the family rosary, there was a constructive and positive flow, the father well educated and a prof, all the children have done very well. The neighborhood was a picture perfect neighborhood to raise a family. Even the many neighbors who were Catholic and there families were not much different.
The high school , many many students in the two schools , one for male and the other for female. Run by Priests and Nuns for the girls school. They were highly educated, math teacher and priest-PHd in mathematics, Philosophy Teacher retired layman Prof Phd University, degree’s from harvard by Priests.
I cannot think on even one time the devil and the other subject Homosexuality were even mentioned in these fine educational centers.
Not even once can I remember giving the merit of a good amount of focus on these things for their attention and what follows -“consideration”.
So…either all this is a wrong environment to establish a beginning to a path which is "better…or it is not !
I thought Charismatic Renewal was about renewal,
what is Renewal ?
In Christianity it is being born again in the stable of self knowledge, virtue humility so that the ball can start rolling properly, is this not understood from a very basic psychological position ?
If there was a wanderer , wandering through the streets and came upon a good neighborhood…and was invited inside a good family home
what is the Father of the home going to do ?
continue with the emphasis in the good and allow the process to happen -with patience and good answering questions and guidance ?
or play games , virtually taking everything and making a mountain out of the properties of disorder ?
example is what this is all about in everything !
how can the spirit be the holy spirit with its distinct will, when the Holy Spirit is being
guided itself ?
( with respects to a movement being popular
so what, put your chin up and be, the world is one thing and The Ship is the Ship.
( I’m surprised with this and will say one more thing, In the last month I have tried to help two not one but TWO who have had emotional disturbance out of groups from church things and pressure re intimate suggestion… So with this , and the above explained reasoning, I have basically had it with the lack of order and what I’m trying to explain, a normal way to steer and inspire toward the good.
I truly thought Charismatic Renewal was good group inspired gatherings "open to the guidance of The Holy Spirit not trying to steer and guide the will of the Holy Spirit with what appear to be very specific and chosen demands, and includes specific themes including evil as a suggested fundamental premise, esp with the culture, confusion, emotional health problems stats on depression etc.
O
orang
Guest
Yes and it is very simple, Jesus gave many directives, one was become as these children.
if its reflected on properly, it is easily observed the children were in a place of obedience and obvious cheerfulness for it, while also allowing the wisdom of The Word to be known.
But if it the directive or the quote is used in a selective way, along with other selective quotes, or without the first general shaping to get at the meaning, there is no point. For example the youngster who wants his or her own way, complains to the parent, I thought we are supposed to become as children. Anything can be justified in saying, no your wrong the message of Jesus is to love one another. Affection is relative to the structure of its origin or source. I can just love my neighbor if the neighbor is a bank robber and brings me some money . There is no structure to the admiration, it is out of order, selfish and wrong. All immorality is rooted in theft. And yes I’m Catholic, I skipped alter boy school because I have a good memory and was able to show full ability very early, and they allowed. If this is raised again, I will give his name, the Priest.
P
Prayer_Warrior
Guest
As far as I’m aware, the Church only investigates miracles when they are in the process of beatification or if a miracle is being attributed to an existing saint, and when an alleged miracle is associated with someone who might be leading Catholics astray. As it happens, my friend with the nerve disease was prayed over by Father Aloyisius whose cause for beatification is under way. Perhaps you can contact the Vatican and read their “reports”, but I suspect they will not be released until he is either beatified or denied beatification. I have the right to glorify God for everything I have personally witnessed. You have the right to not believe me. I do take exception to the remark about “self exalting” as I have only ever given God the full credit for what I have witnessed personally.
We were asked by the original poster about our experiences of the Charismatic Renewal and I answered the best I could. I qualified my answer in post 70 saying that I BELIEVE these are miracles of God and that I BELIEVE that they are for building up the community. Of course, I do not expect a person to just believe in a miracle they haven’t experienced. However, when I used the expression “by the grace of God”, that was meant to exalt HIM and no one else.
PS I do not know what a channel person is, I’m only a person who prays for other people.
We were asked by the original poster about our experiences of the Charismatic Renewal and I answered the best I could. I qualified my answer in post 70 saying that I BELIEVE these are miracles of God and that I BELIEVE that they are for building up the community. Of course, I do not expect a person to just believe in a miracle they haven’t experienced. However, when I used the expression “by the grace of God”, that was meant to exalt HIM and no one else.
PS I do not know what a channel person is, I’m only a person who prays for other people.
Y
ynotzap
Guest
It is perfectly justified to quote the Bible in order to reinforce the truth by the word of God especially when it applies to a particular situation, such as the Charismatic Renewal. I take it that you think that the Renewal is getting away from the traditional teachings of the Church and isn’t legitimate, or true. The Church has always adjusted to the needs of the times, but retains all her doctrines.These adjustments are inspired by the Holy Spirit, and not properly understood as in your case.(don’t feel alone) You are inclined to make snap judgements that usually come from young thinkers (no criticism intended just a fact of life) It is not required of anyone to join a Charismatic Renewal. The testimony you received comes from the sincere minds and hearts of the Faithful, and doesn’t need the Approval of the Church regarding any healing or miracle. No one is required to believe the testimony. But personally if I didn’t give my testimony I would fail in gratitude to God, and fail to give my sincere witness to my Catholic faith I would also fail to share.God’s gifts with my brothers and sisters I would also be responsible for the talents and gifts God gave me in order to spread His Kingdom. It doesn’t matter to me that people might not believe me, but it does incline me to feel sad. Jesus wasn’t believed by some, either and He wept over Jerusalem, How He would have gathered them like chicks under the wing, but they would not, so their house is left to them desolate If Jesus suffered this who am I not to do the same, as every true believer suffers.
O
orang
Guest
Heres what I believe.
An individual with a well informed conscience would NOT
a) use talking in tongues which is not even understood -what is being said alongside guiding people who are reaching out .
b) pronounced devil emphasis, and healing matters,
in a society that is flooded with violence in the games on the internet, in the media with zero morals, and evidence of all, in the horrific events which we know come about. and we know saturated with emotional issues , drugs etc…That is what I believe.
A movement can’t even get to a door if it cannot even understand the psychology of what it is attempting to address.
You guys don’t even understand the philosophy of Christianity and immorality.
How about yourselves, I answered now its your turn. When did you all become Catholic ?
and if its ok…what Church are you guys from before becoming Catholic, what was the belief ?
so far I am getting bad vibes here.
An individual with a well informed conscience would NOT
a) use talking in tongues which is not even understood -what is being said alongside guiding people who are reaching out .
b) pronounced devil emphasis, and healing matters,
in a society that is flooded with violence in the games on the internet, in the media with zero morals, and evidence of all, in the horrific events which we know come about. and we know saturated with emotional issues , drugs etc…That is what I believe.
A movement can’t even get to a door if it cannot even understand the psychology of what it is attempting to address.
You guys don’t even understand the philosophy of Christianity and immorality.
How about yourselves, I answered now its your turn. When did you all become Catholic ?
and if its ok…what Church are you guys from before becoming Catholic, what was the belief ?
so far I am getting bad vibes here.
C
CB_Catholic
Guest
I really think you are being rather disrespectful of other’s style of worship here, esp. since the Church has given it’s approval. You don’t have to like the Charismatic Renewal–fine–but you do not know better than the Church. If you say that you do, you are in error. Why don’t you just leave it alone and worship as you please and the Charismatics will worship in the way they please, which has the approval of the Church? These threads always turn into rather nasty debates, which is why some of the forums here do not allow discussion of this subject.
As for me, I am Catholic and always have been. I have been around the Renewal since 1980. I have never received the gift of tongues, but I have received other gifts which are in no way to glorify me, but to serve and glorify God alone.
C
CHRISTINE77
Guest
I think Charismatic Catholics are really filled with the Holy Spirit. I’m not too sure what I think about talking in tongues as a manifestation of being filled with the Holy Spirit; more the elation and feeling full the love of God when people sing and praise Him. There’s one song that Michael Talbot sings with his church: “Come Holy Spirit, let your fire fall!” that is simply beautiful. It appeals to me. Sometimes regular Catholic worship seems a little cold and formulaic, whereas Charismatics seem to be full of joy and praise. In any case, I love to sing - it’s my favorite part of worship.
O
orang
Guest
Its a devil emphasis I’m reading, if your a Catholic then WHY wouldn’t the entry go back and admonish that style of worship ?
O
orang
Guest
I outlined what would be proper in an earlier post for a Charasmatic Renewal
and so far it stands because it has not been even acknowledged , in service to all this get along junk.
and so far it stands because it has not been even acknowledged , in service to all this get along junk.
po18guy
Well-known member
If your intent is to kill this discussion, you are doing a very good job.
Sadly, lack of understanding is what kills most discussion of the charisms of the Holy Spirit.
Please read the catechism, sections 797-801. Please note that the preacher of the Pope’s household is a charismatic priest.
O
orang
Guest
Okay that is my opinion and it includes the society which is what it is.
There is no way this translation of belief as Ive read here should be around the youngsters. So there should be an age restriction over 21.
As described it has been said in this thread,
" I can have any gift from the Holy Spirit I want "
along with comments such as the Devil is everywhere and quotes gathered from scripture in order to dramatize and accentuate the issue of evil.
there is no consideration for the essence of human development and very basic known s where people are reaching out and in suffer for various reasons or, for greater understanding in the human becoming.
Attacks
a) disrespectful
b) if your Catholic
A proper Catholic setting would be in the manner of opening the door to the gifts in the belief, not pretending an individual can have any gift they “want” . Emphasis in evil is completely un-acceptable for already explained reasons.
Also,
my conscience is clear and I have voiced the concern to this society where tragedy has become what it is.
Thankyou and I hope things can get more stable in this area in the future… To be honest I think the RCC which I belong would be wise to offer 24-7 camera on all group and individual meetings. And in no circumstance’s would any gathering be without 24-7 camera. Anyone can come on line or join a church, say do or pretend to be anyone over the course of a short while, and this society is topped to the brim with very clever and creative wolves hunting down in any way they can. This entry explains what has been drawn out, in reading this thread only.
There is no way this translation of belief as Ive read here should be around the youngsters. So there should be an age restriction over 21.
As described it has been said in this thread,
" I can have any gift from the Holy Spirit I want "
along with comments such as the Devil is everywhere and quotes gathered from scripture in order to dramatize and accentuate the issue of evil.
there is no consideration for the essence of human development and very basic known s where people are reaching out and in suffer for various reasons or, for greater understanding in the human becoming.
Attacks
a) disrespectful
b) if your Catholic
A proper Catholic setting would be in the manner of opening the door to the gifts in the belief, not pretending an individual can have any gift they “want” . Emphasis in evil is completely un-acceptable for already explained reasons.
Also,
my conscience is clear and I have voiced the concern to this society where tragedy has become what it is.
Thankyou and I hope things can get more stable in this area in the future… To be honest I think the RCC which I belong would be wise to offer 24-7 camera on all group and individual meetings. And in no circumstance’s would any gathering be without 24-7 camera. Anyone can come on line or join a church, say do or pretend to be anyone over the course of a short while, and this society is topped to the brim with very clever and creative wolves hunting down in any way they can. This entry explains what has been drawn out, in reading this thread only.
C
CHRISTINE77
Guest
Wow, it certainly seems that the Holy Spirit is not filling you!
- Status