Catholic Church and freemasonary?

[workingman]

I still have not received an answer to my question. Why was Freemasonry never mentioned, let alone banned, prior to 1738?

It is no coincidence that this coincides EXACTLY with the publication of Dr Anderson’s second Book of Constitutions which de-Christianised the Moderns system of Freemasonry.

And we still have not received a answer to the burden of proof saying that the Pope is OK with your group and that it does not conflict with the CC.

 

[PeterClatworthy]

And we still have not received a answer to the burden of proof saying that the Pope is OK with your group and that it does not conflict with the CC.

You have had an EXACT answer. We cannot demand a letter from your Bishop of Rome. You can. Go ahead. The status quo remains until and unless he does, with his reasons.

It is so obvious that you are just being difficult.

1. You don’t really need to answer. The fact that you will not answer is quite sufficient.

Catholics were encouraged to be Freemasons prior to 1738 because Freemasonry itself was overwhelmingly Catholic and/or Jacobean, based in York, and in support of Catholic succession to the throne of England.

"The other thing that we have to remember is that Catholics, in those days, could be Freemasons. In fact, it was the only organization in England that afforded them equality within society since the day King James VII of the Scots (James II of England) had been deposed. (He had wanted everyone within the boundaries of his kingdoms to worship according to their own conscience.)

"With the Stewarts out of the political picture in Britain, “liberty of conscience” and the concept of equality were firmly ousted. This meant that politics reverted back to the status quo, and no one but Anglicans had any rights at all.

"In order to retain this status quo, all lodges in England, or as many as possible, were to be taken over, subverted, even eradicated if necessary. Although 1717 saw a new, London-based Masonic impetus, working to restore the Stewarts to their rightful inheritance, the plan was foiled after the failure of the Atterbury plot to overthrow George I in 1722.

In 1723, at the end of the Duke of Wharton’s (sic Catholic) grand mastership, the Grand Lodge of England was taken over by Hanoverian infiltrators." * (SOURCE: The Knights Templar of the Middle East by Michael James Alexander Stewart and Walid Amine Salhab, published by Weiser, 2007)*

Religion/Politics/History.

 

[workingman]

You have had an EXACT answer. We cannot demand a letter from your Bishop of Rome. You can. Go ahead. The status quo remains until and unless he does, with his reasons.

It is so obvious that you are just being difficult.

1. You don’t really need to answer. The fact that you will not answer is quite sufficient.

Catholics were encouraged to be Freemasons prior to this because Freemasons were overwhelmingly Catholic and/or Jacobean, based in York, and in support of Catholic succession to the throne of England.

History.

You can ask for a letter from the Holy See. They would if they approved your group if there is not a issue. So you also are being difficult. The shoe fits two ways. You are selling so you should supply the proof.

Give me a none biased source or I can just toss names around to.

 

[PeterClatworthy]

I am not selling you anything. I couldn’t care less whether you accept what I say or not. I am here to educate you, but I cannot force you. If the Pope wishes to change the status quo where we do not have any problem whatsoever, then it is up to him, and you. We have no need.

I have quoted you unbiased sources. I will do so again. Here are just a few, selected to give you an idea of what went on before the Papal Bull of 1738. Freemasonry was not mentioned by the Holy See prior to this date. FACT.

“The Druidical College of Derry was converted into a Culdee Monastery. About the year 561 Columba and twelve companions left Ireland to build the Monastery of Icolmkill (sic Iona), and Masonic legend assigns the lectures of Harodim to this Monastery; they founded Colleges at Govan and Kilwinning.” (SOURCE: The Druids and the Politics of Celtic Scholarship, John Toland: 1670-1722)

“Icolmkill - An island situated near the Hebrides, to the south; once the seat of the Order of the Culdees, and containing the ruins of a monastery of St Columba, founded A.D. 565. It was here, according to tradition, that the rite of Heredom originated.” (SOURCE: The Royal Masonic Cyclopaedia of History, Rites, Symbolism, and Biography, published by J.W. Bolton, Kenneth R.H. MacKenzie: New York, 1877)

“The Celtic Church in Ireland and in Scotland owed its origin not to Rome, but to Egypt and the East; its customs, traditions, methods, government came from Egypt through Athanasius of Alexandria, Hilary, Martin of Tours, Ninian, and through that religious channel, more than a little independent of Rome. The religious ideas of Egypt came to Scotland and Ireland and were absorbed easily into the tribal life of these countries. There is no doubt that the Celtic Church owed its ritual, its architecture, its worship and its law to Syria, Egypt and Palestine, and that its allegiance to Rome was slight.” (SOURCE: Paper delivered to the Ecclesiastical Society, Church life in the time of St Blane by the Very Rev’d Dr James Hutchison Cockburn, ecclesiasical historian and Minister of Dunbland Cathedral: 1959)

“From a Masonic document now in my possession, I can prove that no very long time ago the Culdees of York were Freemasons, that they constituted the Grand Lodge of England, and that they held their meetings in the Crypt under the great Cathedral of that city. The circular chapter-house did very well for ordinary business, but the Secret Mysteries were carried on in the crypts. The Lodge, which was the Grand Lodge of All England, had been held under the Cathedral in the Crypt at York.” (SOURCE: p.718, Anacalypsis Vol. 1, Godfrey Higgins: 1833-1836.)

"He affirms that he can prove this from a manuscript then in his possession. “I searched,” he says, "the Masonic records in London, and I found a document which upon the face of it seemed to shew that the GRAND LODGE of all England had been held under the Cathedral in the Crypt of York.* (SOURCE: pp. 50 & 51, Secret Traditions in Freemasonry, published by Rebman Limited, Arthur Edward Waite: London 1911)*

"In England they occur nowhere but at St Peter’s, in York, as mentioned above. At York, Athelstane found them, and gave them his friendship and protection. It is said that he employed them in building churches, convents and castles. Archbishop Usher and others treat of this subject, but the old writers on the papal side of the question are said to have purposely avoided making mention of the Culdees. This sect was first spoken of in connection with the Masonic society by Ignatius Aurelius Fessler, a distinguished Masonic writer of Germany. * (SOURCE: p.369, Masonic Eclectic or Gleanings from the Harvest Field of Masonic Literature Part 2, John W. Simons: 1860)*

"This church and the civilization introduced by the Romans were swept away by the Picts and Saxons, and the members, called Culdees, were compelled to hide in the wilderness of Wales, Scotland, Ireland, and the small islands between Great Britain and Ireland; chiefly in Anglesey and Iona, where they preserved their Apostolic institutions, which were modeled after the most ancient Christian church, which, it is well known, was the secret or Masonic form. * (SOURCE: The Mysteries of Britain: Secret Rites and Traditions of Ancient Britain Restored: 1905) *

“… the Gothic Builders died out and their Lodges relaxed into small social gatherings, but in the North of England where there were Lodges in the jurisdiction of York, the Lodges continued the Harodim, or Masters’ Fraternity, of which Gould in his large history affords ancient proofs.” (SOURCE: Part 6, Chapter XI, The Arcane Schools, The System Termed High-Grade Speculative Freemasonry, John Yarker: 1909)

“The Culdees of York was the name borne by the Canons Regular of St Peter’s of York about AD 925.” St Peter’s of York, York Minster: Cathedral and Metropolitical Church of St Peter in York (SOURCE: p.615, Volume V07, Encyclopaedia Brittanica 11th edition: 1911)

"The Culdees were artisans. They were also married, although living under quasi masonic rule. In 924 the English King Athelstane, being to set forth on a campaign against Constantine, King of Scotland, passed through York, where he found the Culdees in possession of the monastery and Church of St Peter. Having ordered their prayers for his success and returned victorious, he confirmed them in many important privileges.

"The circumstantial traditions of the period have it that from the congregations of the Culdees at York arose the early Masonic lodges of Britain to which King Athelstane, at the instigation of a member of his family, granted franchises or charters in 934.

Contd. on next post …

 

[PeterClatworthy]

Contd …

“… Can it, indeed, have been the Culdees who carried the sciences of antiquity over the black gulf of mediaeval disregard?” (SOURCE: Ancient Freemasonry: An Introduction to Masonic Archeology, The Culdees as Early Masons, by Frank Higgins: New York, 1919)

The Culdees of York were among the guardians of the Masonic tradition in the tenth century, and the Old Charges tell us that an assembly of Masons was held at York during the reign of King Athelstan, when a reorganization of the Craft took place. (SOURCE: A New Encyclopaedia of Freemasonry (Ars Magna Latomorum) and of Cognate Instituted Mysteries: Their Rites, Literature, and History, Arthur Edward Waite: 1921)

"At their peak the Culdees were most prominent in Scotland where they had monasteries in St. Andrews, Dunkeld and Lochleven. They had members also in Ireland, but it is the body which established itself at York which most concerns us. These particular members of the order certainly interested themselves a great deal with the masons who were engaged in the building of the first Minster at York, of which they were in charge in the days of King Athelstan. Athelstan, son of Edward the Elder and grandson of Alfred the Great, was king between **925 & 941 AD. Himself a worshipper at York in the years around 936, he gave the Culdees certain grants of land as a thanks offering for his successes in battle, notably in subduing parts of Cornwall and Wales, and in 937, defeating the combined forces of the Welsh, Scots and Danes at Bruananburg. It is also reputed in the Old Masonic Charges that he granted a charter to the masons to hold an assembly every year." (SOURCE: The Roots of Freemasonry by Trevor Jenkins, Nautilus Lodge 4259, United Grand Lodge of England)

"In the **12th century **the Roman Catholic Church began to take a real interest in Ireland. Therefore, that Celtic Church in Ireland was not of Papal origin. Patrick (sic St Patrick) had endeavoured to convert pagan Judaistic Ireland before even the Roman Catholic Church had taken hold on the people. Dr. O’Donovan, upon the Four Masters, states in fact that, "Nothing is clearer than that Patrick engrafted Christianity on the pagan superstitions with so much skill that he won the people over to the Christian religion before they understood the exact difference between the two systems of beliefs; and much of this half pagan, half Christian religion will be found, not only in the Irish stories of the Middle Ages, but in the superstitions of the peasanrty of the present day.

"Was Patrick a converted Druid? Well we do know that from the Annals of the Kingdom by the Four Masters he had a Druidic Master/Tutor, Milcho, and perhaps knowing the doctrine of the old religion helped him develop a path of revival and lead the people away from quasi-Levitic rites and ceremonies to real spiritual Christianity and the worship of Christ.

“Finally, according to O’Driscoll, the Christian Church in Ireland as founded by St. Patrick, existed for many centuries free and unshackled and differed in many points from Rome. From the days of Patrick to King Henry’s Council of Cashel in 1172 was a bright and glorious career for Ireland. The ancient Celtic unfettered church was made bondage to the Papal throne from then on.” (SOURCE: Patrick, the Druids, and the Celtic Church)

"It was described by Collyer & Turner (1855) “… to have been a Council or Moot Assembly place” - and we find this confirmed to a great extent via the township perambulation records. Considerable evidence points to an early masonic group convening here in medieval times and we are certain from historical records that members of the legendary Grand Lodge of All England (said to be ordained in the tenth century by King Athelstan) met here, or at the adjacent Great Skirtful of Stone giant cairns 400 yards East.* (SOURCE: The Northern Antiquarian: Megalithic Sites, Holy Wells & Ancient Remains of Northern Britain, Roms Law Circle (moot or meeting place). Burley Moor, West Yorkshire) *

“After the establishment of the Kilwinning (c. AD 1140) and York Lodges (AD 926) the jurisdiction and antiquity of the Grand Lodge of York over other English Lodges has invariably been acknowledged by the whole Fraternity, the principles of Freemasonry rapidly spread throughout both Kingdoms and several Lodges were erected in different parts of the island.” * (SOURCE: A Brief History of Lodge Mother Kilwinning No. 0, Grand Lodge of Scotland, June 1944) *

contd. on next post …

 

[PeterClatworthy]

Contd …

**1155-1199 **- "The order of **Knights Templar *was instituted during the crusades, in the year 1118, by Hugo de Paganis, and Geoffrey of St Omers … Though the professed object of this religious association was to protect those Christian pilgrims, whose mistaken piety had led them to the Holy City; yet it is almost beyond a doubt, that its chief and primary intention, was to practise and preserve the rites and mysteries of Masonry. We know at least, that the Knights Templars, not only possessed the mysteries, but performed the ceremonies, and inculcated the duties of Free Masons. * (SOURCE: p.59, The History of Freemasonry Drawn from Authentic Sources of Information, by Alexander Lawrie, 1804)

“… in the year 1429, during the minority of Henry VI a respectable Lodge was held at Canterbury, under the patronage of Henry Chicheley, the Archbishop: At which were present Thomas Stapylton, the Master; John Morris, custos de la Lodge Lathomorum, or Warden of the Lodge of Masons; with fifteen fellow crafts, and three entered apprentices, all of whom are particularly named.” * (SOURCES: Latin Register of William Molart, Prior of Canterbury, in Manuscript, Pap. 88, p.133 entitled, “Liberatio Generalis Domini Gulielmi Prioris Ecclesiae Christi Cantuariensis, erga Fastum Matalis Domini”, 1429: Tanner Manuscript 165, Bodleian Library, Oxford)*

“In 1442 King Henry VI developed several questions for Masons regarding the mysteries of their reception and the object of their studies. Satisfied with their answers, he was admitted to the Fraternity, protected it, constituted old charters concerning its privileges, and approved them, in the opinion of his council. He applied to the study of art and all the lords of the court followed his example. He appointed, in 1443, as Grand Master William Wanafleet, bishop of Winchester: who built at his expense the college of Magdalene, in Oxford, and a great number of religious buildings.” (SOURCE: Acta Latomorum ou Chronologie de l’Histoire de la Franche-Maçonnerie Française et Étrangére by Claude Antoine Thory, Paris 1784)

“On Henry VI’s accession, Chicheley, Archbishop of Canterbury, presided over the society. We have records of a lodge held at Canterbury, under his patronage, where Thos. Stapylton was master, and the names of the wardens and other brethren are given. This was in 1429, four years after an act of parliament, passed early in the reign of Henry VI against the meetings of the society, which was caused by the enmity of Cardinal Beaufort, Bishop of Winchester, towards Humphrey, Duke of Gloucester, the king’s uncle, a great patron of the craft. But this act was never enforced, and in 1442 the king was himself initiated, and he patronised the society.” (SOURCE: The Freemasons’ Pocket Companion, History of Freemasonry in England by Apollo Lodge No.711 Oxford, United Grand Lodge of England, independently reported by The Mirror of Literature, Amusement and Instruction, Vol. 17, Issue 491, May 28 1831)

“In 1688 Wren was elected Grand Master of the order, and he nominated his old fellow-workers at St. Paul’s, Cibber, the sculptor, and Strong, the master mason, Grand Wardens. In Queen Anne’s reign (1665-1714) there were 129 lodges—eighty-six in London, thirty-six in provincial cities, and seven abroad.” (SOURCE: British History Online, Chapter XXII - St Paul’s Churchyard. British History Online is the digital library containing core printed primary and secondary sources for the medieval and modern history of the British Isles created by the Institute of Historical Research and the History of Parliament Trust)

“This Constitution (sic Moderns 1723) is based upon the charter of York, which, of all others, has served as a guide for all those which have been established since A.D. 926. Into this constitution were carried otherwise the changes and the developments which were rendered indispensable by the new object of the society, and properly above all was caused to predominate the supremacy of the Grand Lodge of London. This last tendency, so much to be, in this our own day, deprecated, but proves that the authors were not penetrated by the true spirit of the Charter of York.” * (SOURCE: A General History of Freemasonry in Europe, Page 96, translated and compiled from the Masonic Histories of Emmanuel Rebold, M.D., by J. Fletcher Brennan, Editor of The American Freemasons Magazine, 1869) *

Contd on next post …

 

[PeterClatworthy]

Contd …

“Anderson was one of the originators of the (sic Moderns) London Grand Lodge, and as a man of strong prejudices he was biased in all his inditings, evidences of which are seen throughout his two publications on every possible occasion, in the omission of historical facts, or giving the contrary construction to, and diverting attention in cases reflecting unfavourably upon the New Grand Lodge. The Books of Anderson, however, are almost universally accepted by the Masonic fraternity as containing a true history of Freemasonry, at least from the time our review commences, and the Ancient Charges, especially those contained in the 1723 edition, are as generally adopted as the fundamental law and basis of Masonic principles. But notwithstanding Anderson’s Books of Constitutions were published by order of the London Grand Lodge, with its approval and sanction, yet no more untrustworthy, unreliable books were ever printed under the direction of any organised association. We affirm that Anderson is not to be credited. The Books of Constitutions were written purposely to deceive, to mislead and misrepresent facts as they existed; and if his reports of Grand Lodge Proceedings are true copies of Grand Lodge Records, then the records were corrupted with the design to mislead the reader.” (SOURCE: Freemasonry in England from 1567 to 1813, Ancient York and London Grand Lodges , pages 15 and 16, by Leon Hyneman, 1877)

"The other thing that we have to remember is that Catholics, in those days, could be Freemasons. In fact, it was the only organization in England that afforded them equality within society since the day King James VII of the Scots (James II of England) had been deposed. (He had wanted everyone within the boudaries of his kingdoms to worship according to their own conscience.) With the Stewarts out of the political picture in Britain, “liberty of conscience” and the concept of equality were firmly ousted. This meant that politics reverted back to the status quo, and no one but Anglicans had any rights at all. In order to retain this status quo, all lodges in England, or as many as possible, were to be taken over, subverted, even eradicated if necessary. Although 1717 saw a new, London-based Masonic impetus, working to restore the Stewarts to their rightful inheritance, the plan was foiled after the failure of the Atterbury plot to overthrow George I in 1722. In 1723, at the end of the Duke of Wharton’s (sic Catholic) grand mastership, the Grand Lodge of England was taken over by Hanoverian infiltrators.* (SOURCE: The Knights Templar of the Middle East by Michael James Alexander Stewart and Walid Amine Salhab, published by Weiser, 2007)*

“Politics and religion were not discussed, as the masons seemed to be following the advice of “that Author” (a reference to Anderson, whose Constitutions had been published…). But at one point the band had begun to play “Let the King enjoy his own again,” a popular Jacobite (and thus seditious) tune. The Tories were getting cheeky, talking politics might be banned, but music could make a political point. The band was “immediately reprimanded by a Person of great Gravity and Science,” which surely means Desaguliers. After that, Hanoverian decorum was restored - and indeed emphasized.” (SOURCE: Report of the Feast of The Grand Lodge of London, 1722, James Anderson: Man and Mason, Volume 10, by David Stevenson, 2002)

"In 1738

Anderson brought out a second edition which was intended to replace the earlier one altogether, but it was a slovenly performance and the regulations were printed in so confused a manner, being all mixed up with notes and endorsements (many inaccurately stated), that it was difficult to make head or tail of them and to ascertain what was the law of the Craft. He also re-wrote the history entirely and greatly expanded it, introducing so many absurdities that Gould has suggested that he was deliberately fooling the Grand Lodge, or in the alternative he was in himself in his dotage. He died very shortly after. But this same ridiculous history has done duty in all seriousness till comparatively recent years, being brought up to date by Preston and others who were apparently quite unconscious of its true value. Unfortunately that portion of the history which professed to give an account of the proceedings of Grand Lodge and for which the official minutes were at Anderson’s disposal is full of what one must consider wilful inaccuracies and misstatements." (SOURCE: Anderson’s Constitutions of 1723 by Lionel Vibert)

It cannot be clearer. It just needs you to suggest why you believe that the Holy See remained totally silent until 1738, the year of the publication of Dr Anderson’s “New Book of Constitutions” of the Moderns.

It would not have been possible for Catholic Popes NOT to know EXACTLY what was going on, for two reasons.

They were at the very centre of the politics of Europe.

Free Masons built your Abbeys, your Cathedrals and your Churches using Sacred Geometry under the direction of Masonic Priests and Monks. (See: Sacred Geometry: Symbolism and Purpose in Religious Structures by Nigel Pennick.) You could not have done so without us. Not very grateful are you?

 

[NeelyAnn]

From Catholics United for the Faith:

Can Catholics Be Freemasons?

cuf.org/faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=103

ISSUE: May Catholics be Freemasons?

RESPONSE: No, Catholics may not be Freemasons because of this group’s “irreconcilable” opposition to Jesus Christ and His Catholic Church.[1] Nor may they belong to the Order of the Eastern Star (a Masonic association for women), the Order of DeMolay (for boys), or Job’s Daughters or the Rainbow Girls (for girls). Popes Clement XII (1738), Benedict XIV (1751), Pius VII (1821), Leo XII (1825), Pius VIII (1829), Gregory XVI (1832), Pius IX (1846, 1849, 1864, 1865, 1869, 1873), and Leo XIII (1882, 1884, 1890, 1894, 1902) have repeated the prohibition against joining Masonic associations. The old Code of Canon Law (1917) imposed excommunication upon Catholics who became masons. Recent Vatican directives under Pope John Paul II have reaffirmed the long-standing ban.

DISCUSSION: Because the new Code of Canon Law (1983) did not explicitly excommunicate Catholics who become Freemasons, some confusion arose concerning whether Catholics may join Masonic groups. To address the confusion, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, with the approval of Pope John Paul II, declared that:

**the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic associations remains unchanged **since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church, and therefore membership with them remains forbidden. **The faithful who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.[2] **

** From the outset, one must understand that Freemasonry is not simply a social club. Freemasonry is itself a religion, though many Masons may deny it. The Masons hold a specific set of beliefs, the “truth” of which they claim can be discovered through human reason. In contrast, Christians do not believe that all truth can be discovered by mere reason (Catechism of the Catholic Church, nos. 50-100.)**

  Masons believe in the fatherhood of God, the brotherhood of mankind, and the immortality of the soul. Masons may belong to any religion as long as they believe the tenets of Freemasonry. So, **even though they treat other religions as if they are equal, Freemasonry has primacy, superseding other religions if there is a conflict regarding doctrine or practice.** In addition, it would seem inconceivable to most people that they could claim to be both Catholic and Hindu, Presbyterian and Muslim, etc. But that is, in essence, what a “Catholic Mason” does, and that is why Freemasonry is so dangerous: It slowly insinuates Masonic beliefs and practices into the lives of Catholics and others.

  Freemasonry is not a Christian religion. On the contrary, the Masons espouse beliefs that are incompatible with the teachings of Christ and His apostles. The Masons ask their members to keep to themselves all beliefs concerning Jesus Christ, the Bible, and the authority of the Church (contrast with Rom. 10:14, 17; Mk. 16:15). The Catechism states that “the social duty of Christians is to respect and awaken in each man the love of the true and the good. It requires them to make known the worship of the one true religion which subsists in the Catholic and apostolic Church” (no., 2105). The importance of evangelization is stressed often by Jesus and His apostles (Mt. 28:18-20; Lk. 8:1; Acts 8:12, 8:35, 10:36-43, 13:32, 14:15).The religion of Freemasonry acts to impede Christian evangelization and thus acts directly against one of the most basic tenants of Catholicism.

  The Freemasons do not promote one particular philosophical or religious truth above another, except their own idea that man is his own light of truth. This is contrary to Christ’s teaching in Jn. 14:6: “I am the way, the truth, and the life” (see also Ps. 18:28, 27:1, 43:3, 86:11, 118:27, 119:105). Pope Leo XIII wrote the following on the primary purpose of Freemasonry: “For they deny that anything has been taught by God; they allow no dogma of religion or truth which cannot be understood by human intelligence nor any teacher who ought to be believed by reason of his authority.”[3] 

  A religion that denies that anything has been taught or revealed by God is obviously deficient, not to mention blasphemous (see Mt. 16:18, 28:18-20; 1 Tim. 3:15; 1 Cor. 2:9-13; Ps. 71:17; Is. 54:5, 13; Jn. 6:45, 16:13).

  Another conflict between the Church and the Freemasons concerns the amount of secrecy surrounding the group and its actions. Freemasonry has built a solid and tightly sealed front, windows closed and shades drawn. This secrecy places the members in danger, in particular Catholics, since perspective members cannot enter into the organization with their eyes open to all the possible commitments and expectations.

  Christ said to His apostles, “No one can serve two masters” (Mt. 6:24). Catholics should heed this warning. It is impossible for a Christian to straddle the worlds of two different religions, especially two which are so obviously at odds with one another in terms of belief and practice.

 

[NeelyAnn]

Author Explains Why Catholics Can’t Be Freemasons

By JOHN P. CONNOLLY
The Bulletin
Published: Wednesday, May 13, 2009

On April 28, 1738, Pope Clement XIII issued a papal bull declaring any Catholic who participated in Freemasonry would be automatically excommunicated.

The Catholic Church reaffirmed his declaration numerous times, the most recent being under Pope John Paul II in 1983.

Yet many Catholics are unaware of the Church’s ban against joining Freemasonry, or think the prohibition was handed down only for political reasons.

John Salza, a Catholic apologist and author, and former 32nd-degree Freemason, said the Church’s objections to Freemasonry are theologically based.

Mr. Salza, who runs the Web site scripturecatholic.com, recently wrote a book titled Why Catholics Cannot Be Masons, to explain the underlying reasons for the Church’s prohibition to Catholics.

His book was published by TAN Books and Publishers late last year and carries an imprimatur, an official license by the Catholic Church to print a religious book, which was issued by Bishop Thomas Doran of Rockford, Ill. Mr. Salza said his book is the only one on Freemasonry he knows of with such a credential.

“When I graduated from law school, I was solicited to join Freemasonry by some Catholic men I knew,” said Mr. Salza. “Masonry claims you’re never to solicit, to be one you have to ask one. But I was solicited very aggressively. They presented Freemasonry to me as a way to expand my business networking, as a social thing.”

Mr. Salza said he wrote his book because many Catholics are confused about Freemasonry. Many priests, in addition to laity, are unaware their parishioners who are members of Masonic organizations cannot receive communion.

“I wasn’t clear on [the Church’s teachings on Freemasonry], and I called my parish priest,” said Mr. Salza. “He said he hadn’t studied the matter and didn’t understand the Church’s teaching on it.”

Mr. Salza became very involved in Freemasonry, rising through the ranks of its Scottish Rite, where he achieved its highest rank, the 32nd degree.

He joined the Shriners, an organization composed of Freemasons and was awarded the “Proficiency Card” by the Grand Lodge of Wisconsin. The card is a rare credential that designated Mr. Salza as an expert in Masonic ritual and authorized him to teach the rituals to Masons and Masonic lodges. Mr. Salza says he received this credential faster than anyone in Wisconsin’s history.

Through his familiarity with Masonic ritual, Mr. Salza said he became uncomfortable with what Freemasonry taught about God.

“Everything is superficial until you get in the lodge and learn what the ritual is teaching,” said Mr. Salza. “Freemasonry teaches that man can be saved without belief in Jesus Christ. When I realized that, I became a walking contradiction. I had to solve that contradiction by leaving.”

Mr. Salza’s current efforts as a Christian apologist working with Scripture grew directly out of his exploration of what the Catholic Church teaches on Freemasonry.

“When I began studying the Catholic positions on Freemasonry, I studied not only the Catholic, but the Protestant arguments against it also,” he said. “As I studied the Protestant positions against Freemasonry, I began uncovering the Protestant arguments against the Catholic faith. In my search for the truth about Freemasonry, I broadened my search for truth in general. I began accumulating Scripture quotes and quotes from the early fathers in support of the Catholic faith.”

Mr. Salza said there are a number of reasons why men are attracted to Freemasonry. Some join to satisfy curiosity about what Freemasonry is really about, and others join seeking to become leaders in the Lodge. For others, the draw is social, with the opportunity to develop business and social networks.

“Masons swear an oath of secrecy, that’s why there’s ignorance of their teachings,” said Mr. Salza. “Masonry is very successful in keeping its teachings secret. I felt a calling from God to share the knowledge that I have accumulated. Before me, there was never a Catholic who joined Freemasonry and left the lodge to start writing about it.”

Mr. Salza said it helps to explain to some Catholic Masons what the Church teaches, but admitted that not all of them will listen to that alone.

“Some men do know what the Church teaches, but rationalize it,” said Mr. Salza. “I haven’t tried to beat them up with theological arguments, but to appeal to their intellects. Freemasonry places all religions on the same level. If I can get him to admit that that’s an erroneous teaching, I can get somewhere with him… Christianity says that Jesus was divine, and Islam says that He was not. Masonry holds both those positions. Anybody with some modicum of intelligence will recognize that that’s a contradiction.”

Mr. Salza also said that it’s not cliché to say that prayer and lots of prayer is needed in that situation as well.

“We have to work on the rational level,” he said, “but also the supernatural level, begging God to help men break their bonds to Freemasonry.”

John P. Connolly can be reached at jconnolly@thebulletin.us

 

[NeelyAnn]

John Salza’s FAQs on Freemasonry can be found here.

John Salza’a FREEMASONRY—Q&A can be found here.

If anyone has quesions about free masonry and Peter’s group, I recommend you email your questions to John at: johnsalza@scripturecatholic.com

 

[PeterClatworthy]

Typical. Whatever you do don’t deal with the issue. Silence those who do not agree with you. Goebbels would be very proud.

 

[PeterClatworthy]

Author Explains Why Catholics Can’t Be Freemasons

By JOHN P. CONNOLLY
The Bulletin
Published: Wednesday, May 13, 2009

On April 28, 1738, Pope Clement XIII issued a papal bull declaring any Catholic who participated in Freemasonry would be automatically excommunicated.

The Catholic Church reaffirmed his declaration numerous times, the most recent being under Pope John Paul II in 1983.

Yet many Catholics are unaware of the Church’s ban against joining Freemasonry, or think the prohibition was handed down only for political reasons.

John Salza, a Catholic apologist and author, and former 32nd-degree Freemason, said the Church’s objections to Freemasonry are theologically based.

Mr. Salza, who runs the Web site scripturecatholic.com, recently wrote a book titled Why Catholics Cannot Be Masons, to explain the underlying reasons for the Church’s prohibition to Catholics.

His book was published by TAN Books and Publishers late last year and carries an imprimatur, an official license by the Catholic Church to print a religious book, which was issued by Bishop Thomas Doran of Rockford, Ill. Mr. Salza said his book is the only one on Freemasonry he knows of with such a credential.

“When I graduated from law school, I was solicited to join Freemasonry by some Catholic men I knew,” said Mr. Salza. “Masonry claims you’re never to solicit, to be one you have to ask one. But I was solicited very aggressively. They presented Freemasonry to me as a way to expand my business networking, as a social thing.”

Mr. Salza said he wrote his book because many Catholics are confused about Freemasonry. Many priests, in addition to laity, are unaware their parishioners who are members of Masonic organizations cannot receive communion.

“I wasn’t clear on [the Church’s teachings on Freemasonry], and I called my parish priest,” said Mr. Salza. “He said he hadn’t studied the matter and didn’t understand the Church’s teaching on it.”

Mr. Salza became very involved in Freemasonry, rising through the ranks of its Scottish Rite, where he achieved its highest rank, the 32nd degree.

He joined the Shriners, an organization composed of Freemasons and was awarded the “Proficiency Card” by the Grand Lodge of Wisconsin. The card is a rare credential that designated Mr. Salza as an expert in Masonic ritual and authorized him to teach the rituals to Masons and Masonic lodges. Mr. Salza says he received this credential faster than anyone in Wisconsin’s history.

Through his familiarity with Masonic ritual, Mr. Salza said he became uncomfortable with what Freemasonry taught about God.

“Everything is superficial until you get in the lodge and learn what the ritual is teaching,” said Mr. Salza. “Freemasonry teaches that man can be saved without belief in Jesus Christ. When I realized that, I became a walking contradiction. I had to solve that contradiction by leaving.”

Mr. Salza’s current efforts as a Christian apologist working with Scripture grew directly out of his exploration of what the Catholic Church teaches on Freemasonry.

“When I began studying the Catholic positions on Freemasonry, I studied not only the Catholic, but the Protestant arguments against it also,” he said. “As I studied the Protestant positions against Freemasonry, I began uncovering the Protestant arguments against the Catholic faith. In my search for the truth about Freemasonry, I broadened my search for truth in general. I began accumulating Scripture quotes and quotes from the early fathers in support of the Catholic faith.”

Mr. Salza said there are a number of reasons why men are attracted to Freemasonry. Some join to satisfy curiosity about what Freemasonry is really about, and others join seeking to become leaders in the Lodge. For others, the draw is social, with the opportunity to develop business and social networks.

“Masons swear an oath of secrecy, that’s why there’s ignorance of their teachings,” said Mr. Salza. “Masonry is very successful in keeping its teachings secret. I felt a calling from God to share the knowledge that I have accumulated. Before me, there was never a Catholic who joined Freemasonry and left the lodge to start writing about it.”

Mr. Salza said it helps to explain to some Catholic Masons what the Church teaches, but admitted that not all of them will listen to that alone.

“Some men do know what the Church teaches, but rationalize it,” said Mr. Salza. “I haven’t tried to beat them up with theological arguments, but to appeal to their intellects. Freemasonry places all religions on the same level. If I can get him to admit that that’s an erroneous teaching, I can get somewhere with him… Christianity says that Jesus was divine, and Islam says that He was not. Masonry holds both those positions. Anybody with some modicum of intelligence will recognize that that’s a contradiction.”

Mr. Salza also said that it’s not cliché to say that prayer and lots of prayer is needed in that situation as well.

“We have to work on the rational level,” he said, “but also the supernatural level, begging God to help men break their bonds to Freemasonry.”

John P. Connolly can be reached at jconnolly@thebulletin.us

And I agree with EVERY word that he says because he was a Moderns Freemason (post 1738) and knows nothing else.

We are NOT Moderns freemasons, we are religious pre-Moderns. The Papla authorities have not uttered one word that refers to us. Not one.

 

[PeterClatworthy]

No, not the Catholic Church, just you.

More dishonesty and a transparent ploy to silence me, rather than deal with the issue.

I am only here in order to try to educate you, so that you can make valued judgements, but I cannot force you.

If you wish to remain in ignorance and to impose that ignorance on your colleagues on this “discussion” forum, then there is little I can do. I do not hold the key. I am a guest here.

I did not compare you to “the Nazis”, I drew a fair comparison between your sneaky modus operandii and that used by Goebbels. Misinformation; disinformation; diversion; omission of facts; contrary construction; misleading the readers.

Now if you do not like being accused of these things, then stop it and deal with the issue.

Everyone here knows what you are up to, and if I am switched off, so be it. But you know, that I know EXACTLY what you are up to, and that satisfies me.

Why are you so frightened?

 

[John_oxios]

And I agree with EVERY word that he says because he was a Moderns Freemason (post 1738) and knows nothing else.

We are NOT Moderns freemasons, we are religious pre-Moderns. The Papla authorities have not uttered one word that refers to us. Not one.

Any way you look at it, if you do not accept the authority of the Pope in Rome, and the teachings of the RCC, than you are a Protestant organization. Protestant organizations are built on anti-Catholicism, why ought men of Catholicism subject themselves to ridicule of Our Church, and become ‘premoderns’ to learn the secrets of pre Solomon time? Anyway you look at it, you have the thirteenth degree guy whom all wisdom flows down from…and you spend your time trying to be enlightened so you can ‘move -up’ the totem pole. Big question outside of social, political opportunities, is why? You’ll never become a Catholic organization, you’ll always be protestant. Your general idea is to bring Catholics to join your Protestant institution to ‘save them.’

God bless,
John

God Bless,

 

[John_oxios]

You have had an EXACT answer. We cannot demand a letter from your Bishop of Rome. You can. Go ahead. The status quo remains until and unless he does, with his reasons.

It is so obvious that you are just being difficult.
.

Okay PeterC,
If i go to the Local Bihops office, matter of Fact, the ArchBishops of NY @ St Pat’s In Manhattan, Press spoke person, attends my Bible study regularly, If i can get a letter from the Arch Bishops office denying my application to your Lodge, and the why, will you get off our backs!!!

 

[EnchantedEve]

This whole thread reinforces my decision. I am a Free Mason until midnight tonight 12/31/09. I have resigned as I am in the process of ‘coming home’ to the Catholic Church. I have been a FM for 40 some years. I have seen my error and will confess prior to my confirmation.

Yeah! :clapping::extrahappy:

 

[PeterClatworthy]

Any way you look at it, if you do not accept the authority of the Pope in Rome, and the teachings of the RCC, than you are a Protestant organization. Protestant organizations are built on anti-Catholicism, why ought men of Catholicism subject themselves to ridicule of Our Church, and become ‘premoderns’ to learn the secrets of pre Solomon time? Anyway you look at it, you have the thirteenth degree guy whom all wisdom flows down from…and you spend your time trying to be enlightened so you can ‘move -up’ the totem pole. Big question outside of social, political opportunities, is why? You’ll never become a Catholic organization, you’ll always be protestant. Your general idea is to bring Catholics to join your Protestant institution to ‘save them.’

God bless,
John

God Bless,

John,

No. We are Johannine Christians who pre-date the Pauline succession of the Petrine Catholic Church. Now please do not take offence, because that is our sincerely held belief.

We respect your beliefs although we do not agree with them, and we can only ask that you respect ours. We are NOT anti-Catholic, and we are certainly NOT Protestants. That is the province of King Henry VIII.

I wish to make it crystal clear. We are NOT anti-Catholic, and NEVER have been. We have a large number of devout Catholic Fellows. More than you could possibly imagine.

We also have the utmost respect for your Roman Christian Faith, and the work that you do in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

May God Bless you.

 

[PeterClatworthy]

Okay PeterC,
If i go to the Local Bihops office, matter of Fact, the ArchBishops of NY @ St Pat’s In Manhattan, Press spoke person, attends my Bible study regularly, If i can get a letter from the Arch Bishops office denying my application to your Lodge, and the why, will you get off our backs!!!

Not acceptable. Not by a long way. With the greatest of respect, he would not know where to begin, would not understand the issues, and would not have the authority to make a decision. Witness the reaction that I have received form the members of this forum.

The absolute minimum requirement as far as we are concerned, is a formal statement from His Holiness explaining in detail why the religious Free Masonrie of our Grand Lodge, and our Grand Lodge alone is either acceptabe or unnacceptable.

It is not too much to ask. Until that happens neither of us can move this debate forward.

 

[NeelyAnn]

John,

No. We are Johannine Christians who pre-date the Pauline succession of the Petrine Catholic Church. Now please do not take offence, because that is our sincerely held belief.

We respect your beliefs although we do not agree with them, and we can only ask that you respect ours. We are NOT anti-Catholic, and we are certainly NOT Protestants. That is the province of King Henry VIII.

I wish to make it crystal clear. We are NOT anti-Catholic, and NEVER have been. We have a large number of devout Catholic Fellows. More than you could possibly imagine.

We also have the utmost respect for your Roman Christian Faith, and the work that you do in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

May God Bless you.

Then doesn’t this make you a ‘religion’? A Catholic cannot belong to 2 religions, even if the other religion is not anti-Catholic.

 

[workingman]

Contd …

It cannot be clearer. It just needs you to suggest why you believe that the Holy See remained totally silent until 1738, the year of the publication of Dr Anderson’s “New Book of Constitutions” of the Moderns.

It would not have been possible for Catholic Popes NOT to know EXACTLY what was going on, for two reasons.

They were at the very centre of the politics of Europe.

Free Masons built your Abbeys, your Cathedrals and your Churches using Sacred Geometry under the direction of Masonic Priests and Monks. (See: Sacred Geometry: Symbolism and Purpose in Religious Structures by Nigel Pennick.) You could not have done so without us. Not very grateful are you?

Hmmmmmm Maybe because “modern freemasonry” did not exist or was not well known at this point or it took some time to investigate what was forming and going on. There now you have your explanation.

Second trying to tie freemasonry to the knights templar is a stretch not much historical proof for that.

What is your source I would like to visit it personally. If there was a link I missed it.

Third Masons not free masons built our Abbeys, Churches, Cathedrals, ect… They were operative not speculative. Huge difference. There is nothing “sacred” about geometry. Geometry is mathematics. Could also be classified as a science. So do not try and pass your group off as operative masonry when it is not. I am grateful to god and the establishment of His Church. It was formed into existence with out your group and thrived with out your group and grew without your group and will continue to grow with out your group being approved. The Holy See baned it for a reason and it still stands.