Catholic Church and medicinal marajuana?

  • Thread starter Thread starter lufty
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
And in the case of many other drugs…there are clear adverse affects and deleterious adverse affects. Marijuana is now even shown to slow the affects of alzheimers disease.

Again…I’m not supporting recreational use…but medical use.
 
I very much mean for this to be MM. What it means to me to always be used as a medical substance - but who says we can’t all use a little comfort and understanding in a “could be” cruel world. Just think - we all have to face the most horrible things that life has to offer - death, loss, physical pain and mental pain as well and not too many ways to cope with it. We could have all used a focused approach to dealing with “life” - we just had to be able to see through the fog to deal with it - address thing - accept things. MM can help deliver this through both the relief of REAL symptoms like pain, nausea, and so on from so many different conditions.

I literally put together over 18 pages of info today with facts, figures,statistics, and anecdotal evidence (to me the most important kind) from as far as 10,000 years ago.

Take any known disease, condition, mental disorder or phobia that does not produce symptoms that MM is known to help and then look at how MASSIVE the list is that it would help in the RIGHT context with the RIGHT help. Eventually as a society we might develop the ability to know when we have a headache, upset stomach, cramps, a newly fixed broken bone… and the SAME med could help with EVERYTHING. Over time, we would develop the ability through culture change, and PROPER education to administer this MM just like the way more toxic brevvy of meds pushed to us expensively OTC and Rx that we all use to self medicate with anyway.It could become more valuable to our modem world. It would be as prized and respected as all the the known cultures of times various plants of different properties.
 
I very much mean for this to be MM. What it means to me to always be used as a medical substance - but who says we can’t all use a little comfort and understanding in a “could be” cruel world. Just think - we all have to face the most horrible things that life has to offer - death, loss, physical pain and mental pain as well and not too many ways to cope with it. We could have all used a focused approach to dealing with “life” - we just had to be able to see through the fog to deal with it - address thing - accept things. MM can help deliver this through both the relief of REAL symptoms like pain, nausea, and so on from so many different conditions.

I literally put together over 18 pages of info today with facts, figures,statistics, and anecdotal evidence (to me the most important kind) from as far as 10,000 years ago.

Take any known disease, condition, mental disorder or phobia that does not produce symptoms that MM is known to help and then look at how MASSIVE the list is that it would help in the RIGHT context with the RIGHT help. Eventually as a society we might develop the ability to know when we have a headache, upset stomach, cramps, a newly fixed broken bone… and the SAME med could help with EVERYTHING. Over time, we would develop the ability through culture change, and PROPER education to administer this MM just like the way more toxic brevvy of meds pushed to us expensively OTC and Rx that we all use to self medicate with anyway.It could become more valuable to our modem world. It would be as prized and respected as all the the known cultures of times various plants of different properties.
I understand what you’re saying in your posts. I have clinical depression and anxiety disorder that may or may not be linked to my diabetes, and I have to spend a ton of money on psych doctor visits and anti-depressants and I HATE being on them. In the past, when I’ve used marijuana, I haven’t needed the anti-depressants to make me sleep, make me get up, etc. This is no small matter. My Pristiq alone (if I actually follow the doctor’s advice and take as much as I’m supposed to) costs me $10 per DAY (to say nothing of all the other meds, insulin, supplies, etc.). And when I try to reduce the dosage or simply try to stop taking the anti-depressants, the withdrawals are TERRIBLE. It can’t be any worse to try to get off heroin than it is to get off something like Pristiq and Effexor and Remeron. Yet these totally addictive drugs are perfectly legal with a prescription, so some on this board would claim that they are necessarily more “moral” than marijuana. That’s horse hockey, if you want my 2 cents. We don’t live in a divine right monarchy or a theocracy. Fallible humans vote on laws, including non-Christians and atheists. Are you telling me that marijuana is moral where it is legal, but here it is not moral? Give me a break. It’s illegal because someone has decided arbitrarily to make a law about what drugs can be used, and they drew the line at marijuana.

It IS unjust that something like marijuana is illegal in this country. I know first-hand that it can help people see thru the fog and not take so many horrible synthetic drugs. I am probably as hardcore Catholic as you can get, but I consider smoking marijuana to be therapeutic and helpful, and if it were legal, I would do it more. It is just as open to abuse as any other drug or practice, but it is not inherently sinful; it can be an agent for good. I don’t do it a lot, primarily because it is illegal, so I have to pay hundreds and hundreds of dollars per month to stay on these horrible prescription anti-depressants in order that I don’t go to jail or end up losing my law license. But I will never, ever condemn someone for using it, simply because all “evil” things are merely good things used excessively or to bad purposes. To me, as far as the “legality” is concerned, if any jurisdiction ever outlaws the Catholic mass, I will still go to it. I feel no differently about marijuana.
 
P.S. - Nearly ALL alcohol use is recreational, unless you’re talking about taking nyquil or something similar to that. Is everyone on this board going to claim that because you’re not drinking a glass of wine to cure a disease, that it’s wrong? Even if it’s only to relax or be social, you’re doing it recreationally…
 
P.S. - Nearly ALL alcohol use is recreational, unless you’re talking about taking nyquil or something similar to that. Is everyone on this board going to claim that because you’re not drinking a glass of wine to cure a disease, that it’s wrong? Even if it’s only to relax or be social, you’re doing it recreationally…
👍

BTW…I drink alcohol to relax…avoid reality…and get bombed! Isn’t that medicinal? **I’m kidding about that entire line!!!

**
 
Wow I am really touched to read your stories about marijuana. I support you all and agree that the laws are unjust. To say it is a criminal offence to use something God created for us is wrong. If it can merit good cause, then it’s use is not imoral. A law forbids something that can output positive benefite is a violation of God’s law.
P.S. - Nearly ALL alcohol use is recreational, unless you’re talking about taking nyquil or something similar to that. Is everyone on this board going to claim that because you’re not drinking a glass of wine to cure a disease, that it’s wrong? Even if it’s only to relax or be social, you’re doing it recreationally…
Pax my friend, but I can bet money that the person who responds to this will cite 2290 of the CCC and/or then argue that they can control how much they drink, but you can’t control how affected you become off of marijuana. Happens pretty much every much marijuana thread you come across.
 
Wow I am really touched to read your stories about marijuana. I support you all and agree that the laws are unjust. To say it is a criminal offence to use something God created for us is wrong. If it can merit good cause, then it’s use is not imoral. A law forbids something that can output positive benefite is a violation of God’s law.

Pax my friend, but I can bet money that the person who responds to this will argue that they can control how much they drink, but you can’t control how affected you become off of marijuana. That of course is most certainly untrue.
That is a good comment. And you’ve qualified it well with the last statement. I think someone that would take the position that you can control how they feel from alcohol should probably reply after the Super Bowl on Sunday! 😃
 
Pax my friend, but I can bet money that the person who responds to this will cite 2290 of the CCC and/or then argue that they can control how much they drink, but you can’t control how affected you become off of marijuana. Happens pretty much every much marijuana thread you come across.
They are free to make that citation and argument, except that their argument is based upon a false premise. I most certainly can control the effect of marijuana, and it is virtually identical to the way I can control the effects of alcohol. Even if you only drink one glass of wine, that is still recreational, not medicinal. So I propose that the correct reading of 2290 must be taken along with the correct reading of 2291.

2291(a) The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life.

Well, we need to consider what this first sentence of 2291 means. If you take it to mean that the use of ALL (each and every kind of) drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life, then the sentence is utterly false. We know that not all drugs inflict grave damage on human life. If that were the case, no drugs would be legal, because even coffee would kill you, as it contains a drug. Therefore, how are we to interpret the next sentence?

2291(b) Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense.

Well this must mean that the use of those drugs which do inflict very grave damage on human health and life may only be used on strictly therapeutic grounds. For example, someone mentioned the use of cocaine to recover from certain types of surgery.

I can see no other way of reading it in conjunction with the prescription that certain other drugs, like alcohol and tobacco, only be used in moderation. Clearly there is a demarcation between those drugs which inflict “very grave damage” and those that do not. The Catechism clearly places alcohol and tobacco in the latter category (although some would no doubt challenge the use of cigarettes under any circumstances), but neglects to even mention something like caffeine (how should we categorize caffeine?). The Catechism does not categorize marijuana, or any other scheduled narcotic. Why? Well, I think it’s clear that the standard of causing “very grave damage” is a medical standard. It seems to me to be a matter of science whether marijuana should be classified as something that is okay in moderation or whether it causes “very grave damage.”

So then the fight becomes how marijuana should be classified. Should it be grouped with things like heroin and meth? Or should it be grouped with alcohol and tobacco? Well, I’ve never done heroin or meth. But I have done alcohol and tobacco, and I can tell you that marijuana is pretty similar to simultaneously using alcohol and tobacco. I have done cocaine once in my life, and I can tell you that anyone who thinks it should be grouped with cocaine instead of alcohol or tobacco is severely misinformed and inexperienced. It is closer to caffeine that cocaine.
 
This doesn’t justify the use of recreational drugs. His church has said we shouldn’t use recreational drugs. If you are talking about recreational drugs, this is like saying that since He created hemlock, using it to poison people is okay.

None of which are moral organizations. None of them have any moral authority. I understand how you could be passionate about medical marijuna, but recreational drug use is something entirely different.
He is not discussing recreational drugs. He is discussing MM - medical marijuana. He is using marijuana to control his pain.
 
In my 15+a day pill cocktails (do the math over 5 years, if you give me just one dime for each pill I took - ill give you my bank info.) I couldn’t experience things to even know how to live in the moment and remember it. Even if some of the medications I took were not directly tied to memory loss - the fog that prevented me from feeling or sensing anything real made me miss everything. Every moment of every day I existed, I was either in pain, remembering fonder times behind me or stressing about an incurable future. I couldn’t even generate genuine emotion, I felt like a psychopath because I had to fake emotion through the fog. I know what love feels like and I didn’t FEEL love for a very long time. My first days off of all medication other than MM where some of the most overwhelming and overwhelmingly positive individual moments in my life. I have never reeled from so much happiness and joy to be back among the functioning. Likewise I was able to face my fears and greatest failures against God and man alike and accepted that my past does NOT dictate my future - it only tells me where I came from and where I refuse to return. I can’t forget about where and what I have come from. I embrace THAT pain because to know happiness is also to know pain. Life is not about maximizing happiness or joy overload - its about accepting everything around you each moment and DOING something about what you see, touch, taste, hear and smell. I had had zero sensory (name removed by moderator)ut - except the pain that was never mitigated with traditional meds. Does anyone know what stress does to the body on a cellular level? It destroys the cells. Turns out that time when you almost got hit by that car - it really did take years off your life - or at least a whole lot of moments. There are a ton of great videos on You Tube from “Google Tech Talks” (my views do not represent theirs and vice versa…to an extent). They aim to bring in some of the leading minds everywhere through the fringes of popular accepted science to arts and everything in-between. It seems they are not afraid to invite people that have difficult things to say. There is a video there from Jon Kabat-Zinn, among other great videos, called Mindfulness, Stress Reduction and Healing - he is one of the leading researchers into medically based meditation. He cites a study in the video where they measure the breakdown of cells/the levels of breakdown or telomere degradation. . It took two populations - families with terminally ill children and “normal” families, on paper at least. Guess what? It does not matter what “real” stress you are in - both groups were shown to have almost identical plots. If your perceived reality is overly stressful - it IS as far as the machine that is your body is concerned - stress is like friction to a machine - eventually it will break it down. We all need maintenance. Change your perspective on stress and how it hits you - and you can start to control it and the pain arc and your mind/body. Lets say the problems in a relationship are “communication” or “he doesn’t say what’s on his mind or he doesn’t/she doesn’t express their feelings“. Could it be they don’t know how - they were never shown by their parents? If a three year old wants to just play with his dad and dad can’t because dad is on the bathroom floor in a sea of pain and vomit - that 3 year old starts to think daddy doesn’t love him - daddy says over and over that he loves his son so he doesn’t forget - but he can’t show his love by being there. Now my son KNOWS I love him because I can run around, wrestle, read and enjoy this time together.

My mind used to be a toxic wasteland of doubt and longing to repent and fear that I was damned - now I have an odd clarity that enables me to focus and accomplish more in days that used to take months. Every role I have in life is vastly improved from productive member of society, active with the church, as a father, husband etc…the only roles I don’t fill right now are of patient and “the prescribed” - I am OK with that - Could you be too, for my sake, my souls’ sake and for that of what I love and care about? Its ok if you can’t because I can - and we should all have the right. So - if God is Love and I must know love to love God - I can finally be in his grace.

Call to Catholics - tell your positive story. Tell your negative story. We all need to know.
(I had to delete part of your post because it was long).

Wow. I am impressed!! And I’m very happy that you found something that worked for you. I think that sometimes people don’t understand how bad constant, chronic pain can be and I understand that - how could they know if they have never experienced it? My neighbor (who is in her fifties) looked up at me one day and said “Wow, I have a headache. I never had one before. So this is what it feels like!” I have family and friends who love me and try to understand but they can’t know how tiring and depressing and just bad to be in horrible pain almost every minute of every day.

I have TMJ disorder and had two failed surgeries. When I was driving home on the freeway one day after PT a big rig started to pull into my lane and I didn’t even put on the brakes. I just thought “OK, fine. If he hits me, it’s over.” I didn’t care anymore. In a way I wanted him to hit me. I don’t remember what happened because it seemed to me that he was at least going to sideswipe me. The next thing I knew I was just driving. The truck was gone.

I am trying my best to get off all opiates and I can’t take anything with tylenol in it. I don’t know what to do. Right now my legs and back hurt so much and I’m very nauseous, so I’ll make this short. I’m just so happy that you are able to have control of your life and fulfill the roles you want to fulfill.

Thank you for sharing your story. I loved reading it!!
 
He is not discussing recreational drugs. He is discussing MM - medical marijuana. He is using marijuana to control his pain.
My apologies. I just didn’t want anyone thinking recreational drugs are okay.
 
They are free to make that citation and argument, except that their argument is based upon a false premise. I most certainly can control the effect of marijuana, and it is virtually identical to the way I can control the effects of alcohol. Even if you only drink one glass of wine, that is still recreational, not medicinal. So I propose that the correct reading of 2290 must be taken along with the correct reading of 2291.

2291(a) The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life.

Well, we need to consider what this first sentence of 2291 means. If you take it to mean that the use of ALL (each and every kind of) drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life, then the sentence is utterly false. We know that not all drugs inflict grave damage on human life. If that were the case, no drugs would be legal, because even coffee would kill you, as it contains a drug. Therefore, how are we to interpret the next sentence?

2291(b) Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense.

Well this must mean that the use of those drugs which do inflict very grave damage on human health and life may only be used on strictly therapeutic grounds. For example, someone mentioned the use of cocaine to recover from certain types of surgery.

I can see no other way of reading it in conjunction with the prescription that certain other drugs, like alcohol and tobacco, only be used in moderation. Clearly there is a demarcation between those drugs which inflict “very grave damage” and those that do not. The Catechism clearly places alcohol and tobacco in the latter category (although some would no doubt challenge the use of cigarettes under any circumstances), but neglects to even mention something like caffeine (how should we categorize caffeine?). The Catechism does not categorize marijuana, or any other scheduled narcotic. Why? Well, I think it’s clear that the standard of causing “very grave damage” is a medical standard. It seems to me to be a matter of science whether marijuana should be classified as something that is okay in moderation or whether it causes “very grave damage.”

So then the fight becomes how marijuana should be classified. Should it be grouped with things like heroin and meth? Or should it be grouped with alcohol and tobacco? Well, I’ve never done heroin or meth. But I have done alcohol and tobacco, and I can tell you that marijuana is pretty similar to simultaneously using alcohol and tobacco. I have done cocaine once in my life, and I can tell you that anyone who thinks it should be grouped with cocaine instead of alcohol or tobacco is severely misinformed and inexperienced. It is closer to caffeine that cocaine.
Ahh very good responce my friend. If you ever get a chance read post 51 and 52. We have pretty similiar understanding. There is so much misinformation out there that needs correction. I think a lot of it comes from the reaction people had to the drug craze back in the 60’s and 70’s.
 
Yes - for sure there are two unique events in the “war on drugs”. The war on Hemp and the war on hippies.
 
My apologies. I just didn’t want anyone thinking recreational drugs are okay.
I think we all need to be aware of that fact - recreational drug use is not OK. Back in my college days there was a year or so where I would smoke marijuana all weekend, every weekend. I enjoyed it. I even drove once when I was so out of it that it took me forever to find the freeway on ramp.

Wow, was I stupid!! I am so lucky I never caused an accident because if I had I would have held myself responsible (and I still would). Looking back I am amazed at how stupid and sinful I was. I didn’t respect my own body and life and I didn’t respect other’s bodies and lives. I blew it all off. I didn’t care and I liked the way marijuana (and hashish once) made me feel.

Fortunately for me (and everyone else) I grew up and stopped that sort of thing. Now I can’t imagine using marijuana (or any drug) for recreation.
 
Jermosh,

You are confused. My response you quoted was addressed to the suggestion that ***marijuana use ***was no more illicit than the use of Oxycontin. I did NOT suggest the use of prescribed Oxycontin was illicit. Please be more careful.

Thank you.

Dan Grelinger
More carefull about what? Are you stating that their is a medical differance between prescribing Oxycontin and marijuana, actually the big differance is Oxycontin can kill or cause serios injury. Know how much marijuana it takes to kill a mouse? 25lbs and a 6ft drop.
 
With the only relevant item attributed being the fall - or was it ground that killed the mouse - was not the MM. My guess is the mouse was better prepared to die at least…
 
With the only relevant item attributed being the fall - or was it ground that killed the mouse - was not the MM. My guess is the mouse was better prepared to die at least…
But that does not have the twang I was looking for. But to be honest, if people are using the excuse that MM is bad for you, why not outlaw alcohol? That’s killed, maimed, and destroyed far more lives then even pot has.
 
Ha - sorry to encroach.

Just remember all - think about your opinions and where they come from. I would not dream of telling someone they are wrong when it comes to an opinion because if I don’t know where they got their information from how can I know if THEY are wrong? Usually it’s just a simple misunderstanding of getting information from a proven source of unreliable “facts” mixed in with the truly true. I am not trying to be cynical - just honest about my surroundings. Look at the TRUE root of the data - if it ultimately comes from the govt or others that get the power to deem things legal and illegal - then, on THIS topic, is 100% proven to be a smear campaign against the very well known benefits of MM (only ever talking about MM)

Don’t think your very own reality and thus your opinions can be controlled like a puppet on strings? Read Plato’s Allegory of the Cave.
 
True, but MM has been around a longtime, and was taxed in the US based on severe racist intents.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top