Catholic Climate Movement

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According to the climate change alarmists at NASA, sea levels are rising at 3.4mm per year. At that rate a foot increase will take nearly 100 years, not 13.

climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/sea-level/
“Palm Beach County has participated since 2010 in joint planning with neighboring Broward, Miami-Dade, and Monroe counties under the Southeast Florida Regional Climate Change Compact. According to a report produced by the group, sea levels in the region could increase from the 2010 mean level as much as seven inches by 2030 and two feet by 2060.”

I am sure since it is their properties they would want to be diligent with their report.
 
According to the climate change alarmists at NASA, sea levels are rising at 3.4mm per year. At that rate a foot increase will take nearly 100 years, not 13.

climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/sea-level/
Something that has long intrigued me is this.

Sea levels are a relative thing. They’re affected by ice accumulation on land. They’re affected by subsidence of land. They’re affected by the never-ending erosion of land and its flow into the sea. They’re affected by upwellings and subsidences in the sea floor. They’re even affected by the amount of water in the atmosphere and on the land at any given point in time.

I recall reading, just as a perhaps interesting aside, that the whole of the Great Plains was created by wind and water erosion of a mountain chain, now gone, that was bigger than the Rockies, which is why, in driving from, say, St. Louis to Denver, it’s uphill all the way.

The part of the country in which I live was quite obviously on the bottom of a sea and perhaps a number of times. Sometimes it was shallow, the precipitates of which tended to form the chert layers. Sometimes it was deep, the precipitates of which tended to form the limestone layers. Here and there one may find a sandstone layer suggesting perhaps desert land. And then there are the more recent layers of clay rich with iron that came from…what? In some places there are the minerals infiltrated by hot water of unbelievably ancient volcanic origin into even more ancient limestone; lead, zinc, silver, quartz.

Maybe sea levels are really rising in Florida and perhaps removal of underground water is simply causing subsidence. Maybe they’re rising because of ice melt from glaciers sitting on land. Maybe they’re rising because land is rising when it’s relieved of ice pressure or gasification of magma; rising we can’t see because it’s offshore.

I really don’t think we know all the things that cause changes in the earth or in the oceans upon the earth.
 
“Palm Beach County has participated since 2010 in joint planning with neighboring Broward, Miami-Dade, and Monroe counties under the Southeast Florida Regional Climate Change Compact. According to a report produced by the group, sea levels in the region could increase from the 2010 mean level as much as seven inches by 2030 and two feet by 2060.”

I am sure since it is their properties they would want to be diligent with their report.
Except that a lot of climate alarmists have beachfront property…
 
“We must therefore encourage and support the ‘ecological conversion’ which has made humanity more sensitive to the catastrophe to which it has been heading” (St John Paul II).

“Humanity is called to recognize the need for changes of lifestyle, production and consumption, in order to combat this warming” and “highly polluting fossil fuels need to be progressively replaced without delay.” (Pope Francis, LS 23, 165).

“The Church has a responsibility towards creation and she must assert this responsibility in the public sphere… She must above all protect mankind from self-destruction.” (Pope Benedict XVI, Caritas in Veritate 51)
 
“Palm Beach County has participated since 2010 in joint planning with neighboring Broward, Miami-Dade, and Monroe counties under the Southeast Florida Regional Climate Change Compact. According to a report produced by the group, sea levels in the region could increase from the 2010 mean level as much as seven inches by 2030 and two feet by 2060.”

I am sure since it is their properties they would want to be diligent with their report.
The earliest panic projections of sea level rise go back to around -]1970/-] 1969. We were supposed to be UNDERWATER … ALREADY … decades ago.

motls.blogspot.com/2010/07/nixon-was-told-sea-level-would-rise-by.html

Didn’t happen.

Not even close.

There are people standing there with their measuring sticks … ready to pounce.

But none of the catastrophic projections came true.
 
Maybe sea levels are really rising in Florida and perhaps removal of underground water is simply causing subsidence. Maybe they’re rising because of ice melt from glaciers sitting on land. Maybe they’re rising because land is rising when it’s relieved of ice pressure or gasification of magma; rising we can’t see because it’s offshore.
Sea levels are rising. They have been rising since the last ice age. The significant point is that the rise appears to be stable; it has not been accelerating, so the kerfuffle over the inundation of coastal areas is simply evidence that Chicken Little has struck again.

Ender
 
“Humanity is called to recognize the need for changes of lifestyle, production and consumption, in order to combat this warming” and “highly polluting fossil fuels need to be progressively replaced without delay.” (Pope Francis, LS 23, 165).
If warming is being caused by man, if the warming is actually harmful, if CO2 should be considered a pollutant, and if replacing hydrocarbon fuels with alternatives doesn’t cause more problems than it solves, then we should in fact replace them.

All of those questions, however, are scientific, and the fact that a pope has taken a position on them contributes nothing in the way of answering them. We are no more obliged to accept his opinion on these scientific issues than earlier Catholics were obliged to accede to Pope Urban’s opinion on the scientific issues raised by Galileo. If anything, one would have expected that case to have been sufficient to prevent such an incident from being repeated.

Ender
 
If warming is being caused by man, if the warming is actually harmful, if CO2 should be considered a pollutant, and if replacing hydrocarbon fuels with alternatives doesn’t cause more problems than it solves, then we should in fact replace them.

All of those questions, however, are scientific, and the fact that a pope has taken a position on them contributes nothing in the way of answering them. We are no more obliged to accept his opinion on these scientific issues than earlier Catholics were obliged to accede to Pope Urban’s opinion on the scientific issues raised by Galileo. If anything, one would have expected that case to have been sufficient to prevent such an incident from being repeated.

Ender
👍
 
If warming is being caused by man, if the warming is actually harmful, if CO2 should be considered a pollutant, and if replacing hydrocarbon fuels with alternatives doesn’t cause more problems than it solves, then we should in fact replace them.

All of those questions, however, are scientific, …

Ender
And pretty much the consensus of all but a few. Most likely the same sort of few who denied the health dangers of tobacco decades ago. Best to err on the side of caution.
 
And pretty much the consensus of all but a few. Most likely the same sort of few who denied the health dangers of tobacco decades ago. Best to err on the side of caution.
If there really was this mythical consensus, then there wouldn’t be a debate about what is happening and what to do about it. In reality, the “consensus” is just an artificial construct created to stifle debate. There’s a lot of disagreement about what is happening, what is causing it, and what to do about it. You’re side really needs to figure out that “the mob has spoken” isn’t a very compelling argument.
 
If there really was this mythical consensus, then there wouldn’t be a debate about what is happening and what to do about it. In reality, the “consensus” is just an artificial construct created to stifle debate. There’s a lot of disagreement about what is happening, what is causing it, and what to do about it. You’re side really needs to figure out that “the mob has spoken” isn’t a very compelling argument.
Policy-makers and the public who are not members of the relevant research community have had to form opinions about the reality of global climate change on the basis of often conflicting descriptions provided by the media regarding the level of scientific certainty attached to studies of climate. In this Essay, Oreskes analyzes the existing scientific literature to show that there is a robust consensus that anthropogenic global climate change is occurring. Thus, despite claims sometimes made by some groups that there is not good evidence that Earth’s climate is being affected by human activities, the scientific community is in overwhelming agreement that such evidence is clear and persuasive.
science.sciencemag.org/content/306/5702/1686

books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=3YMUAwAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PA105&dq=consensus+on+climate+change&ots=MwIE9TZ6EI&sig=2c6xk4OXJfyItChlMYe_xUoerpM#v=onepage&q=consensus%20on%20climate%20change&f=false

pnas.org/content/107/27/12107.full

Effectively addressing climate change requires significant changes in individual and collective human behavior and decision-making. Yet, in light of the increasing politicization of (climate) science, and the attempts of vested-interest groups to undermine the scientific consensus on climate change through organized “disinformation campaigns,” identifying ways to effectively engage with the public about the issue across the political spectrum has proven difficult.

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/gch2.201600008/full

Climate Myth…
There is no consensus
The Petition Project features over 31,000 scientists signing the petition stating “There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide will, in the forseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth’s atmosphere …”. (Petition Project)

skepticalscience.com/global-warming-scientific-consensus-intermediate.htm
 
Policy-makers and the public who are not members of the relevant research community have had to form opinions about the reality of global climate change on the basis of often conflicting descriptions provided by the media regarding the level of scientific certainty attached to studies of climate.
It is foolish for anyone, let alone policy makers, to form an opinion on this subject based on what the media says about it.
In this Essay, Oreskes analyzes the existing scientific literature to show that there is a robust consensus that anthropogenic global climate change is occurring. Thus, despite claims sometimes made by some groups that there is not good evidence that Earth’s climate is being affected by human activities, the scientific community is in overwhelming agreement that such evidence is clear and persuasive.
There are numerous studies claiming to find a “consensus”, and there are just as many refutations of those studies. The Oreskes study is no exception.
Effectively addressing climate change requires significant changes in individual and collective human behavior and decision-making. Yet, in light of the increasing politicization of (climate) science, and the attempts of vested-interest groups to undermine the scientific consensus on climate change through organized “disinformation campaigns,” identifying ways to effectively engage with the public about the issue across the political spectrum has proven difficult.
It has proven especially difficult in light of the fact that the climate simply refuses to cooperate with the predictions.

Claims of consensus are made to sway the uninformed; science is simply not conducted on that basis. Given the extent of the unknowns, and the problems with recalcitrant data, it is no wonder that AGW supporters take the non-scientific, political approach to affect the debate. Crying out “everybody believes what we believe” is nothing more than saying “Don’t look behind that curtain. Nothing to see there. Move along.”

Ender
 
There are numerous studies claiming to find a “consensus”, and there are just as many refutations of those studies.
So now we have studies about studies. Does anyone see the possibility of an infinite recursion here? (In determining whether or not there is a consensus about whether there is a consensus on global warming, I propose doing a study of the number of studies of the number of studies of global warming, thus adding a 3rd level to the recursion. Or is is a 4th? No matter. Someone will propose a 5th level soon.)
 
So now we have studies about studies. Does anyone see the possibility of an infinite recursion here? (In determining whether or not there is a consensus about whether there is a consensus on global warming, I propose doing a study of the number of studies of the number of studies of global warming, thus adding a 3rd level to the recursion. Or is is a 4th? No matter. Someone will propose a 5th level soon.)
Or we could simply go with the science.

Truth does not care if there is a consensus. It simply is.
 
Or we could simply go with the science.

Truth does not care if there is a consensus. It simply is.
No, you cannot simply go with the science - unless you are a qualified climate scientist yourself doing your own original research. Otherwise you** are** relying on what other scientists tell you. For example, how do you know there was an 18-year pause in global temperatures? Did you measure it yourself? Personally? Or are you relying on a consensus of measurements that others have made?
 
So now we have studies about studies. Does anyone see the possibility of an infinite recursion here? (In determining whether or not there is a consensus about whether there is a consensus on global warming, I propose doing a study of the number of studies of the number of studies of global warming, thus adding a 3rd level to the recursion. Or is is a 4th? No matter. Someone will propose a 5th level soon.)
Is this a surprise to you? One scientist does a study and makes assertion A. Another scientist replicates his work and claims that A is not a justifiable conclusion. If you read the study, and the critique of that study, you can make up your own mind as to who has the stronger argument. The real point here, however, is that there is no justification whatever for asserting that A is a fact, and we should all just accept it as true without question. It is an assertion. If you would like to defend it, give it a shot, but let’s not pretend the question has been finally answered, or that those who reject the claim therefore reject science.

Ender
 
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