Catholic.com presidential poll

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Saint Michael, the archangel, defend us in battle, be our defense against the wickedness and snares of the devil, may God rebuke him, we humbly pray. And do you, O’ Prince of the Heavenly host, by the power of God thrust into Hell Satan and all the other evil spirits who prowl about the world for the ruin of souls. Amen
 
Giggly_Giraffe said:
Saint Michael, the archangel, defend us in battle, be our defense against the wickedness and snares of the devil, may God rebuke him, we humbly pray. And do you, O’ Prince of the Heavenly host, by the power of God thrust into Hell Satan and all the other evil spirits who prowl about the world for the ruin of souls. Amen
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:gopray:
 
I personally loathe it when religion and politics “mix,” but I don’t ever see that going away anytime in the near future. Still, I have been very fortunate in my own religious life in that I have never attended churches that were “political” (ie. interested in telling me how to vote).

That said, I found this article very interesting: slate.com/articles/life/cover_story/2016/05/how_liberal_christians_can_turn_the_democrats_into_the_party_of_god.html.

Like many Christians, my religious beliefs inform my voting habits and they always have and Clinton’s Christianity is one of the things that has always drawn me to her as a public person and a politician.
 
Little_Sheep said:
I personally loathe it when religion and politics “mix,” but I don’t ever see that going away anytime in the near future. Still, I have been very fortunate in my own religious life in that I have never attended churches that were “political” (ie. interested in telling me how to vote).

That said, I found this article very interesting: slate.com/articles/life/cover_story/2016/05/how_liberal_christians_can_turn_the_democrats_into_the_party_of_god.html.

Like many Christians, my religious beliefs inform my voting habits and they always have and Clinton’s Christianity is one of the things that has always drawn me to her as a public person and a politician.
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Yes,it’s a very interesting article. Thanks for posting it.
 
AllieT said:
Trump. A third party vote for someone who doesn’t have a chance or non-vote is a vote for Hillary Clinton.
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I’m hearing that a lot, but I wonder if in the American system, that’s true.

My state is overwhelmingly Republican, and Trump will win here as even though a large number of people who are turned off by him will vote for him. Clinton will not take this state’s electoral votes.

In that situation (which I admit only applies to a few states), would a person have the moral option of voting for neither or for a third party candidate, assuming that a third party candidate more closely fit their views. Indeed, in this circumstance, which is quite rare, perhaps that’d be the better option, as it might serve to send a bit of a message.

What I can’t quite grasp is how Catholics, such as at least one “liberal” Catholic commentator I see in the Catholic press, can seem to be so solidly behind Hillary Clinton as that means they are backing, in effect, positions we would not be able to seemingly morally support. So this equation is easier, I think, in the GOP side than the Democratic side.
 
Little_Sheep said:
I personally loathe it when religion and politics “mix,” but I don’t ever see that going away anytime in the near future. Still, I have been very fortunate in my own religious life in that I have never attended churches that were “political” (ie. interested in telling me how to vote).
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How can it be that religion and politics do not mix? If we are sincere in our Faith, that must inform everything we do, and that would mix it by default. Additionally, as religion addresses the big questions, life, death, peace, war, it has to mix. For a religious person, its impossible not to consult the aspects of your faith on most serious issues. To separate religion from politics is to suggest, in effect, that religion is solely an internal matter that we need not act upon, which I know is now what you are advocating.
Little_Sheep said:
Like many Christians, my religious beliefs inform my voting habits and they always have and Clinton’s Christianity is one of the things that has always drawn me to her as a public person and a politician.
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I do not doubt that Clinton is a Christian (a Methodist, I believe) but I’m straining to think of an example how that’s obviously displayed itself in her public role. Can you cite to one?

I can certainly think of at least one Democrat in recent years, Jimmy Carter, who was obviously Christian. I’m sure that Clinton is a Christian, but when I think of her, I don’t think of her as displaying obvious Christianity. Perhaps, however, I’m in error. I’ll note that I don’t think of Trump that way either, and I’ve been fairly amazed by how the “Evangelical Vote” has seemingly gone his way.
 
Yeoman said:
How can it be that religion and politics do not mix? If we are sincere in our Faith, that must inform everything we do, and that would mix it by default. Additionally, as religion addresses the big questions, life, death, peace, war, it has to mix. For a religious person, its impossible not to consult the aspects of your faith on most serious issues. To separate religion from politics is to suggest, in effect, that religion is solely an internal matter that we need not act upon, which I know is now what you are advocating.

I do not doubt that Clinton is a Christian (a Methodist, I believe) but I’m straining to think of an example how that’s obviously displayed itself in her public role. Can you cite to one?

I can certainly think of at least one Democrat in recent years, Jimmy Carter, who was obviously Christian. I’m sure that Clinton is a Christian, but when I think of her, I don’t think of her as displaying obvious Christianity. Perhaps, however, I’m in error. I’ll note that I don’t think of Trump that way either, and I’ve been fairly amazed by how the “Evangelical Vote” has seemingly gone his way.
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I’m not saying one’s religion shouldn’t inform one’s political decisions - clearly, it does do that for almost every religious person I know. What I am saying is that I don’t want my Church entering the muck of politics or telling me what I should vote for or how I should vote. My church is about bigger, more important things than that. Good faith Christians can arrive at different positions and decisions when it comes to political questions. That much is clear.

As for Hillary - I have followed her in detail for years. She does not wear an easy, neat as a bow faith on her sleeve; instead, she’s down in the muck, willing to smell like the sheep. She is faith in action. Hillary Clinton is cut from the same cloth as Christian woman I have admired my whole life - she is faithful, persevering, slow to anger, patient, kind and courageous. She has spent her adult life working tirelessly for children - particularly children who live in poverty - and she takes seriously the call to look out for the least of these.

She also does talk (honestly and openly and beautifully) about her Christianity and her faith when asked, but I’ve always been more moved by actions than words when it comes to all of that stuff.

Out of pure laziness, I won’t type out all the efforts she has led to make the world a better place than she found it - it’s at the fingertips of anyone who wishes to explore it.

I loved Jimmy Carter as well. For me, both Carter and Clinton are role models, but Clinton, as a woman, speaks to me more personally. This political season has not been difficult for me because I’ve known from the beginning that she is the best choice to serve as our country’s next President. I understand that others are having a tougher time of it in 2016.
 
Little_Sheep said:
I personally loathe it when religion and politics “mix,” but I don’t ever see that going away anytime in the near future. Still, I have been very fortunate in my own religious life in that I have never attended churches that were “political” (ie. interested in telling me how to vote).

That said, I found this article very interesting: slate.com/articles/life/cover_story/2016/05/how_liberal_christians_can_turn_the_democrats_into_the_party_of_god.html.

Like many Christians, my religious beliefs inform my voting habits and they always have and Clinton’s Christianity is one of the things that has always drawn me to her as a public person and a politician.
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FWIW the Catholic bishops say in their Faithful Citizenship guide:
  1. In this statement, we bishops do not intend to tell Catholics for whom or against whom to vote. Our purpose is to help Catholics form their consciences in accordance with God’s truth. We recognize that the responsibility to make choices in political life rests with each individual in light of a properly formed conscience, and that participation goes well beyond casting a vote in a particular election.
What then occurs, well, I guess one only needs to read CAF for the ongoing debate.

Anyway, Little Sheep, I just wanted to join Good Tidings in thanking you for posting that interesting article.
 
Like many Christians, my religious beliefs inform my voting habits
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Like all of us and frankly its rather a stretch to assume democrats even represent christian or Catholic at all. What is the paradigm of like points for this comparison as I am very interested in the debate? 🙂
 
Sy_Noe said:
FWIW the Catholic bishops say in their Faithful Citizenship guide:
  1. In this statement, we bishops do not intend to tell Catholics for whom or against whom to vote. Our purpose is to help Catholics form their consciences in accordance with God’s truth. We recognize that the responsibility to make choices in political life rests with each individual in light of a properly formed conscience, and that participation goes well beyond casting a vote in a particular election.
What then occurs, well, I guess one only needs to read CAF for the ongoing debate.

Anyway, Little Sheep, I just wanted to join Good Tidings in thanking you for posting that interesting article.
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Of course the Church does not tell us who to vote for But they Do make it clear support of what issues disqualify a candidate from receiving a Catholics vote ,The teaching is quite clear for those who take the time to seek it out -or read this thread

I have found when discerning Catholc teaching it is best to turn to the Magestrium rather than articles on secular new sites-especially those that support abortion unwuvocsbly
 
GaryTaylor said:
Like all of us and frankly its rather a stretch to assume democrats even represent christian or Catholic at all. What is the paradigm of like points for this comparison as I am very interested in the debate? 🙂
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It is generally my experience when people are concerned about religion and politics getting mixed up is they are having a hard time reconciling their religion with their politics. This is especially true of Catholics trying to rationalize their votes for pro abortion candidates
 
estesbob said:
Of course the Church does not tell us who to vote for But they Do make it clear support of what issues disqualify a candidate from receiving a Catholics vote ,The teaching is quite clear for those who take the time to seek it out -or read this thread

I have found when discerning Catholc teaching it is best to turn to the Magestrium rather than articles on secular new sites-especially those that support abortion unwuvocsbly
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If they’re telling Catholics a single issue disqualifies a candidate, in this case Hillary Clinton, and the only other person with any chance at all of becoming the next President of the United States is Donald Trump and he apparently is not disqualified from the looks of this CAF poll, that is all I need to know about the majority of posters on this site and their politics.

As to sites that support abortion, I must live a very sheltered life because I’m trying to think of a single soul who I know who supports abortion. I know some people who respect a woman’s right to choose based on her own religious beliefs and who understand as Little Sheep’s article points out, the complexities of honoring the sacredness of a woman’s life and rights and balancing them with the unborn. But I can’t think of anyone I know who actually favors abortion.
 
GaryTaylor said:
Like all of us and frankly its rather a stretch to assume democrats even represent christian or Catholic at all. What is the paradigm of like points for this comparison as I am very interested in the debate? 🙂
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It’s not a stretch for me at all but then I’ll never be one whose Christianity is so focused primarily on denying women the right to an abortion when her beliefs allow some legal choice and denying gay rights.

Gosh my Christian focus is so much more. And Little Sheep’s article was so good in it’s reach. As it spoke of tolerance, racism, the greed that can spring from excess capitalism, social justice, economic justice to just to name a few.
 
Sy_Noe said:
… I must live a very sheltered life because I’m trying to think of a single soul who I know who supports abortion. I know some people who respect a woman’s right to choose based on her own religious beliefs … But I can’t think of anyone I know who actually favors abortion.
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I couldn’t agree more, Sy. Thank you. The rhetoric is stupefying.
 
Sy_Noe said:
It’s not a stretch for me at all but then I’ll never be one whose Christianity is so focused primarily on denying women the right to an abortion when her beliefs allow some legal choice and denying gay rights.
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I agree that our focus needs to be broader, but I cannot let this illogical statement go unanswered. What does here belief have to do with her rights? Would you also say that those who believe, or believed, in slavery should have the right to own other people? Or that those who believe the husband should have the right to mutilate is daughter’s genitalia, rape his wife and, if needed, perform an honor killing on his wife, should have that right because he belief allows this as his right?

This is the fallacy in being personally against abortion, but not wanting to impose your beliefs on others.
 
pnewton said:
I agree that our focus needs to be broader, but I cannot let this illogical statement go unanswered. What does here belief have to do with her rights? Would you also say that those who believe, or believed, in slavery should have the right to own other people? Or that those who believe the husband should have the right to mutilate is daughter’s genitalia, rape his wife and, if needed, perform an honor killing on his wife, should have that right because he belief allows this as his right?

This is the fallacy in being personally against abortion, but not wanting to impose your beliefs on others.
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Sorry but I don’t mix all those issues into one bowl. There is much more consensus today in regard to slavery and rape and many other issues you wish to throw into the fruit bowl. With regard to abortion there is much less consensus. Even among Christians.
 
Sy_Noe said:
With regard to abortion there is much less consensus. Even among Christians.
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Besides the logical fallacy that truth is a matter of consensus, I propose that there is very little lack of consensus among all of Christendom that abortion is the taking of an innocent life. There is only lack of consensus on whether such taking of innocent human life should be illegal. Personally, I question the faith of anyone where convenience is elevated over life. I agree abortion is not the only topic, but anyone who thinks taking life can be acceptable does not follow the the teaching of Jesus who said such people deserve a millstone tied around their neck and that they be cast into the sea.

It is not theology but sin that has cause Christian diversity in this area.
 
pnewton said:
Besides the logical fallacy that truth is a matter of consensus, I propose that there is very little lack of consensus among all of Christendom that abortion is the taking of an innocent life. There is only lack of consensus on whether such taking of innocent human life should be illegal. Personally, I question the faith of anyone where convenience is elevated over life. I agree abortion is not the only topic, but anyone who thinks taking life can be acceptable does not follow the the teaching of Jesus who said such people deserve a millstone tied around their neck and that they be cast into the sea.

It is not theology but sin that has cause Christian diversity in this area.
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Not every person of faith including of Christian faith shares the Catholic view of truth.
 
The Christian testimony on issues of life and marriage have been constant for 2000 years, really even more when the Abrahamic roots of the faith are remembered.

Modernism and secular leftism is consistent too. There is virtually no difference between an atheist, a Muslim, a Christian, or a Jew of the left on issues of life and marriage, or the economy for that matter.
A secular leftist can drop his or her Christian faith without an iota of change in his or her belief system. He or she will remain birds of the same feather than has bound him or her with like-minded Christians who continue with the churchie aspects

On the other hand, the faiths of Catholics and Protestant and Jews who bind themselves to their religious orthodoxies rather than the orthodoxy of modern secular leftism are very separate from one another.
 
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