Catholic.com presidential poll

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Half of the people on this website are voting for Trump??? I’m just :eek::eek::eek:
 
Well although I wouldn’t agree that the solvency of Social Security is hopeless, we can at least agree that indeed there is not a consensus among faiths, including among Christians, on abortion, on zygotes, embryos, and fetuses, on matters such as ensoulment and on the potential development of a human person, on personhood rights and women’s reproductive rights. Not nearly to the extent that there is on 65 yr olds. Not even close and with no other issue even remotely comparing. For some that might even be all the more reason under civil law to respect a woman’s right to choose as theirs and hers religious freedom dictates.
I don’t think anybody disagrees that SS is insolvent and that without some kind of major fix it will hit the wall. But that wasn’t my point anyway.

You apparently agree with me that some churches do not regard the unborn as human persons. That being the case, some of them would not consider abortion an intrinsic evil. Unfortunate, maybe, but not evil.

You seem agree with me that the Catholic Church does so regard them and that it regards abortion, therefore, as intrinsically evil.

That has been my point all along. It may not be contrary to some Christian sect or other to think abortion is just “one of many” issues like apparent temperament of a candidate. But in Catholicism, it can’t be thought of in that way.

Elective abortion, in Catholicism, is an intrinsic evil; something that’s gravely evil all the time and every time because it is the willful taking of an innocent human life, just like shooting all elderly would be. One must oppose a candidate who espouses it unless his/her opponent espouses an equal or greater evil. Hard to find a evil greater than killing a million human beings annually, and certainly there is none in this election.
 
Yes, I know that.

What amazes me isn’t that. It’s that she would tell voters in California that their voting in their primary will be pointless because she has it won.

True or not, it’s arrogant and offensive.
I simply find it truthful and honest. I’ve even heard Clinton people saying it is fine for Senator Sanders to remain in the race still and I imagine those Californians who wish to still vote for him, will, as will those who wish to support Hillary, will do so. But at the same time it is time for Bernie supporters, I believe, to accept that we ran a good race. Be proud of Bernie and what he stands for. But beyond the time to accept that Hillary has won and that as she says, we have far more that unites us against the Republicans than divides us. And take Bernie’s cue as well and heed his words that he actually has a very steep climb of any hope to surpass SOS Clinton in even pledged delegates. And like I said she has received over 3 million more votes. And take the cue from Senator Sanders that as he repeatedly has said, he will do everything he can to keep someone like Donald Trump from ever becoming President of the United States.
 
Half of the people on this website are voting for Trump??? I’m just :eek::eek::eek:
I’m really not all that shocked on this website. Just because I’ve found posters here lean heavily Republican no matter who it is with the R after his name. And not only on social issues but other issues as well.
 
Half of the people on this website are voting for Trump??? I’m just :eek::eek::eek:
Me too. To me I’m surprised it’s that high. I’d say for a religious forum this one leans left politically.

Actually with Romney being so #nevertrump. And Glenn freaking out I wonder what the Mormon position is on Mormon forums( if they exist)…
 
I don’t think anybody disagrees that SS is insolvent and that without some kind of major fix it will hit the wall. But that wasn’t my point anyway.

You apparently agree with me that some churches do not regard the unborn as human persons. That being the case, some of them would not consider abortion an intrinsic evil. Unfortunate, maybe, but not evil.

You seem agree with me that the Catholic Church does so regard them and that it regards abortion, therefore, as intrinsically evil.

That has been my point all along. It may not be contrary to some Christian sect or other to think abortion is just “one of many” issues like apparent temperament of a candidate. But in Catholicism, it can’t be thought of in that way.

Elective abortion, in Catholicism, is an intrinsic evil; something that’s gravely evil all the time and every time because it is the willful taking of an innocent human life, just like shooting all elderly would be. One must oppose a candidate who espouses it unless his/her opponent espouses an equal or greater evil. Hard to find a evil greater than killing a million human beings annually, and certainly there is none in this election.
Yes Catholicism has things spelled out in black and white and I know it is a source of great peace and comfort for many in their faith walks. And then there are other believers who may prefer some gray and an open lid to the box along their routes when it comes to understanding God and on matters of faith and morals. We’re all striving for the same ultimate destination though.

Catholicism actually has though a host of intrinsic evils on the list beyond the couple of favorites frequently discussed on CAF.

Torture and racism, targeting noncombatants in acts of war, treating workers as a mere means to an end, subjecting workers to inhumane living conditions. treating the poor as disposable are all examples of some of the others included.

But it’s all in the much debated bishops’ citizenship guide. But then the more I see in the very long bishops’ guide, the greater understanding I have as to why Bishop Kicanas may have said voting decisions are never easy and it is not a slam dunk. Even the Pope has said he doesn’t understand counting non negotiables on fingers. And as I’ve heard Cardinal Wuerl say, there is a whole package to the Catholic faith.
 
Me too. To me I’m surprised it’s that high. I’d say for a religious forum this one leans left politically.

Actually with Romney being so #nevertrump. And Glenn freaking out I wonder what the Mormon position is on Mormon forums( if they exist)…
Really? You actually think CAF leans left? Do a search and see who won political polls on CAF 4 yrs ago. Primary polls and then for the general. I haven’t gone back before that but I wouldn’t expect the results would be much different. More likely the trend in the generals would have been Bush over Kerry for instance. And I only need to see all the negativity towards the Clintons and Obamas and John Kerry and Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi to know where the majority of posters on this forum lean politically. And I certainly don’t find it leaning left.
 
Really? You actually think CAF leans left? Do a search and see who won political polls on CAF 4 yrs ago. Hint : Maybe you know if you were here. But his last name started with an “R” and he also had an “R” next to his name. I haven’t gone back before that but I wouldn’t expect the results would be much different. More likely the trend would have been Bush over Kerry for instance. And I only need to see all the negativity towards the Clintons and Obamas and John Kerry and Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi to know where the majority of posters on this forum lean politically. And I certainly don’t find it leaning left.
I think for a religious forum of a religion that would not align itself with the “left” of Americas politics that yes, caf is left of other religious forums. Not saying it isn’t on the right end of the spectrum. Just that in comparison there seems to be a lot more expression of liberal ideas here than in other forums. Religiously and politically.

Over the last few years ss"m" has been debated quite a lot on this forum where there should not really be long threads about such a closed issue. Start s thread on a leftist issue and you will get quite a lot of support. I’ve also noticed far left posters stick around longer than far right posters. Not that there are many of either though.

It’s like saying Hannity is left of beck who is left of savage… It’s all true, and they are all on the right. Caf is the Hannity of the religious forum world…
 
Half of the people on this website are voting for Trump??? I’m just :eek::eek::eek:
I understand the reaction. Let me put this in perspective. If we go back to February, March and even April. Donald Trump had very few supporters here, far less than the general population. Most Catholics here are conservative, true, but they are more pro-life than conservative. A totally solid pro-life liberal would likely change the landscape here, have this same people holding their nose for Trump, holding their nose a voting for that social liberal. As Catholics, we should vote for the poor and innocent, not what best suits our bank account. Most of the people do this.

The only reason Trump is receiving so much support now is, quite frankly, Hillary Clinton. If Trump is is a triple :eek:, then Clinton should rate four, for her consistent and unwavering support and promotion of abortion. This is such a serious evil, worse than slavery and on par with genocide, that her position on it is not only morally indefensible, it makes it very difficult to justify voting for her. No other candidate running but Trump would have even made her worthy of consideration, in my opinion.
 
Me too. To me I’m surprised it’s that high. I’d say for a religious forum this one leans left politically.

Actually with Romney being so #nevertrump. And Glenn freaking out I wonder what the Mormon position is on Mormon forums( if they exist)…
Left? Seriously? This is a very conservative forum.
 
I think for a religious forum of a religion that would not align itself with the “left” of Americas politics that yes, caf is left of other religious forums. Not saying it isn’t on the right end of the spectrum. Just that in comparison there seems to be a lot more expression of liberal ideas here than in other forums. Religiously and politically.

Over the last few years ss"m" has been debated quite a lot on this forum where there should not really be long threads about such a closed issue. Start s thread on a leftist issue and you will get quite a lot of support. I’ve also noticed far left posters stick around longer than far right posters. Not that there are many of either though.

It’s like saying Hannity is left of beck who is left of savage… It’s all true, and they are all on the right. Caf is the Hannity of the religious forum world…
Still confused. Catholicism is not naturally “right” or “left”. But this forum is undoubtedly pretty far “right.”
 
Left? Seriously? This is a very conservative forum.
I think what he’s saying is that from a ‘religious’ website standpoint, this forum is further ‘left’ than most.

From a ‘Catholic’ website standpoint, it certainly leans more conservative than liberal.
 
I don’t remember Bush campaigning about how we needed to waterboard and go beyond waterboarding in 2000, or 2004. I know McCain was against it.

Our choice this election is candidate 1 who is pro-choice and holds morally wrong opinions on many issues, and candidate 2 who is also pro-choice and holds morally wrong opinions on many issues.

Do pro-life people say things like that? Do women in the thousands really write Donald Trump about their wonderful experiences at PP?

Why, why, why can’t it be categorically said, “No funding, they make a profit every year and don’t need funding”

I’m supposed to believe this fellow is pro-life?

Sorry. I can’t do it.

I didn’t want him as a candidate.

adding this link to an article, I think very good:

patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/2016/05/disturbed-by-the-presidential-election-take-my-advice.html
The appointment of one and possibly three Supreme Court justices will shape our country for decades. Yes trump is a new convert to the pro life movement who perhaps does not have all his feet wet yet. But I would think this promise to nominate pro life judges should factor into any vote. Hillary or trump will win. I’ll vote for the guy who has the reasonable chance to advance the pro life agenda. Even if he isn’t pro life enough.

Again, I’d love to hear the name of a perfect Catholic candidate… This mysterious “third” or 223rd party that seems to have so much moral support from conservatives…
 
Hillary has advocated the torture and killing of noncombatants here whole career.
Well maybe not her whole career.

“One thing we know that does not work is offensive, inflammatory rhetoric that demonizes all Muslims,” she said, adding, “Another thing we know that does not work, based on lots of empirical evidence, is torture.”

“Many intelligence, military and law enforcement experts have attested to this fact. It also puts our own troops and increasingly our own civilians at greater risk,” Clinton said.

politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/mar/30/hillary-clinton/evidence-backs-hillary-clinton-claim-torture-count/
 
The appointment of one and possibly three Supreme Court justices will shape our country for decades. Yes trump is a new convert to the pro life movement who perhaps does not have all his feet wet yet. But I would think this promise to nominate pro life judges should factor into any vote. Hillary or trump will win. I’ll vote for the guy who has the reasonable chance to advance the pro life agenda. Even if he isn’t pro life enough.

Again, I’d love to hear the name of a perfect Catholic candidate… This mysterious “third” or 223rd party that seems to have so much moral support from conservatives…
One specific candidate has profited from a very liberal interpretation of eminent domain. His main self proclaimed strength is his business savvy and expertise. Hmm, will he be really willing to appoint conservative judges when doing so will affect his business practices negatively? Or is he going to “negotiate” the nomination process.

Again, there were stronger prolife candidates. The voting for lesser evil didn’t seem to matter much. That’s how come he’s the candidate.
 
I don’t remember Bush campaigning about how we needed to waterboard and go beyond waterboarding in 2000, or 2004. I know McCain was against it.

Our choice this election is candidate 1 who is pro-choice and holds morally wrong opinions on many issues, and candidate 2 who is also pro-choice and holds morally wrong opinions on many issues.

Do pro-life people say things like that? Do women in the thousands really write Donald Trump about their wonderful experiences at PP?

Why, why, why can’t it be categorically said, “No funding, they make a profit every year and don’t need funding”

I’m supposed to believe this fellow is pro-life?

Sorry. I can’t do it.

I didn’t want him as a candidate.

adding this link to an article, I think very good:

patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/2016/05/disturbed-by-the-presidential-election-take-my-advice.html
One specific candidate has profited from a very liberal interpretation of eminent domain. His main self proclaimed strength is his business savvy and expertise. Hmm, will he be really willing to appoint conservative judges when doing so will affect his business practices negatively? Or is he going to “negotiate” the nomination process.

Again, there were stronger prolife candidates. The voting for lesser evil didn’t seem to matter much. That’s how come he’s the candidate.
Luckily I think trump is going to win. So those people who abstain from voting will have the benefits of the pro life appointees. And the moral high ground to rail against him. I know many people who never vote who enjoy this position…
 
Luckily I think trump is going to win. So those people who abstain from voting will have the benefits of the pro life appointees. And the moral high ground to rail against him. I know many people who never vote who enjoy this position…
They can also enjoy the position of having to explain to their children and grandchildren why they didn’t oppose the killing of unborn children when they had the chance.
 
Still confused. Catholicism is not naturally “right” or “left”. But this forum is undoubtedly pretty far “right.”
If one considers opposition to abortion, mandated contraception and homosexual marriage being " to be to the right “you are correct. It is unfortunate that the Democrat party has so embraced the culture of death that their is no place other than"the right” for Faithful Catholics to go
 
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