Catholic.com presidential poll

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Ridgerunner said:
But not the actual teaching. Even your own citations of Church leaders preclude voting for Hillary Clinton. Don’t need interpretation when the words are quite plain.
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I’m don’t that from the USCCB’s Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship, but maybe that’s because I do think that the candidate’s words matter and when Donald Trump says he is going to torture or target noncombatants, I feel a moral obligation to not ignore those words. Again, I’m sure that all Catholics can review the relevant documentation and with well-formed consciences can determine who they should vote for without mine or anyone else’s personal interpretation.
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
Yes many Catholics seem to find themselves in difficult choices when it comes to issues. Thankfully I’m in the minority of Catholics politically. As they keep seeming to vote (as a majority) away from the church… Hence our current president.
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I find this particular presidential choice very disappointing.

I, have voted since 1988. This will be the first time I’m voting third party.

I am also considering becoming a registered Independent, and not a Republican.

I was a Republican for life issues. The Republicans want Trump? I don’t think the life issues mattered much. There were candidates who actually were prolife with prolife backgrounds.

He has no history at all in supporting pro-life issues. I bet he has no clue who is in the New York pro-life community at all.
 
esieffe said:
They both just want to make me hurl. One is corrupt, the other is crazy. Sorry. I know this wont make me any friends.
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The question is which is which? 😉

I kinda feel like I have the choice of drinking poison or sewage. One will kill me and the other might. Neither are pleasant choices.
 
Mary_Gail_36 said:
I find this particular presidential choice very disappointing.

I, have voted since 1988. This will be the first time I’m voting third party.

I am also considering becoming a registered Independent, and not a Republican.

I was a Republican for life issues. The Republicans want Trump? I don’t think the life issues mattered much. There were candidates who actually were prolife with prolife backgrounds.

He has no history at all in supporting pro-life issues. I bet he has no clue who is in the New York pro-life community at all.
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What party is the third party and who is the candidate?
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
Yes many Catholics seem to find themselves in difficult choices when it comes to issues. Thankfully I’m in the minority of Catholics politically. As they keep seeming to vote (as a majority) away from the church… Hence our current president.
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So Trump’s talk on torture or targeting enemy combatants doesn’t concern you.
 
Crossbones said:
So Trump’s talk on torture or targeting enemy combatants doesn’t concern you.
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Not any more than any candidate… Ever.
I voted for bush. Not exactly matching up on torture or social justice…
Neither was Reagan. Neither was the Catholic JFK. Who come to think of it is kinda trump like…
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
Not any more than any candidate… Ever.
I voted for bush. Not exactly matching up on torture or social justice…
Neither was Reagan. Neither was the Catholic JFK. Who come to think of it is kinda trump like…
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So, it just doesn’t weigh into your decision to support him at all?
 
Crossbones said:
So, it just doesn’t weigh into your decision to support him at all?
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That’s not what I said is it?

It’s a small small issue anyway but people love to point it out. Like I stated before, I voted for the original waterboarding administration. So did lots of people. Do I agree as a Catholic with torture. No. But on one hand we have enemies who wish to kill us and on the other the torture of babies on the other side of a two sided election.

I know you wish to debate this. But it is hardly fair given your reluctance to offer your personal choices here…
 
Crossbones said:
So, it just doesn’t weigh into your decision to support him at all?
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Since you earlier mentioned Donald Trump saying he would torture, I would think it would have to enter into any faithful Catholic’s decision since torture is considered an intrinsic evil. It’s making even more sense now as to why Bishop Kicanas stresses the difficult decisions Catholics have to make and that voting decisions are not actually a slam dunk.
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
That’s not what I said is it?

It’s a small small issue anyway but people love to point it out. Like I stated before, I voted for the original waterboarding administration. So did lots of people. Do I agree as a Catholic with torture. No. But on one hand we have enemies who wish to kill us and on the other the torture of babies on the other side of a two sided election.

I know you wish to debate this. But it is hardly fair given your reluctance to offer your personal choices here…
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I’ve said a few times that I do not currently support either candidate, but I don’t think others should follow my lead, but rather determine for themselves how to vote based on studying Catholic teaching.

I am slightly confused on your position. If you are not ok with torture, why do you bring up we have enemies that want to kill us? Is torture ok if enemies want to kill us?
 
Sy_Noe said:
Since you earlier mentioned Donald Trump saying he would torture, I would think it would have to enter into any faithful Catholic’s decision since torture is considered an intrinsic evil. It’s making even more sense now as to why Bishop Kicanas stresses the difficult decisions Catholics have to make and that voting decisions are not actually a slam dunk.
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But from what I’ve seen here on CAF that they will counter that by saying, “well the catechism says this, this, this”. Or, that’s not official church teaching, or well vote for Hillary or sit out and your supporting abortion on demand.
 
Crossbones said:
I’ve said a few times that I do not currently support either candidate, but I don’t think others should follow my lead, but rather determine for themselves how to vote based on studying Catholic teaching.

I am slightly confused on your position. If you are not ok with torture, why do you bring up we have enemies that want to kill us? Is torture ok if enemies want to kill us?
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I don’t know how you can be confused. There are two viable candidates to be president. One of the will be the next president. One, has made a handful of comments about treatment of the enemy in war. The other has made a lifetime of comments about torturng babies. I cannot think of a single candidate that has held the catholic view on every single intrinsic evil.

I’m confused about how this is even a debate!? But knowing that a majority of Catholics are democrats I’m not suprised. Tell me, who is your candidate?
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
I don’t know how you can be confused. There are two viable candidates to be president. One of the will be the next president. One, has made a handful of comments about treatment of the enemy in war. The other has made a lifetime of comments about torturng babies. I cannot think of a single candidate that has held the catholic view on every single intrinsic evil.
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I’m confused because you said “Do I agree as a Catholic with torture. No. But on one hand we have enemies who wish to kill us…” which seem to imply that you might think torture is ok if your enemies are trying to kill us. That’s what I don’t understand.
I’m confused about how this is even a debate!? But knowing that a majority of Catholics are democrats I’m not suprised. Tell me, who is your candidate?
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I said that I support neither major party candidate.
 
chero23 said:
But from what I’ve seen here on CAF that they will counter that by saying, “well the catechism says this, this, this”. Or, that’s not official church teaching, or well vote for Hillary or sit out and your supporting abortion on demand.
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So the counter is a Catholic must vote for a man with the temperament of Donald Trump to be Commander in Chief with his finger on the button? And with his statements about Latinos and Muslims? Since voting for Hillary from what many here say is not allowed. And by sitting out or voting for someone who has no chance of becoming President, you are not having a say on whether a Reality TV star with no government experience whatsoever or a former First Lady, US Senator and SOS becomes President? Yet one of them is going to be the next POTUS.
 
Sy_Noe said:
So the counter is a Catholic must vote for a man with the temperament of Donald Trump to be Commander in Chief with his finger on the button? And with his statements about Latinos and Muslims? Since voting for Hillary from what many here say is not allowed. And by sitting out or voting for someone who has no chance of becoming President, you are not having a say on whether a Reality TV star with no government experience whatsoever or a former First Lady, US Senator and SOS becomes President? Yet one of them is going to be the next POTUS.
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In one word… Yeap

But I’ve stated this and if I die the day after the election and God asks me, I will tell him, neither of the candidates showed a through commitment for humanity.
 
Crossbones said:
I’m confused because you said “Do I agree as a Catholic with torture. No. But on one hand we have enemies who wish to kill us…” which seem to imply that you might think torture is ok if your enemies are trying to kill us. That’s what I don’t understand.

I said that I support neither major party candidate.
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Who do you support then?
 
Crossbones said:
I haven’t decided yet. I have to study all the candidates and I have to determine if they are on the ballot in my state.
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Sounds like something you could find out by day tomorrow…

Let’s us know what you find.

As I’ve said. I proudly support my candidate… Bumper sticker and all!😃
 
chero23 said:
But from what I’ve seen here on CAF that they will counter that by saying, “well the catechism says this, this, this”. Or, that’s not official church teaching, or well vote for Hillary or sit out and your supporting abortion on demand.
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Actually we will counter with direct quotes from members of the Magestriun and Vatican documents. What we will get in reply is speculation as to what the Bishop " meant" when he was interviewed or why quotes from members of the magisterium are just there personal opinion.
 
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