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AlanFromWichita
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Penny Plain:
Thanks for asking.
Oh, you meant the drink? Same answer.
Alan
Stirred. Never shaken.
Thanks for asking.
Oh, you meant the drink? Same answer.
Alan
Catholic conservatism on the rise as priest refuses funeral for 'sinner'
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AlanFromWichita
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That does sound a little bit surface-judgmental, doesn’t it?
Truth be told, that’s actually the system we have. There are a whole lot of people who voted against the gay marriage amendment in Kansas, of whom I apparently don’t know of any. Gosh, I could rail against gays every time I get a chance and make nasty comments about them and offensive jokes, then go in secret and vote against that amendment.
Would you believe I voted against the anti-gay marriage amendment if I told you that I did? It passed overwhelmingly like I suspected and like I wished would happen.
What I finally figured out, and are now telling my kids, is that worldly discipline systems, even when administered by the Catholic school, are all based on observation and physical evidence and presumption on the basis of authorities, who hold themselves the final arbiter. It is never the mean kid who keeps poking the one in front of him in line in the back. When the kid in front of him, nearly in tears with pain while he tries to remain quiet, finally turns around and says “stop that,” that gets the teacher’s attention. The teacher looks around and sees the victim, acting as objective perp of the crime of looking around backwards in line and yelling. The antagonist, of course, is standing there looking like an angel and says in complete honesty, “I didn’t say anything to him at all. He just turned around and started yelling.” The victim begins to protest, “but he…” when the teacher asserts compassionate guidance, “no excuses young man, I saw you acting up and I know that you know the rules.”
Guess who gets punished? The one who blatantly sinned by breaking the school rules about lines plus bearing “virtual” false witness against his neighbor but knew how to play the game – or the one who tried his best to be good but failed to avoid sin when sufficiently antagonized and tortured?
This is why discipline systems run by humans can only limit certain particularly dangerous behavior, and cannot instill morality by themselves. The more serious the punishment, the more serious the cat-and-mouse game it becomes. Discipline and human attempts at upholding the law fail. Sometimes they not only fail to teach good, but reinforce bad behavior such as the kid in the story above, who by the way is NOT hypothetical. “Love never fails.” (from 1 Cor 13:8)
Proverbs 27:
This is why it’s better strategy to heap praise on a fool than to try to crush him.
You see, that was my strategy in giving fix a complement. Since I could not humiliate him directly, I had to try to exalt him so he would be humbled as a side effect.
You have to be kidding if you think I was being sincere about being nice. Or am I so full of nonsense you don’t know when I’m sincere. If you think that, then you are beginning on your road to living a non-judgmental life as you find that trying to make a “right” judgment like Christ challenged the pharisees to do, is futile from a purely intellectual standpoint. He knew they wouldn’t know a right judgment if they saw it, but they didn’t.
Alan
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shannon_e
Guest
[for the sake of this point: CAF rule that was broken is “grave matter”]
In the world of loving absolutists, we would teach him that he broke a law. We would inform him that in the future, if he breaks this rule with full knowledge and intent, then he his actions will bring about consequences.
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AlanFromWichita
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shannon e said:
That sounds like a relatively good idea!
Alan
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felra
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That is exactly why we put limits on those “fools” have their own and others destruction in mind, or out of mind but the same in effect. It takes courage to speak the truth in love, to go against the prevailing politically/culturally correct views and movements. This again is why relativism fails.
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buffalo
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I say fix does not exist therefore he couldn’t have called you a troll. I am happy with my truth as I see it.That’s interesting. You seem to have a very difficult time with this fairly short post. I’d like to see where I am wrong so I can fix it. Let’s see. Here was the post I think you’re talking about. Is it the same one you’re talking about?
Are these the statement you are evaluating? Two of these four statements are false? Lemme check each one:
Which of these two contradictions to my previous statements are true? I’m not sure which two your talking about.
- Calling me a “troll” was not a violation of forum rules.
- In the world of moral absolutists, we should let him be.
- In the world of loving relativists, he should suffer the penalty.
- It is OK to discuss moderator actions on CAF.
Are you referring to a different post?
Alan
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Ani_Ibi
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Yes, relativism can be cynical. It denies commonality between human beings: you have your truth, I have my truth, let’s go our separate ways. But do relativists expect us to go our separate ways? Nah. They expect us to go their separate ways. In order to get us to go their separate ways, matters are claimed to be settled by consensus through democratic process. Are they? Nah. Rhetoric only. Matters are settled by shortcircuiting community and exercising force by means of diluting meaning and allowing participation on an ‘insider’ basis only.
A bit of observation reveals that all relativists are not equal; some relativists are more equal than others. So it follows that all truth is not equal; some truth is more equal than others. In practice, therefore, the truth of a relativist’s truth is determined in an arbitrary (or absolutist) way. If relativism is really relative, why do they need to spindoctor what they do? Because relativism is about the supremacy of the individual over the community.
While it is self-contradictory for a relativist to actually be an absolutist, there is no harm done on this count. A bit of observation will reveal that relativists are really absolutists in some kind of politically correct disguise. The harm comes in the method of wielding the absolutist agenda of the relativist. By what authority is this achieved? Ah! There’s the rub.
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buffalo
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Ani Ibi:
Exactly! They instend their relativism to be the new truth. Ironic isn’t it?
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fix
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Just for the record, I have never called Alan, or anyone here, a troll. I believe he was referring to another poster.
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buffalo
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Fix, by my authority you don’t exist. So why do you continue to post? And since you don’t exist I am now deleting my memory banks of all of your nonexistent posts, and trying to reconstruct this thread as the revisionist historians do.
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fix
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I guess I cannot say that the above is true or not as that would be judging you and any negative judgment on my part my drive you further away from the truth, so I think your living in error is the will of God.Fix, by my authority you don’t exist. So why do you continue to post? And since you don’t exist I am now deleting my memory banks of all of your nonexistent posts, and trying to reconstruct this thread as the revisionist historians do.
Also, if I did write the above it may be authentic in the sense I intended it to be authentic, unless in your perception it is unauthentic because it makes you feel ill at ease.
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Ani_Ibi
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It was estesbob in post 174 on page 2. And it was in response to A from W’s own detailed admission of mischief. It would have been more charitable to address A from W’s behaviour as ‘trollish’ instead of addressing A from W as a ‘troll’, but this is all moot since the accusation was against fix not estesbob. It’s history. Let’s move on.
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buffalo
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I knew it - you are a virtual reality. And the absolute truth is that judging me would turn me away from the truth. You have no right to impose your intolerant truth on me. I will not submit to your authority for to me you don’t even exist. I will not accept you attempts at what you claim is charity through fraternal correction. Who are you to judge me? Accept me as I am.
Alan - are you watching all this? - relativism played out real time on CAF.
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Ani_Ibi
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But buffalo! :crying: What do fix’s non-existent posts have to do with fix’s non-existence? Fix doesn’t have to exist to have posts. Camu doesn’t exist, but I am reading L’etranger with one eye as I type. Revisionist historians?Fix, by my authority you don’t exist. So why do you continue to post? And since you don’t exist I am now deleting my memory banks of all of your nonexistent posts, and trying to reconstruct this thread as the revisionist historians do.
Reconstruct this thread? Hhhhmmm. Sounds like fun. Can anybody play? :bounce:
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Ani_Ibi
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Whoah! Veritably Shakespearean my dear buffalo. Is there a Part 2? :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them?
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buffalo
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Ani Ibi:
To play you have to be a professional. Your resume must include several books or articles where you have successfully revised history through today’s lens and showed that more that 1 million have swallowed it hook line and sinker.But buffalo! :crying: What do fix’s non-existent posts have to do with fix’s non-existence? Fix doesn’t have to exist to have posts. Camu doesn’t exist, but I am reading L’etranger with one eye as I type. Revisionist historians?
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Ani_Ibi
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Ye olde liste of persecuted books by Ani Ibiishikaa:
- He shoots, he scores! Metaphor and metaphysics in hockey
forward by Don Cherry - The New Separatism: The secession of our elected officials
forward by Jean Chretien - L’etranger: Irish Catholicism under the Family Compact
forward by William Butler Yeats - Kumbaya: The New Catholicism of Paul Martin
forward by Bishop Spong - How I spent my summer holiday or 32 names for snow
forward by The Tragically Hip - Caffe Latte and Neo-conservatism: Canadian multilateralism in a world under siege
forward by Jane Fonda - The Idiot: A millenium look at the Kings College calendar at the University of Western Ontario
forward by Gerald Killan
see 2004 Telephone Book (or Annuaire) for Ottawa/Hull
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buffalo
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Ani Ibi said:
Quite an impressive accomplishment. Since these seem to be relative titles, I will ask for help from other posters to determine the truth by consensus. If consensus is reached, you are in!
One of your elite club members would be the guy who sold rocks, and convinced the buyers they were actual pets. There are a few US politicians, clergy and media types in the club, too.
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Ani_Ibi
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Much obliged. I neglected to mention my new book, as yet awaiting release this November:
Pet rocks: Nafta and The New Ontology, a collection of essays
forward by Arnold Schwartneggar
essays by Edward Kennedy, Jerry Springer, Christianne Amanpour, Cardinal Levada, Tom Cruise, Tammy Faye Baker, Chief Big Pontiac, Fr Pavone, Sister Joan, and Albert Camu
I am over the moon that you have invested your authority into a committee. I was secretly hoping that you would. The very idea of seeing consensus in action is a thrill – a real thrill. I will start strongarming committee members immediately. Er, who might those be?
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buffalo
Guest
Ani Ibi:
I think you should start with AlanfromWichita. He can bring many relativists with him. A little investment for you with a big payoff.
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